20 cities in America on fire.

It least here in LA area, things seem much better under control tonight.   Cops are not messing around w the curfew, and have probably arrested close to 250+ people tonight  

It matters. And it's tragic. And it should be addressed more indeptly both in the community and in the media but answer this: Shouldn't the police be held to a higher standard than common hoods and gangsters? Simple yes or no.

Common creeps molest children everyday. These atrocities don't get the same attention as when a catholic priest is involved. Is it because these children matter less? No. It's two things. One is just more sensational, so the media clings to it because they don't care about children, or black people, they just care about ratings. The other reason is the catholic priests should be held up to a higher standard than a common creep. Just like a flipping officer of the law should be held up to a higher standard than a common hood. Either you're too dense to see this, which I don't believe, i've never insulted you and i'm not gonna start now, or you're purposely deflecting. And someone who calls out midknight of the old republic for deflecting as much as you do, I would say it's poor form.

A lot of the points you are making aren't really up for debate. I certainly haven't tried to debate them. Yes, the riots and looting are as poor a representation of our country the actions the "protest". Yes, there are grave issues that plague the black community, most of which only we, as black people, can change but I ask again, shouldn't the police be held to a higher standard than common crimanals and hoods? There are professions that are held to a higher standard. Doctors, teachers, pilots, police officers. We seem to still hold as these other professions to a high standards but cops? We have multiple people saying, "Well gang members kill people, what's the big deal about cops doing it?" Again, you've never heard someone say, "Creeps molest kids everyday. What's the big deal about priests doing it." Our standards should be higher. And that's the problem with police more than racism. We our putting people on forces that lack the mental stability and critical thinking to handle a very difficult and high stress job. I mean, most inner cities aren't even as bad as they were in the 80's and 90's. Could you imagine if these guys had to be cops back then?

It has been my experience as a white man, that half of the white Americans clearly hold anti-black views. With that in mind.. it should not be of any surprise that many white Police officers mirror the view of the the white community ..I can't think of any vetting that can be done with new officer recruits that could change that..or the views of the existing officers nation wide. Knowing that is why I say blacks (fair or not ) need to be much more careful than whites when being arrested ..I guess this is where the white privilege comes in..since Police officers do not look at white offenders in the same way is part of the reason we don't see the same types of arrest as George Floyd and other like arrest and that officers know whites in general have an easier excess to an attorney.

I still stand my my statement Stu,,whatever you do respect the officers of the law enough ( and for your well being )to not resist arrest...I think more whites realize this than blacks do..that is one reason you don't see as many arrest that turn into violent injury or death with whites..that's the reality..

Having said all that the police officers are only allowed to use the minimum amount of force necessary to protect themselves and bring the suspect into police custody. Never resist arrest since resistance could lead to the use of more force and that's were bad things can happen..

Respect Authority and follow instructions.  If arrestees followed this advice when they were arrested, the outcomes would be much better !  

Of course they should ; is that the issue ?   Black Lives Matter was born w/ Trayvon Martin.  Was George Zimmerman a cop ?   What about a  few weeks ago in Georgia.  Were those white guys cops ? 

The issue isn't police brutality.  It's a "notion" that there is "systemic racism" in our culture, when everyday we see many more fine examples of white & black people getting along just fine..   "Black Lives Matter" only matters when it fits their narrative.  

I'm still waiting for the poor mother in Chicago who lost her son to another black man, hold up a sign saying "All Black Lives Matter."

Where have I ever said I support looting, rioting, or the BLM movement? I think people like tox, and maybe you as well, love to argue this stuff so you need an opponent but i'm not the one. It cracks me up whenever I here someone bring up Chicago. Some who have never been to the city. You know, there are cities with higher murder rates than Chicago. It just shows how little original though there is and a hive mind mentality. It is that same hive mind mentality that points to the fact that there is still racism and prejudice in this country. Likewise, it is a hive mentality that leads to the devalued viewpoint on life in our black community. And two wrongs don't make a right. Everytime someone brings up Chicago, they are just echoing the sentiment that, "If black lives don't matter to themselves, why should they matter to me? Why should I care if a cop kills an unarmed black man? Why should I care if a vigilante does? And that is a dangerous frame of mind that is a big a part of the problem. Nobody, arleast not me, is ignoring the fact that the self-inflicted issues in the black community are a bigger issue than police shootings but again, the police should be held to a higher standard.

I think one of the biggest changes we need to make in the black community is removing the stigma of becoming cops ourselves. Remove this idea that all cops are come and somehow getting a decent civil service job w/a good pention is a bad thing. As far as youe numbers, I wouldn't even say wouldn't even say half of white america is anti-black. I would say certain hispanic races, many east asian races, east indians.... deep down by the numbers are probably more anti-black. And there is a high percentage of whites that are fiercely pro-black. I would say this country is less racist than it even was in the 90s and that there are less racist cops. This is why I think it's a vetting issue. I'm not saying we need to weed out racist cops. I don't think many of the cops are going to 'group" rallies. I wouldn't even say many are racists. More so prejudice. The same can be said for many white people and there is a huge difference between the two. As i've said many times, many of these cops lack the mental toughness and critical thinking under pressure to become cops. It's like as things have become better in this country, we have become mentally and emotionally weaker. And some of these mentally and emotionally weak are making it onto forces.

