Immigration Issue

Right up front, I don't have all the answers & I believe we can all agree we have a serious problem. I'm also a firm believer that building a wall is not the answer. Having said that, I'm open to hearing anyone's solutions. Perhaps we should have some "guidelines" so this thread doesn't go right down the crapper.

Can we agree that the "why" are they coming isn't immediately import? People are coming for various reasons.

Can we agree that the current management of the issue is abysmal? 

Can we agree to speak about the future rather than the past?

Pretty simple, right? Ok, I'll start..

A possible solutions that comes to mind is expanding the "Sponsor" program. Those who have made it to the shores of SFLA in many cases have family already established here that will provide housing/employment. It's working here. I see this as a possible win-win.

Sending the undocumented back to their respective countries does not stop them from trying again & again. What's the answer?  

Do those who have overstayed their visa's get to stay? What are our best options? 

Batter Up!

Stop employing the undocumented and force EVerify usage on all states, which won't happen here in California but that was a start to a solution...

Also, don't lend a hand out anymore....stop being so liberal with our welfare programs....

Both of these offer a step to a solution but no one has the balls to implement...therein lies the problem....Everify alone would cut down on more than half of the illegals trying to force their way in here to work, at least in California....verify every person is a legitimate citizen before anything is offered to them....if they want to come here and not be able to work or obtain benefits then so be it...I when I say welfare I mean anyone who is getting any handout from any government...if you are applying for welfare and you are a citizen fine, but if you are trying to claim someone else and they are not then you should lose your benefit as well...I believe these are the two main driving forces of why illegals come here and stay...we are a generous people and when I say we, I mean our government...no other country in the world provides the handouts that we give out and to non-citizens....you need to be a citizen to obtain government benefits....very simple...if i were to go to any other country and try to obtain benefits how do you think that will go...you cannot be the land of all the people when some of the people are not here for the right reasons...

https://refugeesmigrants.un.org/migration-compact

i am under the impression that most people in the US , Canada , Europe , '"The West" , aren't aware of the UN global compact for migration , link above 

you must be aware of this if you want to have a serious discussion 

https://refugeesmigrants.un.org/sites/default/files/180713_agreed_outcome_global_compact_for_migration.pdf

the list of the 23 objectives 

History shows increasing deterrence or immigration enforcement is ineffective in reducing illegal immigration.  Congress research service found that the most effective way to reduce illegal immigration is to expand legal pathways to enter and work legally.  Especially for rich and skilled immigrants that economy needs.  Polls show most Americans support policies that allow illegal immigrants already here and their children born in the US to earn residency or citizenship.  Federal government should do more to support communities experiencing rapid immigration growth.  However many members of congress fail to learn from history.

https://www.newsweek.com/no-theres-no-border-crisis-republicans-are-perpetuating-another-big-lie-opinion-1579671

https://www.expressnews.com/politics/article/DHS-chief-Mayorkas-testifies-before-House-17586552.php

https://wisconsinexaminer.com/2021/03/25/there-is-no-border-crisis/

2019; https://www.forbes.com/sites/stuartanderson/2019/01/17/falling-illegal-immigration-numbers-confirm-no-border-crisis/

https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2019/01/there-is-no-crisis-on-the-southern-border-none/

NOW STFU AND LISTEN TO JOE!!!

Uni let’s just all relax for a minute with the capital letters and the flagrant attitude , because midnight outlined a good and fair objective for this thread , and with the input of ALL those involved in this forum , speaking frankly and openly of course , I have no doubts that we will get some exciting results in a free flowing wave of discourse that we can all surf on together ……

So grab your board bro cuz it’s gonna be a fun ride ….

thank you for saying what you said midnight and for creating a thread that I’m sure will lead to something spectacular happening 

the set up and construction is Royal and pristine , and leaves no wiggle room for the smarmy behavior that is so prevalent in this forum .

now we can see what is what and who is who .

this may be the new beginning that I’ve been hoping for 

Go Rutgers, beat Miami.

Spock, I was just repeating what I have been told over and over. 

Yeah I gotcha on that , I understand 

but someone , at some point , has to break the chain of mediocrity that is keeping progress at bay ……

it takes a real motherfucker to not fall victim , or to be the prey , of everything that has kept people back from accomplishing great things .

It’s gonna involve taking some lumps and not taking the easy way out , but guess what ?

