I understand if you're a fan of any of the remaining teams how your opinion would be jaded ....
Before I say anything else , I've loved playing basketball since 1980 ....
In my opinion the rule changes and style of play has destroyed the game for us viewers ...Everything is a foul , playing physical defense is nearly impossible...A common foul from 30 years ago might lead to incarceration today .... So many blowouts determined by who hits their 3's and who doesn't...
As a current coach of my middle schooler's team it is nearly impossible to break the bad habits of what the kids are viewing ( shoot a 3's with your hand arched in the air , never following your shot ) ...
Thoughts , has the NBA ruined it s product ???
BEST OF HEALTH, HAPPINESS,WEALTH, BLESSINGS and LUCK TO ALL !!
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To remove first post, remove entire topic.
Just curious what others think ??
I understand if you're a fan of any of the remaining teams how your opinion would be jaded ....
Before I say anything else , I've loved playing basketball since 1980 ....
In my opinion the rule changes and style of play has destroyed the game for us viewers ...Everything is a foul , playing physical defense is nearly impossible...A common foul from 30 years ago might lead to incarceration today .... So many blowouts determined by who hits their 3's and who doesn't...
As a current coach of my middle schooler's team it is nearly impossible to break the bad habits of what the kids are viewing ( shoot a 3's with your hand arched in the air , never following your shot ) ...
The biggest issue is what era a person grew up watching the NBA. Take for example 60, s 70, s. A center 2 forwards and 2 guards was standard.
You could only pivot on one foot and traveling and Double dribbling were always called. Some may say the game has evolved or changed with the times.
I do not see any player in the NBA today that could guard Wilt Chamberlin. I do not see any player in the game today as fast as Allen Iverson Although I do not see a player from the bygone era that could shoot as well as Stephan Curry.
The entertainment product being sports, movies, TV etc changes all the time. Being due to the fact that the people in charge move on and new younger people come in with different view points. Good topic to discuss.
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@DoubleUp4Life
The biggest issue is what era a person grew up watching the NBA. Take for example 60, s 70, s. A center 2 forwards and 2 guards was standard.
You could only pivot on one foot and traveling and Double dribbling were always called. Some may say the game has evolved or changed with the times.
I do not see any player in the NBA today that could guard Wilt Chamberlin. I do not see any player in the game today as fast as Allen Iverson Although I do not see a player from the bygone era that could shoot as well as Stephan Curry.
The entertainment product being sports, movies, TV etc changes all the time. Being due to the fact that the people in charge move on and new younger people come in with different view points. Good topic to discuss.
I agree to an extent. I prefer the old NBA but for one, the athletes have changed. There were guys in the NBA 30 years ago that would be Maytag repairmen today. Players are lighter, slimmer, and finesse based. Player development is different. In the old days, if you were the tall fat kid, they stuck you down low. Today, if you're tall and fat, you're probably not playing. Tall and skinny, you're bringing the ball up and shooting jumpers. Guys drill dribbling. Shooting. They aren't in the weight room as much. They aren't gaining muscle. Injuries are higher. Game is faster and finesse based. Then you add in analytics that say to shoot a bunch of 3's and you have today's NBA. No bigs. Tons of 3's.
R.I.P. #94 MARSHAWN KNEELAND - DC4L
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I agree to an extent. I prefer the old NBA but for one, the athletes have changed. There were guys in the NBA 30 years ago that would be Maytag repairmen today. Players are lighter, slimmer, and finesse based. Player development is different. In the old days, if you were the tall fat kid, they stuck you down low. Today, if you're tall and fat, you're probably not playing. Tall and skinny, you're bringing the ball up and shooting jumpers. Guys drill dribbling. Shooting. They aren't in the weight room as much. They aren't gaining muscle. Injuries are higher. Game is faster and finesse based. Then you add in analytics that say to shoot a bunch of 3's and you have today's NBA. No bigs. Tons of 3's.
Whole game is 'evolving' but not sure it's a good thing. Athletes are more valuable than actual basketball players. That's why I enjoyed the Magic/Bird/Jordan era so much more. True rivalries, heated rivalries. College fell apart for me about 5 years ago or so. Jay Bilas has one of my favorite quotes about when they shortened the shot clock "If a team can't get a good shot in 40 seconds, how are they gonna do it in 30?"
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Whole game is 'evolving' but not sure it's a good thing. Athletes are more valuable than actual basketball players. That's why I enjoyed the Magic/Bird/Jordan era so much more. True rivalries, heated rivalries. College fell apart for me about 5 years ago or so. Jay Bilas has one of my favorite quotes about when they shortened the shot clock "If a team can't get a good shot in 40 seconds, how are they gonna do it in 30?"