For starters, where did I mention that "you do" support these things.. I stake my points.  Not putting words in your mouth.. C'mon now.  

And the last point in bold.  "Nobody is ignoring the fact that self-inflicted issues in the black community are a bigger issue...  "    You would have a hard time convincing anybody this is true.  The MSM makes it so.  

Funny story. When my brother was, maybe, early 20s, he had a hook-up through our uncle for a good job as a CO at San Quentin. He was like, "Heck no! That's like being a cop. I've got friends in there." Six or so years later, i'm now 18. My uncle's near retirement. He comes to me and says, "I made this offer to your brother. He turned me down. I'm retiring soon. I'm making it to you." I was 18. With overtime it would've equated to a 6 figure job to start with a good pension. My answer? "Heck no! That's like being a cop." It worked out for me. I have no regrets but what if things hadn't worked out for me? And frankly, while I make 6 fugures, and enjoy my life a lot more than if I had a soul crushing job like a CO, my pension is no where near as good as if I was a CO. I'm done some gansterish shite but i'm no gangster. Well.... let's just say I don't have a criminal record. I'm from the hood but also from a good family. I had no reason to turn down that job other than the stigma against law enforcement in the black community. It's slave mentality and we need to break that cycle of thinking.

When I say nobody, I mean it in the sense that i'm not. There are plenty that ignore this issue. And you're right, the media has as much blood on their hands as any cop. More so.

Stu, I only bring up Chicago because I was born and raised there. I now live in the burbs, but have been working on the west side for 19 years. So I'm not bringing up "Chicago" as a talking point or base ground for discussion in the way you mentioned. Just telling it like how I see it, and experience it.

You made a great point about the cops level of qualifications. I'll tell you right now what has happened, since Laquon McDonald was killed. All the veteran cops retired. Some early, some got different jobs. But they got the hell out of Dodge. Since then I don't ever see a cop over 30 on the street. They don't have the experience needed.

You say that the Police should be held to a higher standard, and I agree. Unfortunately, this higher standard is pretty much us expecting them to be 100% perfect at all times. That's tough, especially in a field where your life is in danger at all times.

For the cop from Minnesota who held his knee on the victims neck for 9 minutes. That was a total failure by the police department keeping him on the street. He had 10 prior violations of using excessive force. He was a bad seed, probably had anger issues and then some. Police can not slip up when choosing who to employ and can't let things slide.

What I find frustrating about all this (as you can tell), is that nothing material will change in our society from all this mess... Nothing.  It is all for not... Are we supposed to tell (white) cops that suffocating a human being is bad ?   What different actions will police forces around the country take ?    

And perhaps more importantly,  Nothing will change the trajectory of success in our inner cities.... Unless they make changes themselves to improve outcomes in society.   

I know you're from Chicago and wasn't calling you out.

How do we fix the situation?

Hundreds of years of racism, police brutality, poverty, and inequality boiled over to today.

And like you said Stu, most people aren't racist these days, most people want equal rights, most cops do their jobs the right way.

I wouldn't even know where to start. 

Very well said... 

I grew up a son of a (city of 50,000) police officer. As a 10 year old I watched my off-duty dad arrest a black man who was breaking into cars. That man went for my fathers gun and I almost saw my father die, he got his gun back, thank you God.

In junior high I had to watch my back and not get caught alone with multiple blacks. Just a fact of life, way it was.

As a young father I applied for a government job that required a civil service exam. Studied my ass off and placed 4th out of 114 applicants. There were three openings and I never even got an interview. Affirmative Action placed three lower scoring minorities in the jobs. Two quit within 4 months and only then did I get an interview and a job.

Ten years later I applied for one of two supervisor positions required 2 job related licenses which I had. I finished 2nd in the interview process, but again Affirmative Action promoted a minority with only one of the two required licenses. At that point I changed employers and continued to succeed in my career. 

I don't hold any grudges. Have had many coworkers and friends over the years of all colors, races, and sexual preferences. GOOD PEOPLE ARE GOOD PEOPLE. BAD PEOPLE ARE JUST THAT, BAD.

People, it is NOT about Black vs White.

It is NOT about Republicans vs Democrats. Currently I can't stand most of either party.

IT IS ABOUT GOOD VS EVIL. RIGHT vs WRONG!!

When any race puts their RACE BEFORE RIGHT OR WRONG they are doomed to repeat their failures. 

All the Black on Black violence goes silent, even amongst their own race. They are dooming themselves with their own silence. 