I believe we are those motherfuckers 

Stunning development in NYC! Mayor Eric Adams will make NYC bus driver's criminals if they deliver the poor and weary from Central and South America to the streets of NYC! Mayor Adams wrote an Executive Order stating that buses full of illegals must notify the city 32 hours in advance of arrival. Also. The very poor and the very weary can only be dropped off at a designated location between 830 am and 12 pm. Bus drivers who fail to follow the Executive Order will face huge lifestyle changing fines, criminal charges and possible lawsuits! 

 They need to shut down any illegal crossings.........IMMEDIATELY! Don't give out a date, just do it. Tell 'em "sorry, we're full" & turn 'em around......& anyone else wanting to immigrate will have to wait. Thanks to Biden's failure to uphold the "remain in Mexico" policy, we now have a 7-10 year backlog of wannabe immigrants already inside our borders. Until we can get that sorted out, we need to halt the flow.

 Sure, many that try & fail will try again. But once it's clear we're closed, they'll figure it out. Gotta get the message out.

The following is from 1 of the 3 most important people in America. His name is Tucker Carlson

“The Biden administration is importing millions of third-world immigrants to live here illegally, and at the same time telling them that white people are the source of their problems. How’s that going to work out in the end?” Tucker Carlson said.

@ABooksNightmare

 After reading your comments on E-Verify, I had to further educate myself on the program. I came to the conclusion there are more pros than cons to implement the process.

Smaller companies may not have the resources to install/maintain/problem solve issues whether it would be hard or software. In the big scope of things, this is a very small concern. Those against the concept consider it an invasion of privacy issue. But hell, the government knows everything about us already AND we are talking about those who have lived in the darkness of our communities & do plenty of meaningful roles. The burden falls on the employer (where it should be IMO) to verify their workers are legally in the country.

Forget about Congress. Solutions are not going to come from them. A leader in business, (put their name here) needs to take an active role in gathering other leaders in business to help solve this issue. Present their findings to Congress & hold their feet to the fire with threats of pulling their support for them if the issues are not resolved.

Amazingly, I also agree with your comments of the "hand-outs" for non-citizens. Now that would be a massive change & the infrastructure needs to be in place to manage those who do not come forward.  

@sundance

 Dammit sundance!

We're talking about solutions not pointing freaking fingers in this thread.

You know what my solutions would be. A massive deportation program and a complete shutdown of the border! An estimated 10-11M  illegals have easily crossed our borders since joe has been President.There is not 1 country on the planet that can withstand an invasion of that magnitude!

George Blakemore of Chicago has a solution

https://www.facebook.com/51stAlderman/

A well-known Chicago activist has called for Donald Trump to 'come in here and cleanup this mess'' decrying the influx of migrants and urging authorities to 'send them all back.' George Blakemore, 81, has for the last 40 years attended every public meeting he can, from City Council to the Chicago Board of Education to the Water Reclamation District, Block Club Chicago reported.

Smart man.

@Barbarossa

 OK, so I checked out the link you provided & my conclusion leads me to thinking the Global Compact is a noble attempt that is non-binding, uncoordinated, non-cooperative failure to meet their stated goals.

Do they produce reports showing what has been improved or works in progress or better yet, achievements. The goals are admirable but "where's the beef?"

@UNIMAN

 Your 1st link is from 2021 & we were in a different place in time but it highlights Republican concern that immigrants would register as Democrats during a period where apprehension was up 28%; it depicts the "seasonal" migration to pick our fruits/vegetables; it mentions fraudulent ballots in the 2020 election as well as getting rid of mail in ballots. Republicans were sounding the bell regarding the immigration issues.

That's what I got out of it. I didn't see any solutions noted.

I'll check out the other links tomorrow during the games.

BTW..Your Rutgers pick against my Canes was right on the money.

Can we agree that the "why" are they coming isn't immediately import? People are coming for various reasons. 

Why they are coming is important. Most are coming to work. What industries do we want/need them to work in? Agriculture obviously, but outside of that everyone from meat-packing plants to janitorial services are hiring them. 

Can we agree that the current management of the issue is abysmal? 

It's not great. But I also am skeptical of the garbage "estimates" from the right wing media machine. On one hand, they say "we can't possibly know how many are flooding across the border," then on the other hand they say it's 11 million. Righttttt. 

Can we agree to speak about the future rather than the past? 

Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat their mistakes.

Pretty simple, right? Ok, I'll start..

A possible solutions that comes to mind is expanding the "Sponsor" program. Those who have made it to the shores of SFLA in many cases have family already established here that will provide housing/employment. It's working here. I see this as a possible win-win.

That could work pretty well. Most who come here already have someone who would vouch for them. 

Sending the undocumented back to their respective countries does not stop them from trying again & again. What's the answer?

