The league lacks quality centers to prevent LeBron from being able to attack the rim so easily. Yes, I do think he would have needed to change the way he plays to be successful. Right now he lowers his shoulder and charges to the basket. That tactic would likely not have worked nearly as often as it does now.
He's a great passer and he's very athletic but this idea that none of the older players from the NBA could play is absolute garbage. The problem is that the backups in the older days generally weren't that good. Today's backups are much better so the NBA has become more competitive overall, although it still lacks true parity.
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The league lacks quality centers to prevent LeBron from being able to attack the rim so easily. Yes, I do think he would have needed to change the way he plays to be successful. Right now he lowers his shoulder and charges to the basket. That tactic would likely not have worked nearly as often as it does now.
He's a great passer and he's very athletic but this idea that none of the older players from the NBA could play is absolute garbage. The problem is that the backups in the older days generally weren't that good. Today's backups are much better so the NBA has become more competitive overall, although it still lacks true parity.
I agree with those saying Lebron isn't a great shooter... He's not. Nobody is scared of him pulling up. And for someone of his size he really should have a better post up game. But obviously his athletic ability in terms of size, speed, leaping ability and defense is off the charts
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I agree with those saying Lebron isn't a great shooter... He's not. Nobody is scared of him pulling up. And for someone of his size he really should have a better post up game. But obviously his athletic ability in terms of size, speed, leaping ability and defense is off the charts
Actually I'm only 32 but that's ok...I was going to take the time to respond to your thread, but I'm not sure what's more embarrassing....your awful grammar or how tough you're trying to be from behind a keyboard.Lebron can't even post up on Iggy, Harrison or Green without an offensive foul...he wouldn't have been able to ha for the game back then.He is suppose to be this great physical player the best the Nba has seen, and he cries after fouls from Curry, Thompson and Livingston who are all about 60lbs lighter than him....and you think he would have cut it back then?? Gotcha...
That's what you are missing. Iggy and green would be 2 of the best wing 2 guard/wing defenders back then. Basically mj would not have Craig ehlo guarding him. It would be George Leonard Iggy lebron etc......someone as big or bigger with similar athleticism with an athletic big waiting to help instead of some white dude in tight shorts that can't move and a fat slow big standing in concrete
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Quote Originally Posted by LETGOPACK1234:
Actually I'm only 32 but that's ok...I was going to take the time to respond to your thread, but I'm not sure what's more embarrassing....your awful grammar or how tough you're trying to be from behind a keyboard.Lebron can't even post up on Iggy, Harrison or Green without an offensive foul...he wouldn't have been able to ha for the game back then.He is suppose to be this great physical player the best the Nba has seen, and he cries after fouls from Curry, Thompson and Livingston who are all about 60lbs lighter than him....and you think he would have cut it back then?? Gotcha...
That's what you are missing. Iggy and green would be 2 of the best wing 2 guard/wing defenders back then. Basically mj would not have Craig ehlo guarding him. It would be George Leonard Iggy lebron etc......someone as big or bigger with similar athleticism with an athletic big waiting to help instead of some white dude in tight shorts that can't move and a fat slow big standing in concrete
So is it just human nature to like a good debate?.... A lot of posts in this thread. I'm not a huge NBA fan, but I see the same type of dialogue on the College Football forum that I like every Sunday.... Top 10 lists that are sports talk, opinions on that sport, but not sports betting discussion. It's more just entertainment than useful discussion that helps one win a bet. Anybody else feel this way?
I'm not bashing a good debate, but understand what you're getting into and what your expectations are..... You're not going to arrive at a definitive answer either way. And you probably can't force someone else to see it your way.
I might as well turn on espn and watch Skip Bayless and Stephen A. Smith talk and try to use that information to win a bet. I'm being sarcastic of course, but you get the idea.... Sometimes we do the same thing on a betting forum.
TD
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Guys,
So is it just human nature to like a good debate?.... A lot of posts in this thread. I'm not a huge NBA fan, but I see the same type of dialogue on the College Football forum that I like every Sunday.... Top 10 lists that are sports talk, opinions on that sport, but not sports betting discussion. It's more just entertainment than useful discussion that helps one win a bet. Anybody else feel this way?
I'm not bashing a good debate, but understand what you're getting into and what your expectations are..... You're not going to arrive at a definitive answer either way. And you probably can't force someone else to see it your way.
I might as well turn on espn and watch Skip Bayless and Stephen A. Smith talk and try to use that information to win a bet. I'm being sarcastic of course, but you get the idea.... Sometimes we do the same thing on a betting forum.