In Atlanta a black store owner is above his store in a living area I presume. He hears windows smash downstairs, looks out the window to see fellow blacks looting his store. His reaction? "Oh well, that's it." Does he call police? NO! Next morning he is trying get his bent front door to lock, he shakes it up and down. Passerby sees this and calls police, suspicious man looks like he is trying to break in. Police arrive, he tells them he is the owner and they leave. His reaction? SEE, JUST BECAUSE I WAS BLACK SOMEONE CALLED THE POLICE!!! Yet, WHO LOOTED HIS STORE?? BROTHERS, that's who.

There are some things that are difficult to discuss for many reasons.  People are presented with bad information.  People believe what they want to believe.  People believe what they have been exposed to is the case everywhere.

The dicey part is to explain to folks that what they believe is simply not the case based on evidence.  Because people will label you a certain way because you do not see it ‘their way’.  It is even trickier in an online forum because the folks do not know you at all — so, they can easily presume you to be something that you are not.

With all of that as a qualifier — this seems to be the only thing in the news people want to ‘discuss/debate/argue’ about.

You guys have all said things that are true.  But you each have said some things that are simply not true.   I would encourage you to research or study this subject more — if for no other reason than to be more informed and to see the evidence to discuss it.

Yes, it is fine to use Chicago because that is what the media uses — because the numbers are so high.  Therefore, it makes for better news hits. Yes, there are cities with a higher rate — but that is not what the media uses.  To be consistent you have to do it that way.  Because the media does not use the number of each race that is killed by police.  So, for the comparison to be univocal you have to compare apples to apples, so to speak.

To say the age is younger now in Chicago is not completely true.

The 11th and maybe the 3rd would be an area where this would be true.  I don’t think you, in particular, spend a lot of time in those though.  Your point would be valid there.  But it would be invalid nearly everywhere else — and, overall, to say you see this trend. Maybe I misunderstood — and you meant in this area.  But, obviously, as officers get more experience they opt for ‘safer’ jobs and even gravitate to desk jobs, etc.  However, this is a completely different topic and has always been the issue — in any city.

To say there are a disproportionate amount of black officers is wrong as well.  Maybe the blacks you guys know do not choose to be policemen.  But the percentage is right in line with the population and usually so in each city.  Can’t recall off the top of my head — but, for example, seems like Chicago’s is around 35%?

A black is more likely to be killed by a minority policeman than a white one.  The studies show this.  But the media does not present this.  Because it does not promote their liberal agenda.

  The minority police tend to have more of a bias than white police.  The studies show this.  But the media does not present this.  Because it does not promote their liberal agenda.

When examined situationally, whites are more likely to be killed by police.  The studies show this. But the media does not present this. Because it does not promote their liberal agenda.

There are lots and lots of tangents in this discussion.  But to get anywhere you have to be open about what is really true and what is perception and promotion.

Having studied it and written on it and spoken on it — I have to admit that I was wrong about nearly a lot of what I believed and experienced myself for years.

I made another post for DAVID DORN, 77 yr old retired officer killed in St Louis. 

Heard Mayweather is financing memorial services for the late Mr. Floyd. That's great. Such a terrible lose of life. All life is precious, even a guy high on drugs trying to pass phony money. Actually I feel bad he was that messed up. 

Those cops must have had a reason to put him on the ground?? After all he was already in the backseat of a police car handcuffed. So what happened?? All those videos but not one showing him actually being put to the ground?? HARD TO BELIEVE. Even so, actions not at all justified. Four of them there and not one with enough sense to say stop. WOW! My late father was in Internal Affairs for a few years, he hated it. There are always bad employees in every job and cops are no different.

If people really believe in what is right, the late Mr. Dorn deserves as much attention as Mr. Floyd. But that won't happen unless those WHO BELIEVE IN RIGHT VS WRONG STAND UP!!

Which city and state do you live in? Which industry fo you work in? And how do you know you were passed over because of affirmative action? Affirmative action largely doesn't even exist anymore as has never really significantly existed in the private sector. Quotas have been ruled unconstitutional. Several states, including liberal California, have outlawed affirmative action all together. There are loopholes exploited in certain industries and at certain universities but your story sounds somewhat made up, with all do respect. For the record, I don't believe in affirmative action. I do believe in an even playing field, which so many people of color, women, ect. lack even still today. I think affirmative action is one of those things that had merit, it's heart was in the right place, but was probably poorly executed at best. Like most such things it is fading and that's all you can really ask.

Saginaw Mich, 1978, ten years later 1988. I too understood what affirmative action was trying to do. And it did leave a bitter taste. I let it make me stronger.

I requested and they flat out told me Affirmative action made the decision. In 1988 several fellow employees encouraged me to sue, I did not.

Not saying it was recent, just pointing out almost all people feel some sort discrimination.

Sorry, not going to mention my profession just for my own privacy. Also, in 1986 I looked at becoming a Michigan Conservation Officer. The then governor Blanchard was to hire 110 new CO's. Again, took a civil service exam, knew I did well, never an interview. Local CO told me, "Your a white male, no chance."

As the song goes; "That's just the way it is" so I moved on.

Let me add, I was never a police officer or in any law enforcement position.