Gas shortage

@StumpTownStu

 No dog in this argument. Said my piece 

@Raiders22

 Who doesn't like it though? Who complained about the gas prices? Who brought up Orange Juice? (Here's a hint. It was you.) Personally, I don't have an issue with the oil industry, or the price of gas. If we are talking about the price of gas, I simply ssid the current price has little to do with the very politically based charges that are out there. All I said was that price hikes have more to do with profits than regulations. You never refuted this but went off on a tangent about profit margins. And who exactly are you guys, raider?

And where was it shown that the oil industry doesn't manipulate it's market?

It's funny how raider tries to bring up arguments being politically based when probably everything he posts on this site is politically based. Nothing I post on this site is politically based. I'm not a democrat. I'm not a liberal. I'm an environmentalist. I believe industries should have some regulation, specifically where public lands are involved but I support the timber industry. I support the oil industry. I just don't believe any industry should be given carte blanche. So if you want to stay on subject instead of making a very politically based argument based on whataboutism, we can talk. All you have said is, "This industry has higher profit margins... That industry gets subsidies as well..."

My point was that oil producers manipulate their market. Are you refuting this?

My point was that ceasing construction on an as yet operational leg of a very much still operation system of pipelines does little to affect the price of gas in 2021. Unless you get into oil futures and speculation, which opens it's own can of worms. Are you refuting this?

My point was than ceasing to issue new drilling permits on public lands does little to affect the price of gas in 2021, again, unless we are talking about futures and speculation. Are you refuting this?

I'm saying the issue isn't that all of a sudden we aren't producing enough oil, which is the very political narrative that is pushed, that sheep buy into, and people like you, who know better, bolster. Let's get back on subject. Why are gas prices higher? Global demand is higher, right? That's very basic economics, not some political action. You're dancing around this, and changing the subject, because everything you say on this site is politically biased. Nothing I say on this site is politically biased. I don't fully align with any political party. I support policies, not politicians and parties.

The orange juice part was a quote.  So I guess you can say I brought it up because I used the quote.  But the guy’s point was what I was bringing up. Not orange juice itself.  

Not saying you are complaining about high prices.  I am not either.  I am not one of those people that ride all around town looking to save 2 cents. 

I am simply pointing out that it is not the huge profit margin folks think it is. 

It is not that they are manipulating the markets either.  

It is way more from the ‘green’ crowd and politically-driven.  

And I am for a good environment but not at the expense the folks from that part want.  

I also am not defending oil either.  No more than I do any other business.  

People just always follow this same agenda of hating CEO’s pay, oil companies, drug companies, healthcare industry, or any big company, etc.   Very little of it is ever warranted.  I mean people are upset with Amazon and Bezos — but look at all the convenience they provide, etc. Same with the way folks got mad at Walmart — even though they were providing a very convenient shopping experience.  

So, no problem at all from me about holding them accountable with their drilling etc.  

Of course, we need a good environment and need to strive for cleaner energy.  

But this is not the complete issue with the environmental movement is all. 

@Raiders22

 No one said the oil industry had huge profit margins. No one mentioned profit margins at all. You brought up profit margins, interestingly not sheer profit volume but profit margins, to push a narrative. The oil industry will never have the profit margins of a soda company. There's a huge difference in logistics there but make no mistake, the oil industry isn't hurting for cash. And they do receive tax incentives and subsidies. You can mention every other industry that does as well but this thread was not about other industries. Now I have no issue with the profits of oil companies, nor the price of gas. I have no issue with fracking nor drilling, though there are environmental ramifications. As of now, the end justifies the means. I'm also open to the exploration of alternative energy sources. It's common sense. When you have a finite resource, you explore alternatives. What I am against is lobby funded, politically driven narratives. And I am vehemently against any industry being given carte blanche, which is what industries like oil, timber, pharmaceuticals want. Regulation isn't bad. It's our friend. It keeps the wolves from goarding themselves on the sheep. They still get plenty fat, do they not? Why are prescription drugs more expensive in America than other countries? I'm sure you know the answer to this. Most don't. You do and are ok with it. I do and am not.

