Posted:
#201
Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:
Science will NEVER EVER prove or disprove God.
and you know this, how?
0
Proof that there is no god.
Posted:
#202
Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:
But in the end (heat death), it wont matter....
Just do whatever gives me enjoyment, if that is raping little kids, then so be it.....After the heat death, it wont matter if i raped little kids or helped the needy and fed the poor..
Its all in different...
Absolutely. However, we live in a society. Therefore, if what gives you enjoyment happens to be illegal or socially unacceptable in the current society you live in, you may be punished or reprimanded by that society. So, if, as you say, you choose to rape little kids because you enjoy it, regardless of whether you say it is right or wrong, if it is illegal (and it is), and you are caught, you will be punished. If you get away with it, then so be it. Most people would say you are a bad person if they had known about it, but in this hypothetical scenario where nothing happens to you, no one knows, no one says anything, and you go on living your life thinking you're a good person or you're a bad person who got away with something or whatever you wanna think about yourself.
As for you (and everyone) personally, after you die, it absolutely does not matter what you did during your life. It only matters to the people it may still affect. Eventually, everyone you affected will die and as you correctly stated, the universe itself will essentially die. At that point, we can assume there will be nothing. You and I will be nothing. Nothing we did will matter anymore.
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Posted:
#204
Quote Originally Posted by KittyKatz286:
Absolutely. However, we live in a society. Therefore, if what gives you enjoyment happens to be illegal or socially unacceptable in the current society you live in, you may be punished or reprimanded by that society. So, if, as you say, you choose to rape little kids because you enjoy it, regardless of whether you say it is right or wrong, if it is illegal (and it is), and you are caught, you will be punished. If you get away with it, then so be it. Most people would say you are a bad person if they had known about it, but in this hypothetical scenario where nothing happens to you, no one knows, no one says anything, and you go on living your life thinking you're a good person or you're a bad person who got away with something or whatever you wanna think about yourself.
As for you (and everyone) personally, after you die, it absolutely does not matter what you did during your life. It only matters to the people it may still affect. Eventually, everyone you affected will die and as you correctly stated, the universe itself will essentially die. At that point, we can assume there will be nothing. You and I will be nothing. Nothing we did will matter anymore.
So then life really comes down to, "if you enjoy it, can get away with it, then do it"....If you are very wealthy and powerful, then the chances are that you will get away with it......
If i enjoy raping little kids, can get away with it, i get enjoyment, ruin someone elses life, then who cares. I shouldnt care how that other person feels.....sure in this lifetime i have ruined someone elses life, but who cares, we will all die and that is the end of the that...
One of the implications of atheism, if i get enjoyment out of it, AND can get away with it, then why not do it...It is all absolutely meaningless in the end...all indifferent in the end if i rape little kids, put a baby in the oven, help the poor, feed the hungry, help old ladies or kill old ladies, its all absolutely meaningless, sure their might be a short term legacy issue, but in the end, who cares....
We are nothing more than pond scum under atheism, we have no instrinsic value, if you think you do then you are delusional...
I am glad i am not an atheist.....
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Posted:
#206
Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:
So then life really comes down to, "if you enjoy it, can get away with it, then do it"....If you are very wealthy and powerful, then the chances are that you will get away with it......
If i enjoy raping little kids, can get away with it, i get enjoyment, ruin someone elses life, then who cares. I shouldnt care how that other person feels.....sure in this lifetime i have ruined someone elses life, but who cares, we will all die and that is the end of the that...
One of the implications of atheism, if i get enjoyment out of it, AND can get away with it, then why not do it...It is all absolutely meaningless in the end...all indifferent in the end if i rape little kids, put a baby in the oven, help the poor, feed the hungry, help old ladies or kill old ladies, its all absolutely meaningless, sure their might be a short term legacy issue, but in the end, who cares....
We are nothing more than pond scum under atheism, we have no instrinsic value, if you think you do then you are delusional...
I am glad i am not an atheist.....
I partially disagree. I cannot speak for everyone else, but I do not believe it is ok to rape little kids or kill people. I have a set of morals and I try my best to live by them. Unfortunately, I cannot control other people.
You stated we have no intrinsic value. That is 100% correct. Human beings have no intrinsic value. Nothing on this planet has any intrinsic value. Everything is relative.
As for your next statement: "If the Christian God exists, then he is OUR God." That statement is also 100% true. However, since there is no proof that he exists, I will continue under the assumption he does not.