I agree with those saying Lebron isn't a great shooter... He's not. Nobody is scared of him pulling up. And for someone of his size he really should have a better post up game. But obviously his athletic ability in terms of size, speed, leaping ability and defense is off the charts
uuum,wats your definition of "great"???because he is well above league average % in f/g shooting and 3 point shooting for his career and is ahead of both kobe and jordan in 3 point,and ahead of kobe in f/g.....and yet many people around here will have you believe he is a worse shooter than those guys...wat exactly are you talking about wen you knock his shooting??no,hes not a specialist pure shooter but hes pretty damn good overall judging by his results....his only weak point is from the free throw line,where he is decidedly average and can go into slumps pretty often.
equally,his post-ups are not unstoppable or anything but his success rate wen he chooses to play down low is again definitely above average.
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Quote Originally Posted by NYG4rings:
I agree with those saying Lebron isn't a great shooter... He's not. Nobody is scared of him pulling up. And for someone of his size he really should have a better post up game. But obviously his athletic ability in terms of size, speed, leaping ability and defense is off the charts
uuum,wats your definition of "great"???because he is well above league average % in f/g shooting and 3 point shooting for his career and is ahead of both kobe and jordan in 3 point,and ahead of kobe in f/g.....and yet many people around here will have you believe he is a worse shooter than those guys...wat exactly are you talking about wen you knock his shooting??no,hes not a specialist pure shooter but hes pretty damn good overall judging by his results....his only weak point is from the free throw line,where he is decidedly average and can go into slumps pretty often.
equally,his post-ups are not unstoppable or anything but his success rate wen he chooses to play down low is again definitely above average.
So is it just human nature to like a good debate?.... A lot of posts in this thread. I'm not a huge NBA fan, but I see the same type of dialogue on the College Football forum that I like every Sunday.... Top 10 lists that are sports talk, opinions on that sport, but not sports betting discussion. It's more just entertainment than useful discussion that helps one win a bet. Anybody else feel this way?
I'm not bashing a good debate, but understand what you're getting into and what your expectations are..... You're not going to arrive at a definitive answer either way. And you probably can't force someone else to see it your way.
I might as well turn on espn and watch Skip Bayless and Stephen A. Smith talk and try to use that information to win a bet. I'm being sarcastic of course, but you get the idea.... Sometimes we do the same thing on a betting forum.
TD
of course no conclusion can ever be drawn...its just a way to shoot shiiit and waste away the time of day...sum of us here are obviously basketball junkies and like talking the game....agreed,it is of little to no use in sports betting
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Quote Originally Posted by TD21:
Guys,
So is it just human nature to like a good debate?.... A lot of posts in this thread. I'm not a huge NBA fan, but I see the same type of dialogue on the College Football forum that I like every Sunday.... Top 10 lists that are sports talk, opinions on that sport, but not sports betting discussion. It's more just entertainment than useful discussion that helps one win a bet. Anybody else feel this way?
I'm not bashing a good debate, but understand what you're getting into and what your expectations are..... You're not going to arrive at a definitive answer either way. And you probably can't force someone else to see it your way.
I might as well turn on espn and watch Skip Bayless and Stephen A. Smith talk and try to use that information to win a bet. I'm being sarcastic of course, but you get the idea.... Sometimes we do the same thing on a betting forum.
TD
of course no conclusion can ever be drawn...its just a way to shoot shiiit and waste away the time of day...sum of us here are obviously basketball junkies and like talking the game....agreed,it is of little to no use in sports betting
I've been watching basketball since 1983...and Lebron is better then Magic Johnson, Kobe and Bird as a player....Go look at Kobe Jordan, Magic, and Bird Supporting cast....Give Lebron their supporting cast and he wins multiple championships as well...Give those greats his injured Cleveland roster and they are down 3-0 in this series....
Much more parity in the league than in the past.
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Quote Originally Posted by jdukes0004:
I've been watching basketball since 1983...and Lebron is better then Magic Johnson, Kobe and Bird as a player....Go look at Kobe Jordan, Magic, and Bird Supporting cast....Give Lebron their supporting cast and he wins multiple championships as well...Give those greats his injured Cleveland roster and they are down 3-0 in this series....
It would make the game so much easier for lebron if it was like it used to be. He would have grown up playing that way and his physical tools are way better than ANYONE back then. There is no comparison to his size and athleticism back then. You can't cross generations and compare unlike players. Mj was a straight scorer. Lebron has a MUCH better all around game and actually makes his teammates better.
