Quote Originally Posted by TheluckyDC:
I was referencing the fact that there are era's in Basketball (Russell's Celtics, Bird vs. Magic, MJ's Era)
I agree with everything you said about Jordan's athleticism problem is he was a freak of nature to the NBA when he hit his prime the issue I have is
A) athletic guard play in the 90's outside of a handful of guys was non-existent as a bulk of the elite talent were big men (hakeem, robinson, malone, barkley, shaq, ewing, kemp and others) and that handful of guys (penny hardaway, gary payton, reggie miller, clyde drexler, Grant Hill) were all clearly a few notches beneath Jordan in athleticism.
B) LeBron faces equal athleticism or at least something close to it almost every single night in the league so he doesn't have that clear advantage or as big of a difference as Jordan did. Jordan had arguably the best wing defender on his own team lol
Look at Isiah Thomas', Magic Johnson's, Kareem Abdul Jabar's and Larry Bird's careers after 1990. Those guys had to get old before Jordan won anything, he didn't even get to the finals before 1991 and was drafted in 1984. LeBron got there in 2007 after being drafted in 2003.
Look what happens to lebron's teams after he leaves, Cavs had #1 pick 3x in 5 years, Miami didn't make playoffs before he gets there and they had wade.... he comes for 4 years and 4 straight finals appearances with 2 ships he leaves they miss the playoffs. Lebron's old teams couldn't even win regular season games the Cavs went from 60 wins to 60 losses in 2010 and he took THAT team to the ECF.
Also bigger players are reffed differently as they don't look to be as effected by contact so in turn get less calls as they look less impeded. But thats no excuse when you can breathe on someone in todays NBA and still get a foul call.
No matter how great Lebron was he took lesser teams to the finals which is why he was the underdog....... his opponents carried a higher win % into the finals than Jordan's opponents in the finals (tougher competition).
dude,you make sum great points and i lean toward agreeing with most of wat you say.
my gut says youre probably right in saying the physiology of your average nba wingman was quite inferior next to jordan which gave him an advantage.....but isnt that credit to him for being ahead of his time in simply being a superior leaper,sprinter and agile mover packed in a 6'6" frame??...its a bit subjective and so hard to say definitively but on the other side of the coin,yes there are terrific athletes all throughout the league nowadays but again lebron also is ahead of his time in that no-one else comes close to his combination of speed,mobility,strength,power,hops in a frame that large......i dunno if its a legit argument but seems about right i guess.
again,you can flip it and say that it was jordans dominance that made the league look a little weaker than it actually was...you see dynasty teams the celtics,pistons,lakers all fade and assume that michael just timed it right and "cashed in"......but many have argued conversely that it was jordan that almost single-handedly blocked a generation of all time greats from having their own winning legacy or building any kind of budding dynasty....think about the greats-drexler,ewing,barkley,robinson(obviously he won a ring),malone and stockton and reggie miller...if jordan was removed from history maybe one of those cats is part of a dominant team over a whole era.....the jazz,sonics,blazers and suns teams that jordan faced were all quality teams,definitely above average finals opponents and jordan vanquished all of them...they were underdogs BECAUSE OF HIM.
totally agree,lebron has a transformative effect on his team,his all round dominance turns almost any team into instant finals contendors overnite...altho you have to concede the one significant caveat that he has always been in the east and even his most ardent supporter wud grant him that being heavily in his favour............this is yet another one where you can flip it and say"oh,its easier for lebron to completely alter a teams fortunes cos the league is weaker/more watered down than in jordans day"...im not gonna get into that cos its so hard to know,so many variables.
thats one thing i wont argue with,i feel that overall lebron has been over-matched to a greater degree in his finals series.....but hey,on the biggest stage for all the marbles thats where legends are made...if hes the greatest ever then he sumhow finds ways to will his teams to titles as underdog(just like hes tryna do rite now).....no way in hell shud he been expected to beat the spurs in '07 or warriors last year......but the warriors this year(yea,theyre terrific but im not buying this greatest team of all time malarkey),plus the mavericks and the spurs in '14(tho that was an extremely good and determined squad)were all opportunities for him to sumhow drag his team kicking and screaming to an unexpected result......mavs obviously he was fave tho,right??
but in the end im not one of these idiots who think one player determines the result in a team sport.....ya still gotta have the pieces around you step up and particularly a cerebral team player who always wants to share the ball whenever possible like lebron.
so,you never answered my question,how much of jordan did you see??
and who do you see as the more fierce competitor in your personal opinion??
DID NOT KNOW THIS THREAD IS THAT OLD
bostonftw.
...you mean they won more REGULAR SEASON games..then wat happened in the playoffs??....thats right,they missed the finals and also lost to the team that cudnt win the finals so thats the difference rite there..at the time of year when it matters they DESPERATELY needed jordan.
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