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Posted:
#207
Quote Originally Posted by KittyKatz286:
I partially disagree. I cannot speak for everyone else, but I do not believe it is ok to rape little kids or kill people. I have a set of morals and I try my best to live by them. Unfortunately, I cannot control other people.
Hey, you said it yourself, morals are simply subjective. Therefore, you disagreeing with me is nothing more than you saying Vanilla is better than chocolate. None of us right / none of us are wrong. It is just one opinion over the other. But saying rape is wrong is not absolutely wrong
You stated we have no intrinsic value. That is 100% correct. Human beings have no intrinsic value. Nothing on this planet has any intrinsic value. Everything is relative.
Thats right, under atheism, we are nothing more than pond scum.
As for your next statement: "If the Christian God exists, then he is OUR God." That statement is also 100% true. However, since there is no proof that he exists, I will continue under the assumption he does not.
That statement isnt about proof. If we are going to go down proof. You will have to disprove that Jesus wasnt who he said he was. Or show what happened in the NT never happened. But that is another topic for another day.
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Posted:
#208
RJ,
nobody should push any religion on anybody. If a person doesnt want to believe in God, thats their choice.
I believe in God, but that doesnt mean i have to believe in that reliogion as it is today.
The fact still is thou, no matter how you believe there is no God, there is zero way for man to prove which side is right, its just impossible.
Thats why i never say to people am right and they are wrong, because nobody knows whos right and i mean nobody.
Scientists can discover all the particles they want, but that still doesnt prove God didnt create them or he did create them. Thats all i have been saying
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Posted:
#210
Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:
They didnt even have to read it....Society was changing rapidly. You could almost say that Christianity was polarizing society to an extent. People were changing their lives based on what happened. You didnt have to read the Gospels to see what was happening...
Dare i say, their would be some skeptics who would have to have investigated what was going on and logically If all what had happened was BS, then not only would this have been passed down verbally, but somewhere along the line, would have been documented to prevent furture generations from following this and in effect save future generations.
Yet, we see nothing. I personally find this very very strange considering how much what happened transformed sociey.
You also fail to understand how few documents have survived over the years, due to being decayed, lost or destroyed. And considering the Christians were in charge of the Western World for 1500 years, and document remotely critical of Christianity would have been destroyed.
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Posted:
#211
Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:
Here is a question for non believers...
A central part of our Christian belief is the fall. Ie, mans rejection of God. Since this, humans and their gene code have been corrupted, ie, our gene code is not perfect, hence diseases etc etc.
Humans since have come out with all sorts of deformities since ...
Science has also made many cures to these diseases....
Hypothetically, if a part of the gene that was repsonsible for believing in God was found, and you (non believers) found that yours was corrupted (as any other gene code could), and science found a drug to cure this, resulting in you believing...would you take it?
You have no idea whatsoever how the gene code works.
Here are some facts for you to consider:
1) Humans evolved from apes.
2) The same kinds of diseases that are in man are also in apes, and many other mammals.
3) Primitive man suffered from more and worse kinds of diseases than modern man.
4) A species gene code is not carried by one member of the species, it is carried collectively by all members.
5) Belief in God is not genetic
It is fine for you to have fundamental Christian beliefs. But don't mix it with science, because you it makes you look like a fool. IE, you can't take bits and pieces of science and mingle that with your religious stories to make arguments (corrupted gene code from eating the Apple)
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Posted:
#212
I partially disagree. I cannot speak for everyone else, but I do not believe it is ok to rape little kids or kill people. I have a set of morals and I try my best to live by them. Unfortunately, I cannot control other people.
Hey, you said it yourself, morals are simply subjective. Therefore, you disagreeing with me is nothing more than you saying Vanilla is better than chocolate. None of us right / none of us are wrong. It is just one opinion over the other. But saying rape is wrong is not absolutely wrong
Correct - although the opinion that rape is wrong is a very widespread opinion. Thus, your hypothetical opinion that rape is ok will get you in trouble in our society.
You stated we have no intrinsic value. That is 100% correct. Human beings have no intrinsic value. Nothing on this planet has any intrinsic value. Everything is relative.
Thats right, under atheism, we are nothing more than pond scum.
False. We are thinking beings capable of rational thought. Pond scum cannot think rationally. After we die, our effects on each other and our planet are felt far more than pond scum. However, when the universe dies and there is nothing left, whether we were humans, dogs, pond scum, or solar systems, becomes irrelevant.