A guy who pretty much lead his team to 6 straight championships didn't make his teammates better?
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Quote Originally Posted by lonniejoshua:
It would make the game so much easier for lebron if it was like it used to be. He would have grown up playing that way and his physical tools are way better than ANYONE back then. There is no comparison to his size and athleticism back then. You can't cross generations and compare unlike players. Mj was a straight scorer. Lebron has a MUCH better all around game and actually makes his teammates better.
A guy who pretty much lead his team to 6 straight championships didn't make his teammates better?
In 98 the bulls beat the jazz.....the jazz roster was pathetic besides Stockton and Malone and they were 62-20. Everybody else k the team was crap. Malone could still be effective today.....but think about Stockton guarding curry westbrook rose wall...etc.........it would get embarrassing fast. The nba was so bad when mj was dominating. It's just science the players are just better now. Better shooters better athletes. Better speed. Better size with the combo athleticism. I just don't understand how people can't see that. It's science. say mj dominated HIS ERA better than lebron has......but please don't compare players back then to now. It would not even be competitive. There is obviously maybe a few guys on each team back then that could still compete but across the board it would be embarrassing. Just like it would if we did the same in football. D ends run d back from 80-90's forty times now....linebackers now run corner back times. Think of players like calvin and ap playing back then. It's just science
Better hgh and more talent in the league than in the 80's or 90's.
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Quote Originally Posted by lonniejoshua:
In 98 the bulls beat the jazz.....the jazz roster was pathetic besides Stockton and Malone and they were 62-20. Everybody else k the team was crap. Malone could still be effective today.....but think about Stockton guarding curry westbrook rose wall...etc.........it would get embarrassing fast. The nba was so bad when mj was dominating. It's just science the players are just better now. Better shooters better athletes. Better speed. Better size with the combo athleticism. I just don't understand how people can't see that. It's science. say mj dominated HIS ERA better than lebron has......but please don't compare players back then to now. It would not even be competitive. There is obviously maybe a few guys on each team back then that could still compete but across the board it would be embarrassing. Just like it would if we did the same in football. D ends run d back from 80-90's forty times now....linebackers now run corner back times. Think of players like calvin and ap playing back then. It's just science
Better hgh and more talent in the league than in the 80's or 90's.
That's what you are missing. Iggy and green would be 2 of the best wing 2 guard/wing defenders back then. Basically mj would not have Craig ehlo guarding him. It would be George Leonard Iggy lebron etc......someone as big or bigger with similar athleticism with an athletic big waiting to help instead of some white dude in tight shorts that can't move and a fat slow big standing in concrete
Who are the best centers in the league today? Dwight Howard who is soft and misses half the season every year? Deandre Jordan? Is that it? I mean Bogut is such a force inside that Kerr rewarded him by benching him last game. Bron never has to go against great centers in the east that can just stand in the lane and block you shot or hammer you like in the 80's and 90's.
Back then you had all time great centers like Kareem, Ewing, David Robinson, the Dream, Shaq. Come on man the talent level of bigs is nowhere near it used to be, which is why Lebron can dominate at the rim. I agree with the argument that players as a whole are better athletes today because of evolution. The problem is that these guys rely on that ability alone and do not develop as basketball players, which is why we see the best Centers like Dwight and Deandre shooting 40% from the free throw line.
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Quote Originally Posted by lonniejoshua:
That's what you are missing. Iggy and green would be 2 of the best wing 2 guard/wing defenders back then. Basically mj would not have Craig ehlo guarding him. It would be George Leonard Iggy lebron etc......someone as big or bigger with similar athleticism with an athletic big waiting to help instead of some white dude in tight shorts that can't move and a fat slow big standing in concrete
Who are the best centers in the league today? Dwight Howard who is soft and misses half the season every year? Deandre Jordan? Is that it? I mean Bogut is such a force inside that Kerr rewarded him by benching him last game. Bron never has to go against great centers in the east that can just stand in the lane and block you shot or hammer you like in the 80's and 90's.
Back then you had all time great centers like Kareem, Ewing, David Robinson, the Dream, Shaq. Come on man the talent level of bigs is nowhere near it used to be, which is why Lebron can dominate at the rim. I agree with the argument that players as a whole are better athletes today because of evolution. The problem is that these guys rely on that ability alone and do not develop as basketball players, which is why we see the best Centers like Dwight and Deandre shooting 40% from the free throw line.