I'm getting off on a tangent myself now. Back on subject, the price at the pump has much  less to do with current legislation than it does with simple supply an demand. Current executive orders may, may, affect supply in the future but it isn't affecting it now. If we want to get into how futures and speculation affect current prices, we can, but that's not an issue with supply either. It's an issue with our financial model. Maybe we shouldn't have a system where you can wager on the value of something in the future when said wagers affect the value in the here and now. I mean, we are talking about a necessary commodity, not freakin' pokemon cards. Maybe our whole financial institution is flawed. That's a debate either for another day, or just not worth having. What we are talking about is the price of gas. The supply of gas. Those drilling permits will eventually be issues. Keystone XL will eventually be completed but does the current price of gas actually have much to do with these things, other than in a speculative way? It has to do with an industry deciding to recoup covid losses by charging a little more because they can. I mean, they even tried to use the truck driver excuse. Granted, there is a current shortage of truck drivers across industries but I promise you, the oil industry has not been affected to the point of dictating the current price jumps. There's a shortage? Let's talk shortages when anyone of you goes to the gas station and there's no gas. Or you can only fill up on mondays, wednesdays, and fridays. Some people buy into any politically based bullshit they are told. Still others, like raider, know better but play along because it simply fits their narrative.

As the article and quotes referenced the average person does, indeed, think this.  Ask some people — you will be amazed. 

Soda company?  I’m not sure I would compare any one company.  

But as an industry itself — way lower than people think.  

It is still ranked way, way down in the list of industries as I have pointed out.  So, pick whatever industry you would like to compare — and chances are the oil industry is lower.  

My point is that when people are shown this — they switch it to the total money or ‘volume’.  Then when you correct this.  They switch it again to ‘manipulation’.  Then they bring up subsidies.  Then they bring up greed.  They never just outright admit that they have an agenda.  

That is all I am saying. 

I would like to think the average person understands why gas is higher in the summer — but they do not.  That is all I am saying.  

But to say that political policies do not affect some of this is very lacking in followup is my point on that. 

I wasn't the one who started bringing up other industries for comparison. Soda. Orange Juice. You did. I wasn't the one who brought up profit margins. It really had nothing to do with this thread. You did. To say that the oil industry, by it's sheer nature, will never have high profit margins, but that their total profits are extremely high is an absolute fact. To say that they are a subsidized industry is an absolute fact. You can deflect by mentioning other subsidized industries but then there's that whataboutism I mentioned. I doesn't negate that it's a fact. To say they manipulate the market outright would be debatable but to say they have a history of doing things like, say, shutting down a refinery for maintenance in the middle of summer, driving up already peak prices, is an absolute fact. Whether that is manipulation or happenstance, who knows. I'm just speaking the facts. Like the fact that when the prices get too low, cartels literally limit production to drive them up. Is that not manipulation? These are all facts. No agenda. Just facts. You're the only one who has an agenda. Or maybe not. Maybe we both have agendas. My agenda is that industries should have some regulation. And that we should limit the pillaging of public lands and resources. Save some for future generations but that has nothing to do with my posts in this thread. My posts here were simply to shed light on what actually drives up gas prices. You, on the other hand, came to push a narrative. That is why you brought up profit margins compared to other industries and how other industries also receive subsidies. It's deflection.

Yes environmentalists want a shift away from oil. But no believes that fossil fuel  burning will be illegal tommorow next year or even in the next decade. 

Alternatives wind ,solar ,hydro methane, biogasoline, hydrogen  , or wood by products , are now a cost effectuve planning if oil stays near or above 50 a barrel or 95 cents a gallon for Light crude. 

This then drives transportation,  marketing and delivery of fuel products to the consumer.  And fuel tax.

These are the demands of consumer budget driven market. These must be addressed as products availible.if no electric cars or a quick way to recharge the batteries the technology must be adapted to placing a electric car on the market as inexpensive as fuel and as easily to recharge it's battery. 