As for your next statement: "If the Christian God exists, then he is OUR God." That statement is also 100% true. However, since there is no proof that he exists, I will continue under the assumption he does not.
That statement isnt about proof. If we are going to go down proof. You will have to disprove that Jesus wasnt who he said he was. Or show what happened in the NT never happened. But that is another topic for another day.
Once again, if science finds proof that god exists, I will change my position. I can promise you that.
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Posted:
#213
Quote Originally Posted by cd329:
RJ,
nobody should push any religion on anybody. If a person doesnt want to believe in God, thats their choice.
I believe in God, but that doesnt mean i have to believe in that reliogion as it is today.
The fact still is thou, no matter how you believe there is no God, there is zero way for man to prove which side is right, its just impossible.
Thats why i never say to people am right and they are wrong, because nobody knows whos right and i mean nobody.
Scientists can discover all the particles they want, but that still doesnt prove God didnt create them or he did create them. Thats all i have been saying
That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.
If all religious people were like you there'd be no problem.
Unfortunately this is not the case.
Where religion is atrocities take place - Kabul, Belfast, Beirut, Yugoslavia, Teheran etc.
Or when the Catholic Church forbids a HIV-ridden Africa the use of condoms. It's god's will, eh? Just put a freaking rubber on it and you will almost be 100% safe.
Religious people have been fighting different kinds of vaccines, denying their children blood transfusions etc.
Many religious leaders are against any kind of medicine as it undermines their position of power.
Religion is terror.
So yeah, if only all religious people were like you, I'd stop fighting religion.
Until then....
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Posted:
#214
Quote Originally Posted by cd329:
RJ,
nobody should push any religion on anybody. If a person doesnt want to believe in God, thats their choice.
I believe in God, but that doesnt mean i have to believe in that reliogion as it is today.
The fact still is thou, no matter how you believe there is no God, there is zero way for man to prove which side is right, its just impossible.
Thats why i never say to people am right and they are wrong, because nobody knows whos right and i mean nobody.
Scientists can discover all the particles they want, but that still doesnt prove God didnt create them or he did create them. Thats all i have been saying
My gal is Catholic and we debate God and religion often (more often than she would like). She just has trouble wrapping her mind around the fact that it's impossible to know. It's like thinking outside of the box about this subject is uncomfortable to her. Same with my sister in law. Any doubt causes anxiety.
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Posted:
#215
Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:
Again, here you go again trying to apply laws of our naturalistic realm to that outside it...
Why dont you ask, "how can God go without food and water for so long? no being can survive that long without food and water"...You keep equivocating...
Actually, not so much. Even if God is outside the realm of naturalism, he had to come into that realm (the supernatural) from somewhere. No?
And why couldn't earth have came to be the same way?
Supernatural or not, something that exists has to have an origin.
0
Posted:
#216
Quote Originally Posted by HutchEmAll:
Actually, not so much. Even if God is outside the realm of naturalism, he had to come into that realm (the supernatural) from somewhere. No?
And why couldn't earth have came to be the same way?
Supernatural or not, something that exists has to have an origin.
Rostos also likes to try and project a level of intelligence. Example: using the word "equivocate." However, even after posts with definitions from the dictionary as well as concrete examples, he still does not understand what the word means.
I don't know about you, but if a human being cannot comprehend the meaning of a word through definitions and examples of that word used in a sentence, then the intelligence of that person has to seriously come into question, thus putting a damper on the credibility of anything else that person says.
0
Posted:
#217
Quote Originally Posted by KittyKatz286:
Rostos also likes to try and project a level of intelligence. Example: using the word "equivocate." However, even after posts with definitions from the dictionary as well as concrete examples, he still does not understand what the word means.
I don't know about you, but if a human being cannot comprehend the meaning of a word through definitions and examples of that word used in a sentence, then the intelligence of that person has to seriously come into question, thus putting a damper on the credibility of anything else that person says.
I ask people all the time: "What is the origin of God?" The answer is always, "He just is." Why couldn't the universe be "just is?"
Why does the universe need a start and a stop point, but God doesn't? I don't understand.
0
Posted:
#218
Quote Originally Posted by HutchEmAll:
I ask people all the time: "What is the origin of God?" The answer is always, "He just is." Why couldn't the universe be "just is?"
Why does the universe need a start and a stop point, but God doesn't? I don't understand.
Rostos' argument is that god exists in the supernatural realm which may not operate using the same laws in the natural world. But that argument fails because it presumes the existence of a supernatural realm in the first place, to which the question you just posed still applies.