Who are the best centers in the league today? Dwight Howard who is soft and misses half the season every year? Deandre Jordan? Is that it? I mean Bogut is such a force inside that Kerr rewarded him by benching him last game. Bron never has to go against great centers in the east that can just stand in the lane and block you shot or hammer you like in the 80's and 90's.
Back then you had all time great centers like Kareem, Ewing, David Robinson, the Dream, Shaq. Come on man the talent level of bigs is nowhere near it used to be, which is why Lebron can dominate at the rim. I agree with the argument that players as a whole are better athletes today because of evolution. The problem is that these guys rely on that ability alone and do not develop as basketball players, which is why we see the best Centers like Dwight and Deandre shooting 40% from the free throw line.
Same old tired argument. League has evolved much since those days. Sure some of the guys named could play in any era, but the game is so more guard heavy. Pace of the game is faster. Different defensive rules. Playing through your center is now a stagnate strategy on offense.
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Quote Originally Posted by DeezyAZ81:
Who are the best centers in the league today? Dwight Howard who is soft and misses half the season every year? Deandre Jordan? Is that it? I mean Bogut is such a force inside that Kerr rewarded him by benching him last game. Bron never has to go against great centers in the east that can just stand in the lane and block you shot or hammer you like in the 80's and 90's.
Back then you had all time great centers like Kareem, Ewing, David Robinson, the Dream, Shaq. Come on man the talent level of bigs is nowhere near it used to be, which is why Lebron can dominate at the rim. I agree with the argument that players as a whole are better athletes today because of evolution. The problem is that these guys rely on that ability alone and do not develop as basketball players, which is why we see the best Centers like Dwight and Deandre shooting 40% from the free throw line.
Same old tired argument. League has evolved much since those days. Sure some of the guys named could play in any era, but the game is so more guard heavy. Pace of the game is faster. Different defensive rules. Playing through your center is now a stagnate strategy on offense.
Craig hodges and Steve kerr are statically 2 of the best 3 point shooters of all time with kerr being the best. Bj, grant, and even cartwright were selected for a stars games during the career......plus kukoc better than all the above mentioned except pippen. He did NOTHING prior to pippen......pippen made it to eastern conference finals season without mj. Lebron left cleveland and pretty same roster had the second worst record ever the next season. Left miami and they added another all star in Deng and could not make playoffs in "horrible" eastern conferences and cavs dominate again
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Craig hodges and Steve kerr are statically 2 of the best 3 point shooters of all time with kerr being the best. Bj, grant, and even cartwright were selected for a stars games during the career......plus kukoc better than all the above mentioned except pippen. He did NOTHING prior to pippen......pippen made it to eastern conference finals season without mj. Lebron left cleveland and pretty same roster had the second worst record ever the next season. Left miami and they added another all star in Deng and could not make playoffs in "horrible" eastern conferences and cavs dominate again
Same old tired argument. League has evolved much since those days. Sure some of the guys named could play in any era, but the game is so more guard heavy. Pace of the game is faster. Different defensive rules. Playing through your center is now a stagnate strategy on offense.
. Yes the new defensive rules make the game much easier. Defensive 3 seconds, no hand-checking, touch fouls. You pretty much destroyed your own argument ha.
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Quote Originally Posted by JerryWrasse:
Same old tired argument. League has evolved much since those days. Sure some of the guys named could play in any era, but the game is so more guard heavy. Pace of the game is faster. Different defensive rules. Playing through your center is now a stagnate strategy on offense.
. Yes the new defensive rules make the game much easier. Defensive 3 seconds, no hand-checking, touch fouls. You pretty much destroyed your own argument ha.
Why am I not surprised there was another thread on LBJ vs MJ, after game 4?
Melossinglet, we've discussed this before in previous threads. As we're seeing again, the vitriol aimed toward LBJ is because of the comparisons to MJ. No one compares Bill Russell to MJ. No one compares Earvin Johnson, Larry Bird, Tim Duncan, or Oscar Robertson to MJ. But the media (and LBJ) has spoon-fed a vomitting-amount of "The Chosen One", "I don't think anyone should wear the number 23, out of respect for MJ. *goes back to Cleveland* I'm wearing the number 23", "The Decision", "I'm calling myself King James" and other hostile-emotion-induced behavior towards fans. I will say, from my personal perspective, why he is not and will never be the G.O.A,T, over MJ.