Oil has shown month after month of great profit margins I can not recall a losing year in the dividend column for Exxon mobile or shell corporation.

This is a perfect storm for price hikes, big oil would like to do better, the nature of corporate America is get more by spending less. 

It is what drives innovation necessity,  so it could be that both the democrats and the oil companies agree to higher fossil fuel costs.

In the long term this will price oil out of the e ergy market as other forms become economical

As for politicians and big oil making great bed fellows I belie w fuel tax on gas and diesel is one of the largest contributors to the federal budget and that money is needed.

As for some shortage there should be a surplus in oil. Take amount of gas tax last year went to the federal general

 Fund and compare it to the last 5 years. That drip in re eye directly shows how much less fossil fuel road products were actually used.

2018Tax paid @x pennies to gallon 2020 tax paid @ y pennies per gallon. And be left with how many gallons sold then and now...

@nature1970

Many of those industries, such as oil and gas, the pharmaceutical industry, and the legal field, have always had a negative image. In many cases, perception has improved in recent years for some of these. In the health-care industry, positive perception increased

Other industries on this list, such as banking and real estate, have not always had such a strong negative image, but have developed a more negative profile in recent years. In the case of these two specific industries, this may be largely the result of the subprime mortgage crisis. Banking has seen the biggest increase in negative image since the survey was first conducted

1 - Pharmaceuticals

2 - Federal Government

3 - Healthcare

4 - Advertising and Public Relations

5 - Oil and Gas Industry

All of those are ahead of the Legal Field and Banking for the most hated industries.

My contention is only that this is almost entirely perception.  We think all members of Congress are corrupt, for example.  They are not.  Drug companies are ripping people off -- they are not.  Oil companies make too much money -- they do not.  Oil companies get subsidies -- so do others.

If an isolated incident happens -- like shutting down a refinery for repairs in summer -- then we think it is always intentional to drive up prices.  It is not.

If a company pays a CEO a 'large' amount it means they do not care about their employees.  This is not the case.

Sure the price of gas goes up in the summer -- this is obvious.  My point, is that does not matter at all to the folks that hate the oil industry already.

Any of these incidents by themselves do not indicate anything of the sort.

What it does do, however, is reinforce people's perception and opinions that they already hold and want to believe.

I was hoping the articles and quotes I used emphasized this, instead of copying the whole article.  I was not trying to get onto several other topics. 

So, you have multiple things going on.  Gas prices going up, gas shortages happening.  Some folks already hate the oil folks and this reinforces their bias.  Others hate the current political group in charge and this reinforces their bias also.  People want to believe they are right on both sides -- even when the numbers do not reflect it.

This was the original question I answered.  7 Year high.  The highest since 2014.

Then this one I responded to.  

I agree with the last statement -- Everybody picks a side and runs with it.

Ok so liheap. Low income heating energy assistance program is good because it subsidizes big oil... but food stamps is bad for subsidizing retail food markets,.. And sec 8 must be entity dreadful for allowing liquidity and fluidity in the housing industry. ? At raiders...

1 - Pharmaceuticals

2 - Federal Government

3 - Healthcare

4 - Advertising and Public Relations

5 - Oil and Gas Industry.

Do you find the griviances against these industries unfounded. The makers of oxy volitile  paid a huge protection from furthur liability  near a billion dollars.

The federal government we are swore to defend so really doesn't. Matter it the office of the President commander in chief of the world most powerful defense force.

Health care is modernizing to corrective mrna therapy in enhancing organ tissue in him a s to assimilate a 21 year old.  It take 10 years but the therapy works. 

Organ and limb  designing fabrication and I station procedures will continue to improve. 

Pharmaceuticals for generic patterns of older than 30 year old fabricated medicine should not be boycotted cornered and spiked to extremes an epidermal pen for bee stings to some who allergic it can be fatal now costs 400 a pen stick it did cost 20... for an example.