The bottom line is SOMETHING, had to ALWAYS be. It can just as easily be the universe itself as opposed to a higher being.
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Posted:
#219
Quote Originally Posted by KittyKatz286:
Rostos also likes to try and project a level of intelligence. Example: using the word "equivocate." However, even after posts with definitions from the dictionary as well as concrete examples, he still does not understand what the word means.
I don't know about you, but if a human being cannot comprehend the meaning of a word through definitions and examples of that word used in a sentence, then the intelligence of that person has to seriously come into question, thus putting a damper on the credibility of anything else that person says.
and he has a problem with spelling even after you correct him
heavanI'll give him this much, he sticks to his guns, even when he is wrong...
0
Posted:
#220
Quote Originally Posted by KittyKatz286:
Rostos' argument is that god exists in the supernatural realm which may not operate using the same laws in the natural world. But that argument fails because it presumes the existence of a supernatural realm in the first place, to which the question you just posed still applies.
The bottom line is SOMETHING, had to ALWAYS be. It can just as easily be the universe itself as opposed to a higher being.
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Posted:
#222
Quote Originally Posted by thorpe:
You also fail to understand how few documents have survived over the years, due to being decayed, lost or destroyed. And considering the Christians were in charge of the Western World for 1500 years, and document remotely critical of Christianity would have been destroyed.
If the Gospels can suvive that time fame then i give counter claims evey chance as well.
I am not just talking about Atheists at the time, but the Roman empire as well. Remember ,they were against Christ as well and extremely powerful.If what was claimed never hapened, dont you think it would have been put to bed by the powerul Roman empire at the time and documented? Yet, their is only silence....Strange
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Posted:
#223
Quote Originally Posted by thorpe:
You have no idea whatsoever how the gene code works.
Here are some facts for you to consider:
1) Humans evolved from apes.
2) The same kinds of diseases that are in man are also in apes, and many other mammals.
3) Primitive man suffered from more and worse kinds of diseases than modern man.
4) A species gene code is not carried by one member of the species, it is carried collectively by all members.
5) Belief in God is not genetic
It is fine for you to have fundamental Christian beliefs. But don't mix it with science, because you it makes you look like a fool. IE, you can't take bits and pieces of science and mingle that with your religious stories to make arguments (corrupted gene code from eating the Apple)
Of course disease is in apes and other animals, this doest mean that prior to the fall (my belief),that animals didnt have perfect genetic codes....and after the fall (my belief), they became corrupted.
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Posted:
#224
Quote Originally Posted by KittyKatz286:
I partially disagree. I cannot speak for everyone else, but I do not believe it is ok to rape little kids or kill people. I have a set of morals and I try my best to live by them. Unfortunately, I cannot control other people.
Hey, you said it yourself, morals are simply subjective. Therefore, you disagreeing with me is nothing more than you saying Vanilla is better than chocolate. None of us right / none of us are wrong. It is just one opinion over the other. But saying rape is wrong is not absolutely wrong
Correct - although the opinion that rape is wrong is a very widespread opinion. Thus, your hypothetical opinion that rape is ok will get you in trouble in our society.
You stated we have no intrinsic value. That is 100% correct. Human beings have no intrinsic value. Nothing on this planet has any intrinsic value. Everything is relative.
Thats right, under atheism, we are nothing more than pond scum.
False. We are thinking beings capable of rational thought. Pond scum cannot think rationally. After we die, our effects on each other and our planet are felt far more than pond scum. However, when the universe dies and there is nothing left, whether we were humans, dogs, pond scum, or solar systems, becomes irrelevant.
As for your next statement: "If the Christian God exists, then he is OUR God." That statement is also 100% true. However, since there is no proof that he exists, I will continue under the assumption he does not.
That statement isnt about proof. If we are going to go down proof. You will have to disprove that Jesus wasnt who he said he was. Or show what happened in the NT never happened. But that is another topic for another day.
Once again, if science finds proof that god exists, I will change my position. I can promise you that.
I knew you couldnt apply the implications of Atheism to your every day life.
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Posted:
#225
Quote Originally Posted by HutchEmAll:
Actually, not so much. Even if God is outside the realm of naturalism, he had to come into that realm (the supernatural) from somewhere. No?
And why couldn't earth have came to be the same way?
Supernatural or not, something that exists has to have an origin.
That last statement shows that you keep on applying our laws of logic in our real to that outside it? Why do you keep on doing it?
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