Nba has definitely destroyed its product from what it was in earlier times. Their ratings are already weak and if it weren’t for gambling imagine what their ratings would be. Refs just have too much say in directions games go. The bonus needs to be addressed becuase it’s incredibly silly. Putting teams in the bonus with 7 8 mins left in a quarter lol maybe alter the 3 point line to get rid of the corner 3 point shot. Its way to easy of a shot to be worth 3 points. Guys just stand their and camp out all game. Somethings gotta be done because this just isnt very engaging at all.
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Nba has definitely destroyed its product from what it was in earlier times. Their ratings are already weak and if it weren’t for gambling imagine what their ratings would be. Refs just have too much say in directions games go. The bonus needs to be addressed becuase it’s incredibly silly. Putting teams in the bonus with 7 8 mins left in a quarter lol maybe alter the 3 point line to get rid of the corner 3 point shot. Its way to easy of a shot to be worth 3 points. Guys just stand their and camp out all game. Somethings gotta be done because this just isnt very engaging at all.
Overall more skill today than in the 80s. If NBA wants to change rules to increase scoring then so be it. They only do well if people watch
thats extremely debatable. The skill you’re referring to is mainly the 3 point shot. A specific skill set not overall skills. Let alone rules changes allow the perception that players are more skilled and faster because they drive the lane unable to be hanf checked let alone the traveling they allow that they used to call such as palming etc. They are allowed to get away with way more and defense isn’t emphasized as much. That doesn’t mean humans have evolved to be more skilled athletically in the past 15 years.
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Quote Originally Posted by wchen27:
Overall more skill today than in the 80s. If NBA wants to change rules to increase scoring then so be it. They only do well if people watch
thats extremely debatable. The skill you’re referring to is mainly the 3 point shot. A specific skill set not overall skills. Let alone rules changes allow the perception that players are more skilled and faster because they drive the lane unable to be hanf checked let alone the traveling they allow that they used to call such as palming etc. They are allowed to get away with way more and defense isn’t emphasized as much. That doesn’t mean humans have evolved to be more skilled athletically in the past 15 years.
It doesn't even seem like they call traveling anymore.Everytime Zach Lavine drives to the hoop,it looks like he's participating in the triple jump in olympic track.
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It doesn't even seem like they call traveling anymore.Everytime Zach Lavine drives to the hoop,it looks like he's participating in the triple jump in olympic track.
the nba is a global monster. not saying they don't care if views are down in USA, of course they do. but unlike nfl/ncaaf nba is watched by everyone around the world.
buy $BTC
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@pa2918
the nba is a global monster. not saying they don't care if views are down in USA, of course they do. but unlike nfl/ncaaf nba is watched by everyone around the world.
Thats a good point Eddy definitely If you have new viewers globally that weren’t as engaged to be able to compare the product from before then yes ratings overall probably arent suffering
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@Eddy_Winslow
Thats a good point Eddy definitely If you have new viewers globally that weren’t as engaged to be able to compare the product from before then yes ratings overall probably arent suffering
Yes it’s destroyed it’s product by manipulating qtr half and full game pt spreads for draft kings and that Caesar guy in exchange for x amount in dollars
“The average erect gorilla penis is 3cm (1.25 inches) long”
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Yes it’s destroyed it’s product by manipulating qtr half and full game pt spreads for draft kings and that Caesar guy in exchange for x amount in dollars
More overall skill as in the average nba player now are more of a triple threat than the average nba player in the 80s. Shooting is better, passing is better, and the handles. Of course the 80s has their stars who had those skills but overall less skill in the average baller
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@pa2918
More overall skill as in the average nba player now are more of a triple threat than the average nba player in the 80s. Shooting is better, passing is better, and the handles. Of course the 80s has their stars who had those skills but overall less skill in the average baller
Yes but no. I get your point but have to agree to disagree on that. All that you mention is a direct reflection of what players are allowed to do today due to rule changes. If you cant handcheck someone it allows your handles to be improved. It puts defenders at an extreme disadvantage. This allows players to work on their handles and become better at it yes but only because the rule changes allowed for this to happen. Its a direct cause and effect. The shooting you mention is the same. Players are better long distance shooters because of the 3 ball strategy. They practice more from the 3 then previous generations but at the same time the mid range jumpshot has all but dissapeared. No one shoots it anymore. It doesn’t mean that previous players were better at the shot from a natural evolution perspective.