This is true. And I think most people here are wholly unaware of federal programs to allow Nicaraugans and Philipinos to come here for various public policy reasons from decades ago. So even if you "stopped" everyone, you'd still have immigrants coming in. The "close the border" talk is unrealistic, and ignores how modern agriculture works. It also ignores the fact that businesses need daily border crossings as people work on both sides of the border.   

Do those who have overstayed their visa's get to stay? What are our best options? 

Probably yes, unless they're felons or have legit criminal histories. 90% don't, just like the rest of the population. 

Here's some food for thought - most undocumented workers buy SSNs from coyotes, so it's not uncommon to see a SSN used by 25 different people. Most of those people give that SSN to their employer, who doesn't e-verify it. That employer subtracts taxes from their paycheck. To avoid IRS trouble, most immigrants pay taxes under that number. 

So now you've got 20-25 people all using the same SSN, and paying taxes under same SSN. Is the IRS returning that money? Of course not, they keep it. 

The pearl-clutching about public benefits totally ignores this set of facts, which is proven correct time and time again. 

If people want to really ensure our government has sufficient tax revenue, we need a stronger IRS. You know, I got audited over an IRA rollover question (which was easily defeated by yours truly), while meanwhile Trump is paying $700 in taxes a year, and Bezos pays nothing. That's not right. If both those guys paid a fair share, that could save Social Security.

Batter Up!

Another key question - what to do about big businesses who intentionally hire undocumented immigrants with the intent to underpay them. Trump did it to the Polish in the 70s, and he did it to the Guatemalan housekeepers decades later. Besides Trump, Tyson Chicken has done it over and over again. Doesn't seem fair that repeat offenders get off Scott free. 

Take away the carrot, and maybe that deters some from coming here. But to let the EvilCorps of the world to keep on screwing the poor, that ain't the solution.

Molotov cocktails. Cheap and very easy to make.

In migration, Trump didn't actually accomplish much as president.  Except for cruelly separating children from parents.  Trump's failure wasn't that he didn't finish the wall.  It was that the wall couldn't do what he promised it would.  He failed to make changes that would make a difference in immigration.  Cato institute reveals that he reduced legal immigration but failed to eliminate illegal immigration.  Worsening labor shortages and making US less attractive for rich or skilled immigrants.  But his threat to deport 3% of US population would be devastating for economy.  Ditto for threatening other countries with tariffs that would be paid by Americans.

It is so easy to debunk your propaganda with facts; https://www.statista.com/statistics/329256/alien-apprehensions-registered-by-the-us-border-patrol/

One look at the yearly graph in this link shows everytime a Republican is elected president illegal crossings go down.  

And look at the Trump years. 2017 the lowest since at least 1990 when the graph began. And then look at Biden.......deliberate.

IMO, this thread is a joke. You elected an arsonist and knew he would set a fire. As the fire burned for three years you and your media pretended there was no fire. Now that the structure is fully engulfed, oh golly gee, let's all talk about how to put the fire out. 

Clinton and Obama in the video answers the stupid question, " WE ARE A COUNTRY OF IMMIGRATION AND LAWS". Or have you all forgotten?

Fingerpointing?........

https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/22/politics/biden-administration-press-access-border-facilities/index.html

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/3/23/biden-under-pressure-as-images-of-detained-migrants-emerge (the democrat who took these pics raided by the FBI)

https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-donald-trump-politics-immigration-border-patrols-73171bd6fd8494c16c8ca1f7f3f54130

 Biden’s administration has tried for weeks to keep the public from seeing images like those released Monday of immigrant children in U.S. custody at the border sleeping on mats under foil blankets, separated in groups by plastic partitions.

https://immigrantjustice.org/staff/blog/biden-administration-routinely-separates-immigrant-families

• The Biden administration routinely separates families through detention and deportation as part of its interior immigration enforcement practices, without meaningful policies designed to protect family unity.
• Asylum-seeking families at the border face the Migrant Protection Protocols (MPP, also known as Remain in Mexico) program, which has increased risk for family separations, kidnappings, assault, and killings for people forced to wait in Mexico during their U.S. immigration proceedings.
• Haitian mothers and fathers and their children, including young babies, face mass expulsions back to a destabilized country.
• In recent weeks, the Biden administration has walked away from settlement negotiations and moved to dismiss claims brought by families seeking compensation for the unimaginable harms they endured when they were separated as a result of the Trump administration’s Zero-Tolerance border policy.

 Unimaginable harm, guess Biden really doesn't see that way either.

Sad it has to be this way.