*LEGACY*. MJ, more so than any other player in the history of the NBA, has captured the hearts and minds of basketball-enthusiasts, casual fans, and people who've never had any inclination to watch a basketball game before. That's one thing to be extremely talented in a professional sport, such as the players I mentioned earlier. It's something else entirely to dominate a sport in such a way that MJ did...AND...grab the attention of everyone from around the world, setting the new standard for all players, from every sport, to follow henceforth. His basketball shoe brand, after MJ hasn't played in the league for about 15 years, still sell an insurmountable amount of money more than any other nike shoe-signed player (including Lebron James). New colorways for his shoes from the 80's and 90's (which get a refresh almost every month), are sold out on every authorized website that sells new Air Jordans within 60 seconds of them going on sale, guaranteed. His Gatorade commercial, which had a refresh this year to commemorate 50 years of Gatorade, still makes people tingle when they see it (me included). His father passing away, him unexepectedly retiring after a 3-peat, and him overcoming his grief by achieving another 3-peat...and he brought all of us along for the emotional ride. And not blatantly trying to manipulate people's way of thinking...he let YOU call him "The Greatest of all Time".
Fair or not, it doesn't matter what anyone says on Lebron James, he just won't get the respect of being the greatest player in NBA history. He followed MJ's legacy to the T, as well as he could. He forgot a few things, though. "Humble Pie" is one of them. "Public Perception" is another one.
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Why am I not surprised there was another thread on LBJ vs MJ, after game 4?
Melossinglet, we've discussed this before in previous threads. As we're seeing again, the vitriol aimed toward LBJ is because of the comparisons to MJ. No one compares Bill Russell to MJ. No one compares Earvin Johnson, Larry Bird, Tim Duncan, or Oscar Robertson to MJ. But the media (and LBJ) has spoon-fed a vomitting-amount of "The Chosen One", "I don't think anyone should wear the number 23, out of respect for MJ. *goes back to Cleveland* I'm wearing the number 23", "The Decision", "I'm calling myself King James" and other hostile-emotion-induced behavior towards fans. I will say, from my personal perspective, why he is not and will never be the G.O.A,T, over MJ.
*LEGACY*. MJ, more so than any other player in the history of the NBA, has captured the hearts and minds of basketball-enthusiasts, casual fans, and people who've never had any inclination to watch a basketball game before. That's one thing to be extremely talented in a professional sport, such as the players I mentioned earlier. It's something else entirely to dominate a sport in such a way that MJ did...AND...grab the attention of everyone from around the world, setting the new standard for all players, from every sport, to follow henceforth. His basketball shoe brand, after MJ hasn't played in the league for about 15 years, still sell an insurmountable amount of money more than any other nike shoe-signed player (including Lebron James). New colorways for his shoes from the 80's and 90's (which get a refresh almost every month), are sold out on every authorized website that sells new Air Jordans within 60 seconds of them going on sale, guaranteed. His Gatorade commercial, which had a refresh this year to commemorate 50 years of Gatorade, still makes people tingle when they see it (me included). His father passing away, him unexepectedly retiring after a 3-peat, and him overcoming his grief by achieving another 3-peat...and he brought all of us along for the emotional ride. And not blatantly trying to manipulate people's way of thinking...he let YOU call him "The Greatest of all Time".
Fair or not, it doesn't matter what anyone says on Lebron James, he just won't get the respect of being the greatest player in NBA history. He followed MJ's legacy to the T, as well as he could. He forgot a few things, though. "Humble Pie" is one of them. "Public Perception" is another one.
Craig hodges and Steve kerr are statically 2 of the best 3 point shooters of all time with kerr being the best. Bj, grant, and even cartwright were selected for a stars games during the career......plus kukoc better than all the above mentioned except pippen. He did NOTHING prior to pippen......pippen made it to eastern conference finals season without mj. Lebron left cleveland and pretty same roster had the second worst record ever the next season. Left miami and they added another all star in Deng and could not make playoffs in "horrible" eastern conferences and cavs dominate again
Look up Kerr and Hodges stats before they played with Jordan. These guys became great 3 point shooters because Jordan got them open shots.
Before arriving in Chicago, Kerr averaged a whopping 2.5 points per game twice, 6 points per game 2, and 5 ppg 1. As soon as he came to Chicago he averaged 8.2 ppg or more 4 consecutive season and drastically increased his shooting percentage. You think this is a coincidence?