Advertising and public relations is a fancy word for damage control and favorable press. Trust if you give CBS 40 million for an advertising budgets certain things obviously doesn't need to be reported. Leveraging I suppose... but a bit weak. 

The people who aren't trusted government workers. Dhhs clerks,  policemen, district attourney tax and assessment clerks and general laperpushers from dumb to social SECURITY... but this is a necessary evil as very few ever wanted that job to begin with I suppose to them days have their perks...

Oil and gas has been I creadinv and decreasing prices on a daily basis it the forever floating live market in delivery supplies and incoming Inventory logistics .

If gas needs to be removed so new bar be containers can off load. Inventory needs space and fluctuations in prices is demanded. More space at storage need lower gas price at pump less space need surplus inventory less space needed and incoming inventory shortage than greater price to remain solvent and allow reserve until inventory reenished schedualed.

This is not rocketry or astro quantum physics of space distortIons within star systems.... it a calculations in logistics dealing with material refinery supply chains to metered gas pump within a personal experience millions of times a day....

Nature —

No.  I have addressed the subsidy issue on here before.  Not a big fan of them for any industry. There can be a good case made for them certain times in some areas, maybe. 

Not sure I would say they are unfounded at all.  My point is just that folks already have their minds made up and anything that happens generates the news pieces — then makes people say, ‘see, I told you so.’

My point is people tend to dislike companies as they get bigger, like Walmart or Amazon. Or even people as they make more and more money.  They just go straight to the greed aspect and the profit issue.  They say it as if people and businesses are not supposed to be trying to do better and make more.  

I fully get that some people and some businesses have given themselves a bad name.  But I am not for the lumping all together.  

Example, I use are the bad trucker that runs you off the road — that doesn’t mean the other 99% are the same.  Or the all cops are bad mentality because there is an isolated incident from time to time.  Etc. Etc.   

Yes, it has been increasing and decreasing.  For many reasons.  Since this is such a dynamic and complex industry — you cannot automatically say they are greedy and manipulating prices to generate profits.  Some of that does go on — but that is not the sole reason for a gas shortage or a price increase.  People just automatically say that.  

Not to pick on the one guy.  That wasn’t my intent at all.  

But look at the quote above.  

Of course there were stations that were empty.  This was a sincere concern for many people in that affected area.  

Then read the next part.  Goes straight into greed and corrupt talk about falsely inflating prices. 

Then later questions someone who says prices are high — by saying they are always high in summer because of demand.  

So, you cannot have it both ways all the time.  The logic is not good here.  

There were actual shortages — easily verified — through no real fault of the industry.  

So, then the ‘conspiracy-type’ talk begins.   

There are actual reasons, that are real, for prices to go up besides just the summer demand AND it is not necessarily greed.  

That was my overarching point.  

@Raiders22

 Where were there empty stations? We're not talking about shortages due to the hack. That's not what this thread is about. Where are/were these empty stations? You're good with changing the narrative on your own whim and dancing around the issue. I rhetorically asked Circ, him specifically, when was the last time he didn't pay a ton for gas in summer because he's a Californian like me. And we are use to paying a ton for gas in the summer. This thread was about the rising cost of gas and how the current administration has contributed to it. You have danced around this. You have brought up profit margins, when nobody really talking about. You brought up people hating industries. I don't hate the oil industry. As i've said, I appreciate the way they spread the wealth around. Everybody gets a taste in energy.

What I have said many times, which you continue to dance around, is that ceasing construction on an unoperational, as yet completed leg of a very much still operational pipeline system does nothing to affect current supply. Yes or no?

Ceasing to issue new permits for public lands does nothing to affect current supply. Yes or no? Don't hide from the question. Yes or no?

The oil industry manipulates prices using tactics such as flat out limiting production when prices are too low to drive the prices higher. Yes or no?

The only possible effect that recent policy changes could have on current prices is purely speculative. Yes or no?

I dare you not to change the subject, talk about the profit margins of other industries, talk about how people hate the oil industry when nobody has said that. I dare you to give a simple and honest yes or no answer instead of dancing around and question, and reframing the narrative, as you tend to do.