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@wchen27
Yes but no. I get your point but have to agree to disagree on that. All that you mention is a direct reflection of what players are allowed to do today due to rule changes. If you cant handcheck someone it allows your handles to be improved. It puts defenders at an extreme disadvantage. This allows players to work on their handles and become better at it yes but only because the rule changes allowed for this to happen. Its a direct cause and effect. The shooting you mention is the same. Players are better long distance shooters because of the 3 ball strategy. They practice more from the 3 then previous generations but at the same time the mid range jumpshot has all but dissapeared. No one shoots it anymore. It doesn’t mean that previous players were better at the shot from a natural evolution perspective.
For me I can honestly say I'm not the fan I once was. If I didn't gamble I hate to say I probably wouldn't even pay attention anymore. I'm a guy that was a die hard bulls fan growing up of course I was a kid and Jordan and Co were the shit. Even as recently as 10 years or so I never missed a bulls game. If I couldn't watch live I recorded it so I could watch when I got home. Then games became a 3 point contest with no D. I'm sure my bulls sucking the last few years played a part but I can say I'm not the fan I once was. Haven't watched a single game that I didn't have money on. That was never the case as I'd watch games because I was a fan.
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For me I can honestly say I'm not the fan I once was. If I didn't gamble I hate to say I probably wouldn't even pay attention anymore. I'm a guy that was a die hard bulls fan growing up of course I was a kid and Jordan and Co were the shit. Even as recently as 10 years or so I never missed a bulls game. If I couldn't watch live I recorded it so I could watch when I got home. Then games became a 3 point contest with no D. I'm sure my bulls sucking the last few years played a part but I can say I'm not the fan I once was. Haven't watched a single game that I didn't have money on. That was never the case as I'd watch games because I was a fan.
Lots to say about this but the biggest problems that make the game unwatchable at times when compared to 80s and 90’s with Jordan:
1) No variety in the game anymore. It used to be all the great ones had their own patented shots and styles. The floater, the sky hook, the finger roll, the bank shot, the fade away, the mid range game, the post up, the fast break teams, the half court teams, the motion offense teams, the offensive juggernauts, the defensive teams, etc. Now it’s a just a glorified three point shooting contests where all the teams are clones of each other. It’s boring! And there is a lot less skill involved. Grab a rebound and everyone sprints down the court as fast they can and goes to their appointed spot waiting to get the ball to hoist up a 3. It doesn’t matter what size you are, big, tall, small, average, you better be able to shoot the 3. Half court game is not much better, occasionally you’ll get a team like the Warriors or old Spurs with lots of variety and movement and that’s a lot better than watching pick and rolls or pick and pops all day.
2) Iverson ruined the game by palming the ball and it hasn’t been the same since. Compare him to Jason Kidd, who had the ball on a yo-yo. Not even close. League was desperate to find its next stars so they let Iverson get away with murder and now every guy does it, including Curry but he is not nearly the worst. The worst is actually Morant. The way he dribbles on his way to the basket, palming and carrying the ball is an absolute joke. Defenders don’t stand a chance when a guy with that kind of quickness and speed is allowed to bend the rules like that. But the league doesn’t care.
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Lots to say about this but the biggest problems that make the game unwatchable at times when compared to 80s and 90’s with Jordan:
1) No variety in the game anymore. It used to be all the great ones had their own patented shots and styles. The floater, the sky hook, the finger roll, the bank shot, the fade away, the mid range game, the post up, the fast break teams, the half court teams, the motion offense teams, the offensive juggernauts, the defensive teams, etc. Now it’s a just a glorified three point shooting contests where all the teams are clones of each other. It’s boring! And there is a lot less skill involved. Grab a rebound and everyone sprints down the court as fast they can and goes to their appointed spot waiting to get the ball to hoist up a 3. It doesn’t matter what size you are, big, tall, small, average, you better be able to shoot the 3. Half court game is not much better, occasionally you’ll get a team like the Warriors or old Spurs with lots of variety and movement and that’s a lot better than watching pick and rolls or pick and pops all day.
2) Iverson ruined the game by palming the ball and it hasn’t been the same since. Compare him to Jason Kidd, who had the ball on a yo-yo. Not even close. League was desperate to find its next stars so they let Iverson get away with murder and now every guy does it, including Curry but he is not nearly the worst. The worst is actually Morant. The way he dribbles on his way to the basket, palming and carrying the ball is an absolute joke. Defenders don’t stand a chance when a guy with that kind of quickness and speed is allowed to bend the rules like that. But the league doesn’t care.