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Quote Originally Posted by lonniejoshua:
Craig hodges and Steve kerr are statically 2 of the best 3 point shooters of all time with kerr being the best. Bj, grant, and even cartwright were selected for a stars games during the career......plus kukoc better than all the above mentioned except pippen. He did NOTHING prior to pippen......pippen made it to eastern conference finals season without mj. Lebron left cleveland and pretty same roster had the second worst record ever the next season. Left miami and they added another all star in Deng and could not make playoffs in "horrible" eastern conferences and cavs dominate again
Look up Kerr and Hodges stats before they played with Jordan. These guys became great 3 point shooters because Jordan got them open shots.
Before arriving in Chicago, Kerr averaged a whopping 2.5 points per game twice, 6 points per game 2, and 5 ppg 1. As soon as he came to Chicago he averaged 8.2 ppg or more 4 consecutive season and drastically increased his shooting percentage. You think this is a coincidence?
Todays centers would dominate the fat old centers. Ant davis would face up any of them and straight embarrassing them
Except for the fact that Anthony Davis plays PF and weighs 220. I love his game but to call old centers fat is absurd. Maybe google a couple of pictures of David Robinson since you aren't familiar with that era clearly.
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Quote Originally Posted by lonniejoshua:
Todays centers would dominate the fat old centers. Ant davis would face up any of them and straight embarrassing them
Except for the fact that Anthony Davis plays PF and weighs 220. I love his game but to call old centers fat is absurd. Maybe google a couple of pictures of David Robinson since you aren't familiar with that era clearly.
lebron has one of the easiest path to the finals its not even fair. stack teams and playing in one of the weakest conference in decades. he should be in the finals easily for the next 3-4 years.
the cavs are stupid to build the team around lebron. lebron runs the show and who he wants on his team. they should of kept wiggin and not traded him for love
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lebron has one of the easiest path to the finals its not even fair. stack teams and playing in one of the weakest conference in decades. he should be in the finals easily for the next 3-4 years.
the cavs are stupid to build the team around lebron. lebron runs the show and who he wants on his team. they should of kept wiggin and not traded him for love
I'm not taking the time to look up the stats/standing but I wonder if when Jordan was playing that the 6th seed in the East was games under .500 overall, like they have been the last 5-6yrs
Like the post above says, teams in the East have been garbage except 2-3 teams a year, so Lebron has 1 tough series if that to make the finals
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I'm not taking the time to look up the stats/standing but I wonder if when Jordan was playing that the 6th seed in the East was games under .500 overall, like they have been the last 5-6yrs
Like the post above says, teams in the East have been garbage except 2-3 teams a year, so Lebron has 1 tough series if that to make the finals
I'm not taking the time to look up the stats/standing but I wonder if when Jordan was playing that the 6th seed in the East was games under .500 overall, like they have been the last 5-6yrs
Like the post above says, teams in the East have been garbage except 2-3 teams a year, so Lebron has 1 tough series if that to make the finals
..so wat???..is that his fault??..so you want him to bring about parity and competition in the east now as well as solve problems in the middle east and cure cancer on top of it??...anything else while youre at it??....its pathetic the lengths people will go to to discredit the guy simply cos they dont like him...talk about reaching-"oh,the centres are no good...oh,the east is so weak...."....so THATS the reason lebron has dominated the league like very few in history,huh??..really??....hes put up 27,7 and 7 for over a decade(whilst no-one else has even come close) because centres are non-existent and the east is weak??
good grief.gimme a break.
its IRRELEVENT wat the east is like,lebron holds his own versus any level of competition,as illustrated in this series versus the "almighty" warriors,and versus the spurs and thunder..and his career numbers in regular season across the board are BETTER versus west than versus east....do sum research before throwing wild assumptions and baseless criticisms out there
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Quote Originally Posted by LETGOPACK1234:
I'm not taking the time to look up the stats/standing but I wonder if when Jordan was playing that the 6th seed in the East was games under .500 overall, like they have been the last 5-6yrs
Like the post above says, teams in the East have been garbage except 2-3 teams a year, so Lebron has 1 tough series if that to make the finals
..so wat???..is that his fault??..so you want him to bring about parity and competition in the east now as well as solve problems in the middle east and cure cancer on top of it??...anything else while youre at it??....its pathetic the lengths people will go to to discredit the guy simply cos they dont like him...talk about reaching-"oh,the centres are no good...oh,the east is so weak...."....so THATS the reason lebron has dominated the league like very few in history,huh??..really??....hes put up 27,7 and 7 for over a decade(whilst no-one else has even come close) because centres are non-existent and the east is weak??
good grief.gimme a break.
its IRRELEVENT wat the east is like,lebron holds his own versus any level of competition,as illustrated in this series versus the "almighty" warriors,and versus the spurs and thunder..and his career numbers in regular season across the board are BETTER versus west than versus east....do sum research before throwing wild assumptions and baseless criticisms out there
Who are the best centers in the league today? Dwight Howard who is soft and misses half the season every year? Deandre Jordan? Is that it? I mean Bogut is such a force inside that Kerr rewarded him by benching him last game. Bron never has to go against great centers in the east that can just stand in the lane and block you shot or hammer you like in the 80's and 90's.