Does the oil industry not manipulate prices? What other industries do this? Like I said, i'm not the one who complained about the price of gas. I just called a spade a spade.

I'm not a democrat. I don't give a damn about Joe Biden. I wasn't defending him. I was defending the truth. The things I say on this site aren't politically based. I'm one of the few people that refuses to choose a side. Everything you say has a political lean. This is why you avoided the point about the role Joe Biden's policies have played in price hikes, or certainly the lack there of, and changed the narrative to profit margins and how people hate big business. The only effect his policy could have on current prices is from a purely speculative standpoint. 

https://nypost.com/2021/06/29/gas-prices-hit-7-year-high-as-stations-run-low-on-fuel/

https://abc7news.com/us-shortages-gas-shortage-2021-food-coming-chicken/10598712/#:~:text=With%20the%20bulk%20of%20chip%20production%20concentrated%20in,gas%20are%20parked%20because%20they%20don%27t%20have%20drivers.

https://abc7.com/gas-shortage-2021-colonial-pipeline-prices-panic-buying/10625599/

There have also been several fuel outages reported at gas stations across the country. Gas stations in Northern California, Colorado, and Iowa have run out of gas, according to Tom Kloza, the global head of energy analysis for the Oil Price Information Service...

GasBuddy analyst Patrick DeHaan told the publication that Indianapolis and Columbus, Ohio have also reported gas outages and the number of stations in the US facing shortages is continuing to grow.

https://sharylattkisson.com/2021/05/15000-gas-stations-out-of-gas/

The following is from May 13.  This thread was started on May 11.  So, this is what was in the news at the time:

More stations were out of gas in Florida, Maryland, South Carolina, Tennessee, and Mississippi early on May 13 compared to the night of May 12, according to GasBuddy.

In Florida, 30 percent of 7,564 stations were out of fuel as of 6 a.m. Central Time. In Maryland, 34 percent of the state’s 1,869 stations could no longer serve customers. More than half of South Carolina’s 3,084 stations ran out of gas, along with 34 percent of Tennessee’s stations. Seven percent of Mississippi’s stations are out of gas compared to 6 percent the night prior.

StumpTownStu

POSTED: May. 12, 2021 - 2:27 PM ET

#26

Quote Originally Posted by I_Need_A_Detox:

Semiconductor shortages, beef shortages, 6.1% unemployment with no willing labor force, lumber and corn prices rising several hundred bps per day, and now no gas. Nice job Biden!

Quote Originally Posted by I_Need_A_Detox:

Crisis in the Middle East

Quote Originally Posted by I_Need_A_Detox:

Crisis at the border

Quote Originally Posted by I_Need_A_Detox:

We're now shipping fuel in from Europe. It took a little over 100 days to go from energy independence to gas shortages under this administration.

Quote Originally Posted by I_Need_A_Detox:

4 months ago we had $1.50 a gallon gasoline and peace in the Middle East What happened?

Quote Originally Posted by I_Need_A_Detox:

I think what we should focus on is more stimulus money for people that don’t want to work and getting more females into power! And LGBQT rights!  the funniest thing about blaming biden for gas shortages, violence in the middle east, a poor jobs report, the border crisis, and a national crimewave is .... he probably has no idea what any of us are talking about.

Quote Originally Posted by I_Need_A_Detox:

Energy prices overall jumped 25% from a year ago, including a 49.6% increase for gasoline and 37.3% for fuel oil. Used car and truck prices, which are seen as a key inflation indicator, surged 21%, including a 10% increase in April alone.  Doing great Biden!

Quote Originally Posted by I_Need_A_Detox:

Materials parabolic, used cars parabolic, housing prices parabolic, food prices parabolic, fucking name something and it’s parabolic... can’t find workers, fixed salaried workers dusted and priced out of goods... and they have the nerve to say it’s just transitory lmaooooo  What a bunch of clowns

Then this reply on May 12: 

There's no gas shortage. That's fake news.