MNF - Titans / Dolphins - Seahawks / Lions...

Now we are getting somewhere.  Thanks to Nawlins51 and spicycurry for engaging.

Here is a little sportsbook primer from highest vig to lowest:

Category 1:  The recreational book:  These are all books that will limit anyone who shows signs of winning, or does win.  They all charge -110 (or higher).  Draftkings, fanduel, caesars, betmgm, hardrock.  If anyone says they bet big at these books (lets say 5 figures), they are a longterm loser guaranteed.  It is funny when you see someone online post giant tickets at these places - because it is a self own.

Category 2:  The pro book:  Pinnacle, bookmaker, bet105, lowvig, Niitrobetting, Circa, Westgate Superbook.  These books will take large limits, and not ban pros or sharps for winning.  They are all (except Circa) -108 or less (even Westgate), and several -105 options.  

Category 3:  Exchanges:  4casters, Matchbook, Betdaq, Betfair (in order or useful-ness).  These exchanges often have .1 cent spreads  (yes, .1 cent).  4casters charges 1% commission to the house for the taker, and nothing for the maker (this is how they make money).  MB is similar, with BD and BF charging more.  It stands to reason if you are making at a .1 cent spread - you effectively are not paying vig.  Every major sportsbook in category 2 above uses the exchanges to take and lay off action, so they are eating up huge amounts at a time and laying off huge amounts.  Go to twitter and search for some of the screenshots.

Are they all available to everyone?  If you live in Iraq, probably not. Some are not available other places.  If you live in Texas, the square -110 books arent available.  It all depends.  The USA isnt the only place on earth remember.  But at least 1 from every category above is available almost everywhere on earth.

So now maybe you can start to understand why it is hard for me to assign vig properly.  Do I assign -110 for all of the people too lazy to go elsewhere, or -100.1 for those betting at an exchange?  I can assure you that personally - because I spend an unreasonable amount of time and effort - do not pay vig.  It is very possible.  But is that a fair expectation for everyone - and if not - how much to assign?

This is why I openly state that I dont assign vig, and ask you to assign vig.  It is fine with me to post it right in my thread.  And I am open to fair suggestions.  I prefer to be accurate and fair, so if something is better than what I am doing I am open.  I really dont care about my record on covers - as much as you think I do - I care about money.  This is a side hustle for me.  I do this to engage.  To interact.  And this whole vig thing is a distraction from what I really do this for so I would like it to be resolved.

One last thing...  @spicycurry - you stated several times that I GO IN TO OTHER PEOPLES THREADS and attack them for their lines, but you cant or wont provide an example.  Please just acknowledge this and lets move on.

@spicycurry

 I am so happy that we are moving forward with all this.

Yes those books payout. Vanzack made a great post for you to read about who is who. All of those books listed payout and so do the exchanges. Some will take work to get into like invite only. Some do not want USA customers.

And Vanzack said what I was telling you. These rec books are like a stock market. They take your bets then go to betting exchanges to hedge. They want 50/50 and collect the vig. Exchanges for large books is free money heaven. They are hedging all day just like stocks tick up and down all day. Thats why Vanzack shops all week on prices. Its literally a stock market for pro's. Its actually better because you can "make/maker" your own line with your offer with no fees or minimal fees or "take/taker" with a small fee on someone else's line.

I will add to what Vanzack said about books. If you are getting bonuses, its likely for rec bettors. And to be fair nothing wrong with those type of books if you are just having fun or looking to make few hundred bucks to $1k a season.

All in all spicy, research exchanges because thats where you should be angry towards knowing how much money you could have saved. There is a huge difference if you can pick 53% winners long term with hardly any vig and fees compared to an average of -110 lines.

Its going to be a good day for all.

@nawlins51

Drop me a DM on Twitter 

@vanzack

 Will create one . I know I must seem old lol

@vanzack

"It's me"

@vanzack 

I know I stated before in the past that the fair thing to do is to just post the W/L unit record and let people calculate themselves. You did it one week last year but not sure why you resorted back to your old no vig ways. So for example, so far this year your Win is 26.75u and your Loss is -31.5u. If people want to calculate with the majority -110 vig, they can easily do it by multiplying the loss by 1.1 which would be -34.65u, so in total would be down -7.9u. I still don’t see a point of a no vig record when you already said yourself that sometimes you bet other plays that won but not included in that record. So really, who does the no vig record benefit?

category 1 is what majority people could get so I thought that was the fairest way to keep record.

category 2, I checked out lowvig but even that the average juice is -105 and not even juice. So a no vig record still doesn’t make sense.