Back then you had all time great centers like Kareem, Ewing, David Robinson, the Dream, Shaq. Come on man the talent level of bigs is nowhere near it used to be, which is why Lebron can dominate at the rim. I agree with the argument that players as a whole are better athletes today because of evolution. The problem is that these guys rely on that ability alone and do not develop as basketball players, which is why we see the best Centers like Dwight and Deandre shooting 40% from the free throw line.
not sure wat your point is exactly but the game has evolved past the point where the centre is so vital now...many of those guys wud maybe even not be the focal point of todays offenses,who knows??...sure,they were big and/or powerful scorers but ewing and shaq and kareem cud not hang with a smaller,more mobile big and wud give up sumthing in the matchup at the defensive end if forced away from the basket....its easy,just put a stretch 4 out on the floor like bosh and the likes of ewing,shaq etc. wud be in trouble,they either move away from the basket allowing lebron a free path or they stay in the lane and give up easy open looks as lebron finds the open man....its all subjective and hypothetical but the point is the game has CHANGED and will continue to do so.
its absurd to say that lebron is only as effective as he is cos of smaller,weaker centres.....if youre relying on your centre to block the path of lebron then youre probably in trouble more often than not cos it means hes beaten his man and as one of the best passers in the game will be finding guys spotting up all day long as opposed to hypothetically scoring over the likes of david robinson.
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Quote Originally Posted by DeezyAZ81:
Who are the best centers in the league today? Dwight Howard who is soft and misses half the season every year? Deandre Jordan? Is that it? I mean Bogut is such a force inside that Kerr rewarded him by benching him last game. Bron never has to go against great centers in the east that can just stand in the lane and block you shot or hammer you like in the 80's and 90's.
Back then you had all time great centers like Kareem, Ewing, David Robinson, the Dream, Shaq. Come on man the talent level of bigs is nowhere near it used to be, which is why Lebron can dominate at the rim. I agree with the argument that players as a whole are better athletes today because of evolution. The problem is that these guys rely on that ability alone and do not develop as basketball players, which is why we see the best Centers like Dwight and Deandre shooting 40% from the free throw line.
not sure wat your point is exactly but the game has evolved past the point where the centre is so vital now...many of those guys wud maybe even not be the focal point of todays offenses,who knows??...sure,they were big and/or powerful scorers but ewing and shaq and kareem cud not hang with a smaller,more mobile big and wud give up sumthing in the matchup at the defensive end if forced away from the basket....its easy,just put a stretch 4 out on the floor like bosh and the likes of ewing,shaq etc. wud be in trouble,they either move away from the basket allowing lebron a free path or they stay in the lane and give up easy open looks as lebron finds the open man....its all subjective and hypothetical but the point is the game has CHANGED and will continue to do so.
its absurd to say that lebron is only as effective as he is cos of smaller,weaker centres.....if youre relying on your centre to block the path of lebron then youre probably in trouble more often than not cos it means hes beaten his man and as one of the best passers in the game will be finding guys spotting up all day long as opposed to hypothetically scoring over the likes of david robinson.
It's funny to hear people say give Lebron the supporting casts back then he would win multiple championships....
Yes, Jordan played Scottie and Rodman a couple years...
But I didn't realize Will Purdue, Bill Cartwright, bj Armstrong, Craig hodges, Horace grant were such superstars
thats why jordan is considered the BEST hands down by anyone worth taking seriously.....in his first run you are right,he took one of the worst supporting cast in finals history to title wins over and over again.
but the issue is wen people come in saying lebron is not in his league and an "average" player...that is as absurd as saying that lebron is better...flat out as a player alone based on his body of work lebron can certainly be held up in conversation with jordan...where m.j. clearly separates himself was his insatiable desire to win and his unbreakable will/belief...lebron doesnt have it on that level but he has the abilities.