Finally someone brought up the palming evolution! I tried to explain this to my buddies and they say get off my lawn old man…The crossover dribble by Tim hardaway was amazing that changes the game. I’m not sure who first coined the first crossover but Tim Hardaway sure caught my attention. I see palming all the time and as a defender it’s impossible to defend because it’s impossible to try and swipe and steal the ball when someone literally Carry’s the ball and prevents it from bouncing. Definitely has changed the game but it’s more entertaining to the younger crowd because they do not want to see John Stockton dribbling down the court….
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@begginerboy
Finally someone brought up the palming evolution! I tried to explain this to my buddies and they say get off my lawn old man…The crossover dribble by Tim hardaway was amazing that changes the game. I’m not sure who first coined the first crossover but Tim Hardaway sure caught my attention. I see palming all the time and as a defender it’s impossible to defend because it’s impossible to try and swipe and steal the ball when someone literally Carry’s the ball and prevents it from bouncing. Definitely has changed the game but it’s more entertaining to the younger crowd because they do not want to see John Stockton dribbling down the court….
@begginerboy Finally someone brought up the palming evolution! I tried to explain this to my buddies and they say get off my lawn old man…The crossover dribble by Tim hardaway was amazing that changes the game. I’m not sure who first coined the first crossover but Tim Hardaway sure caught my attention. I see palming all the time and as a defender it’s impossible to defend because it’s impossible to try and swipe and steal the ball when someone literally Carry’s the ball and prevents it from bouncing. Definitely has changed the game but it’s more entertaining to the younger crowd because they do not want to see John Stockton dribbling down the court….
When we were kids playing in the playground we called traveling and palming or carrying over all the time. Morant made a winning shot (by winning I mean game changing/determining) against the Warriors in the playoffs where he traveled and carried the ball over on the same move neither of which were called.
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Quote Originally Posted by AFNfootballnerd:
@begginerboy Finally someone brought up the palming evolution! I tried to explain this to my buddies and they say get off my lawn old man…The crossover dribble by Tim hardaway was amazing that changes the game. I’m not sure who first coined the first crossover but Tim Hardaway sure caught my attention. I see palming all the time and as a defender it’s impossible to defend because it’s impossible to try and swipe and steal the ball when someone literally Carry’s the ball and prevents it from bouncing. Definitely has changed the game but it’s more entertaining to the younger crowd because they do not want to see John Stockton dribbling down the court….
When we were kids playing in the playground we called traveling and palming or carrying over all the time. Morant made a winning shot (by winning I mean game changing/determining) against the Warriors in the playoffs where he traveled and carried the ball over on the same move neither of which were called.
Excellent topic. Nail on the head. The only fun part for me in watching NBA now is counting how many traveling palming etc r not called … eurostep uve got to be kidding and BB is spot on w respect to Ja M in the game he went off on the Warriors . Also they basically allow double dribble where the player touches the ball w both hands while driving to the basket. Also, last 5 minutes of game takes 2 hours. Interesting note to the fixer crowd how there haven’t been any close games during the playoffs . Personally I think hand checking should not be allowed and agree w the earlier post how Detroit and NY almost ruined NBA in 90s w what was called tough D when it really was effectively cheating. NBA refs have way 2 much discretion. End of rant
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Excellent topic. Nail on the head. The only fun part for me in watching NBA now is counting how many traveling palming etc r not called … eurostep uve got to be kidding and BB is spot on w respect to Ja M in the game he went off on the Warriors . Also they basically allow double dribble where the player touches the ball w both hands while driving to the basket. Also, last 5 minutes of game takes 2 hours. Interesting note to the fixer crowd how there haven’t been any close games during the playoffs . Personally I think hand checking should not be allowed and agree w the earlier post how Detroit and NY almost ruined NBA in 90s w what was called tough D when it really was effectively cheating. NBA refs have way 2 much discretion. End of rant
@StumpTownStu The NBA like this because the avg fan is not.a big person not can they dunk and fly high the way the game looks now the kids and fans can mimick this in their games and related to the more.avg size basketball player. I.e Chris Paul , Steph curry James harden, Trey young , Donavan Mitchell , Morant - all the top advertised players in the league are 6'3 and under it will be this way for a long time .
Harden is a legit 6'5" but yeah, this is correct.
R.I.P. #94 MARSHAWN KNEELAND - DC4L
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Quote Originally Posted by westwing:
@StumpTownStu The NBA like this because the avg fan is not.a big person not can they dunk and fly high the way the game looks now the kids and fans can mimick this in their games and related to the more.avg size basketball player. I.e Chris Paul , Steph curry James harden, Trey young , Donavan Mitchell , Morant - all the top advertised players in the league are 6'3 and under it will be this way for a long time .
.... So many blowouts determined by who hits their 3's and who doesn't...
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