Category 3, I checked out 4casters and it’s invite only and it says not available in US, so how are you getting around and making your bets on that? It’s just not readily available for the majority.

One last thing, I’m not calling you out for no reason at all. I know for a fact that you went in other threads before to call them out on their “fake” lines. But do you really want me to waste both our times for me to go back and search and bump up all those threads that you called out? If you read my comment, I said you did it in others threads AND your own thread which I clearly showed an example to, but you chose to ignore this comment that you posted in your own thread this year:

"Everyone who posts it - if they are on the favorite they simply post -2.5, or if they are on the dog they simply post +3. I think that is disingenuous to what I try to do."

So Let me ask you again... who is this "everyone" that you're referring to? You’ve been ignoring this question.

Please acknowledge this and let’s move on.

@nawlins51

 Appreciate you trying to resolve this! Please look above for my comments to Van about each category. Which exchange is available in the US and not invite only? That was why I didn’t think the no vig record is very fair. And also the lowvig is still average -105 juice right? It’s still not even juice… can you use lowvig if you’re in the US but the state you’re in sports betting isn’t legal? Why would lowvig offer -105 juice when everywhere else offer -110, is it because they don’t do bonuses like bovada? I’m just really trying to understand what’s the catch 

@CASTORTROY

its borderline psychotic behavior

@bshoe43

 It's not borderline.

What are you Religious? 

There is no catch.  It is a competitive marketplace.  Lowvig isn't the only -105 site, I listed others as well.

Look spicycurry - I am acting in good faith here but you are really testing my patience - and the patience of everyone else reading this.

1.  You stated that I posted in other peoples threads about wrong lines, but you wont prove it or say it didnt happen.  Weird behavior.
2.  Why is it my responsibility to handhold people to no vig, -105, or worry about the laws of their state or country?  These lines are all widely available.  Moreover - you point to ME all the time.  "YOU dont get no vig".  So lets start off with that....  Will you now acknowledge that it is POSSIBLE for SOMEONE to get close to no vig?

I, along with most others, are here to talk sports, gambling, and sports gambling.  You are creating a distraction with no end.

If you acknowledge #2 can be possible, then it is obvious why assigning vig is a challenge.  If I ask you what is the price of a 6 pack of charmin - THERE IS NO RIGHT ANSWER.  Some buy it with coupons at walmart, and others pay double at Whole foods, and if you live in Alaska it is quadruple.  

It is obvious that you are learning your way around this world - and for some reason have a hard on for things you may not have been exposed to.  There are lots of options when it comes to vig, and just like coupon cutting if you work hard you can get it even cheaper.

Anyone who bets at a category 1 book deserves what they get...  LESS PROFIT AND MORE LOSS.  I cant help that.  But dont tell me what I can and cant do with my own stuff.  I do it every day, every week, every year.

This is the Perfect example of why I rarely post. Obviously that dude lost his ass and is bitter, remember you're the conductor of your account and you're in control of the bet you make at the end of the day. I was on Tennessee and Detroit but I kept that to myself. Some of us are betting real numbers on these games not pocket change. Last thing we want is to be bothered with BS after a loss... People ask me to post all the time because I win but nah I'm good...

@spicycurry

 Hey no problem just trying to help. Lowvig is available to US players. So is bookmaker which I am sure you know this as bookmaker is one of the largest offshore books in the world.

As for exchanges, Like I said, some are invite only. Some you will have to get invited and be creative. Living in the USA unfortunately has barriers as US law protects US corporations over US citizens. Just how it is. Thats a topic for another day and this probably isn't the correct place to get into that lol.

You have to be creative or even have friends family in another location to use a lot of benefits if you are a pro bettor. Think about it, whats the difference with you trying to figure out how to get in an exchange and some sharp who lives in Vegas who is banned by sportsbooks having to use a runner? If you are a pro you have to adapt to the laws of countries and businesses refusal of service.

Whats not fair is the amount of hurdles one has to cross as a pro investor in sports. If you are too good you get kicked. If you live in certain countries you cant use this. If you live in the USA and in certain states you cant do anything. You have to be creative and at the end of the day. You may not get exact plus money on your bets but by figuring it all out you can reduce juice.

You may not be able to obtain all the outs someone else has but you can get mighty close. Many many pro's are getting even money with fees so very small its laughable on very large bets. Look around twitter and other places.