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Quote Originally Posted by LETGOPACK1234:
It's funny to hear people say give Lebron the supporting casts back then he would win multiple championships....
Yes, Jordan played Scottie and Rodman a couple years...
But I didn't realize Will Purdue, Bill Cartwright, bj Armstrong, Craig hodges, Horace grant were such superstars
thats why jordan is considered the BEST hands down by anyone worth taking seriously.....in his first run you are right,he took one of the worst supporting cast in finals history to title wins over and over again.
but the issue is wen people come in saying lebron is not in his league and an "average" player...that is as absurd as saying that lebron is better...flat out as a player alone based on his body of work lebron can certainly be held up in conversation with jordan...where m.j. clearly separates himself was his insatiable desire to win and his unbreakable will/belief...lebron doesnt have it on that level but he has the abilities.
not sure wat your point is exactly but the game has evolved past the point where the centre is so vital now...many of those guys wud maybe even not be the focal point of todays offenses,who knows??...sure,they were big and/or powerful scorers but ewing and shaq and kareem cud not hang with a smaller,more mobile big and wud give up sumthing in the matchup at the defensive end if forced away from the basket....its easy,just put a stretch 4 out on the floor like bosh and the likes of ewing,shaq etc. wud be in trouble,they either move away from the basket allowing lebron a free path or they stay in the lane and give up easy open looks as lebron finds the open man....its all subjective and hypothetical but the point is the game has CHANGED and will continue to do so.
its absurd to say that lebron is only as effective as he is cos of smaller,weaker centres.....if youre relying on your centre to block the path of lebron then youre probably in trouble more often than not cos it means hes beaten his man and as one of the best passers in the game will be finding guys spotting up all day long as opposed to hypothetically scoring over the likes of david robinson.
I am not saying Lebron would not be effective and never have. I'm just saying he would not have it as easy as he does today. Lebron gets to the rim at will today and has no one in the lay helping is my point. It's different driving past your man having Shaq waiting until the lane, as opposed to Andrew Bogut or Tyler Zeller. The whole point about a stretch 4 in today's game I don't buy either. I hate that term actually. Opposing coaches will live with power forwards and centers shooting threes at 40% at best, as opposed to a big like Shaq or Tim Duncan dominating the paint at 50% and above shooting and dominating the glass. Just because the game has changed does not mean it is better today. Heck they keep changing all of the rules because of poor quality of play today. Defensive 3 seconds, soft flagrants, no hand-checking, now they are talking about getting rid of Hack a Shaq because guys can't make free throws? hahaha
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Quote Originally Posted by melossinglet:
not sure wat your point is exactly but the game has evolved past the point where the centre is so vital now...many of those guys wud maybe even not be the focal point of todays offenses,who knows??...sure,they were big and/or powerful scorers but ewing and shaq and kareem cud not hang with a smaller,more mobile big and wud give up sumthing in the matchup at the defensive end if forced away from the basket....its easy,just put a stretch 4 out on the floor like bosh and the likes of ewing,shaq etc. wud be in trouble,they either move away from the basket allowing lebron a free path or they stay in the lane and give up easy open looks as lebron finds the open man....its all subjective and hypothetical but the point is the game has CHANGED and will continue to do so.
its absurd to say that lebron is only as effective as he is cos of smaller,weaker centres.....if youre relying on your centre to block the path of lebron then youre probably in trouble more often than not cos it means hes beaten his man and as one of the best passers in the game will be finding guys spotting up all day long as opposed to hypothetically scoring over the likes of david robinson.
I am not saying Lebron would not be effective and never have. I'm just saying he would not have it as easy as he does today. Lebron gets to the rim at will today and has no one in the lay helping is my point. It's different driving past your man having Shaq waiting until the lane, as opposed to Andrew Bogut or Tyler Zeller. The whole point about a stretch 4 in today's game I don't buy either. I hate that term actually. Opposing coaches will live with power forwards and centers shooting threes at 40% at best, as opposed to a big like Shaq or Tim Duncan dominating the paint at 50% and above shooting and dominating the glass. Just because the game has changed does not mean it is better today. Heck they keep changing all of the rules because of poor quality of play today. Defensive 3 seconds, soft flagrants, no hand-checking, now they are talking about getting rid of Hack a Shaq because guys can't make free throws? hahaha
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. Yes the new defensive rules make the game much easier. Defensive 3 seconds, no hand-checking, touch fouls. You pretty much destroyed your own argument ha. 
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