One thing I have learned in sports gambling is nobody gives up secrets. Because secrets are an edge. Edges in this business do not last long. The post Vanzack made about books with the 3 categories is valuable information. That alone is worth its weight in gold. Just remember sometimes shit doesnt align and we cant play at the same places or get the same line. We can both be at Bovada and I got a better line at plus money and moved the line against you before you can lay some action.

Anyway glad we could talk this out and its time to figure out the plan of action for NFL NCAAFB and soccer for some.

@vanzack

 Man you really don’t get it do you? You totally ignored everything that I tagged you in above again lol you not answering my questions is just proving that I’m right Hahahaha

Testing your patience eh? Someone is getting rattled!! I actually enjoy this back and forth since I know I’m right and it’s quite satisfying proving you’re wrong.

1. You keep bringing up other people’s threads that you call out in, tell you what.. I’ll bump it up when I have time just for you then? In the meantime, are you gonna respond to my question that I asked multiple times or nah? Here I’ll copy/paste and post it again for ya 

If you read my comment, I said you did it in others threads AND your own thread which I clearly showed an example to, but you chose to ignore this comment that you posted in your own thread this year:

"Everyone who posts it - if they are on the favorite they simply post -2.5, or if they are on the dog they simply post +3. I think that is disingenuous to what I try to do."

So Let me ask you again... who is this "everyone" that you're referring to? You’ve been ignoring this question nonstop hahahaha

2. You said it yourself, lowvig is -105 not even juice. So why are you still using no vig in your totals recap? You never answered my question on how you’re using 4casters when it’s not available in the US. Don’t you think that’s misleading for you to use no vig then if that book is invite only and NOT available for the majority?

3. You claim that you don’t care about your record on here so then why are you even keeping a no vig record? Who does that benefit? People want actual records on what they could bet, not fake ones that you could only get on an exchange that is not even available in the US.

It is SO obvious that you want to keep that no vig record just so you can pad your stats. And for some reason you have a hard on for keeping a no vig record when I already suggested a simple solution for you to just have W/L unit record instead. What was the point of you asking for suggestions when you won’t even listen to others? Oh I know why… it’s because you think you’re always right! Look yourself in the mirror bud, if so many people on here and Twitter question your no vig record wouldn’t you get a hint that you’re the problem this whole time? You just need to be taught a lesson to not be so stubborn!

@nawlins51

 Thank you sir! Your post was very informative and fair. So if lowvig is -105 shouldn’t he at least use -105 as his record instead of a no vig record? You said it yourself… using an exchange is hard in the US, so proving my point why is he still using a no vig record then if the common people can’t use that in the US? 

vanzack says he could cares less about his record on here, yet he’s too stubborn to change his no vig record to a W/L units record where people can calculate their own vig. If he really didn’t care, then he would listen to suggestions but you’re right his big ego gets in his way.

and lastly, sorry this is nothing against you. I was ready to squash the beef, but his big ego got in his way and he clearly thinks he’s never wrong so I will continue to own him until he acknowledges that what he’s doing is just as dishonest as those people who he says are putting out “fake” lines out there.

@vanzack

 Just a mention to other serious EU gamblers that your winnings in Matchbook (not sure about other exchanges) are taxable income unlike in Pinnacle where taxes are already paid. Dont know about other countries but in Finland they sure found out, learned it the hard way when I had one great NFL season.

Anyways keep up the good work

@spicycurry

  A lot of things are hard but not impossible. Try and just look into those exchanges even if you cant trade on them, You can see the lines and how good they are. The only experience you will miss is as a maker, by seeing if you can get action on a very soft line.

Just try to find peace spicy.

@Woniac

 Interesting info. In what way are taxes at Pinny paid? 

@vanzack

Interesting Nitro didn't limit you.

I have very recreational book experience with them. Got limited after about 4 weeks playing. They limited me on every market, not only on ones I played to that point.

They limited me also on withdrawals and my every withdrawal request gets "randomly picked for inspection which can take several days". 

 Harder and harder to tell my kids they aren’t fuckered in the future with this many mouth breathers.

Category 1:  The recreational book:  These are all books that will limit anyone who shows signs of winning, or does win.  They all charge -110 (or higher).  Draftkings, fanduel, caesars, betmgm, hardrock.  If anyone says they bet big at these books (let’s say 5 figures), they are a longterm loser guaranteed.

Totally disagree.  -108 and -110 isn’t going to be the difference between being long term lower or winner. 

Look up Haralabob. He became a millionaire crushing NBA.

Its not why you think.  Its because these books ban or limit anyone who bets this amount and wins.

Spicycurry will now want me to include Finnish taxes in my record also.