@Rush51
Just curious....who do you think is behind the cash flowing to Ukraine? Do you think it is Biden? I do not at all, the beneficiaries of the funds are GOP backed defense contractors the same groups who gave validation to the greatest military farce in my lifetime...Iraq.
Follow the cash trail and take off those partisan goggles.
@joe pockets
You don't even know what you're talking about. 
This has nothing to do w the electoral college, and everything to do w our 435 members in the House each representing roughly the same number of people in our country.
I find it interesting you aren't about " equal representation "
@wallstreetcappers
That is a fact. US defense contractors are big winners and it's not a well-kept secret that they are very heavily backed by republicans (at massive costs to American taxpayers for our bloated military budget) Fortunately by President Biden getting us out of Afghanistan our budget is being spared massive costs of almost $9 BILLION monthly that the republicans started 20 years ago Much of those savings are now being spent to stop the spread of fascism and international terrorism in Europe. That's important! Because if Ukraine loses as an indirect result of losing funding from the US, Russia will move on other European countries next and that will force American forces into war time battle over there per our international agreements with NATO. Then watch our spending skyrocket like never before!
@Zeus4par
exactly !!!!
and when all that happens because of republicans voting to stop financially supporting our allies when we had the best chance to halt the spread of fascism , guess who those same republicans will scream bloody murder is to blame 
when americans are forced onto the ground over there like WW2 ????
While Republicans generally support more defense spending, they are NOT the ones that want to spend it in Ukraine. So, just because the defense contractors (which employee many Democrats and have support in Democratic communities) are making money off of it — it does not necessarily follow that they are the ones pushing for this.
In the $40B aid package that got approved, 57 Republicans voted against it while all the Democrats voted for it.
In the latest proposal that did not pass, it is the Republicans that are holding it up.
House Republicans who have previously supported Ukraine are in little rush to approve a fifth round of aid amid growing skepticism within their caucus.
“I’m not necessarily opposed to supporting the Ukrainians further, but I am opposed to doing it at this point without some sort of explanation from the executive branch, Secretary of Defense [Lloyd Austin] telling us what we are doing with this money and where it’s going and what the end state is,” Rep. Mike Garcia, R-Calif., a defense appropriator, told reporters last week. “You can’t give a blank check to the executive branch.”
Waltz called for conditions on Ukraine aid, without specifying what they should look like.
“There must be policy space between Biden’s current strategy of ‘as long as it takes’ and those demanding “not another dollar,” Waltz wrote.
So, this is not a case of follow the cash flow to see who is making money. If anything, it is a case of follow who is spending the money and that is the Democrats.
This whole situation has been supported and pushed onto the USA citizens by the Democrats and the Biden Administration.
There was no need to get involved in Ukraine and certainly no need to drive the country further in debt just to support this cause.
But to bellyache when defense contractors are making money off of a policy driven, mainly, by Democrats is not logical at all.
The USA has given more money to Ukraine than any other country because the Democrats have decided this is the just cause of the day to support. I think they have given more than the next 6 countries combined have given.
The idiotic Republicans got on board with this bad plan in the beginning because they felt obligated to so that they would not look bad.
Now that they are getting pushback from their constituents they are deciding to try to take a stand against continuing it. Other countries are seeing this as well, like Poland.
This amount of money is now more than they spend on the Department of the Interior in a year and almost the amount they spend on the Department of Commerce.
This was a boondoggle of a waste of money that could have been used to try to get the country out of debt, to help the folks at home that need help, etc.
You cannot blame the Republicans for this except to say they should have stood their ground in the beginning.
Do not blame the defense contractors for making money; blame the Democrats for spending the money for them.
@wallstreetcappers
Well stated Wally! 
@Raiders22
Thing is though that smells like fake dead fish to me, and this is why- The GOP knows they do not have to SELL this farce like they did Iraq because the DEMS are not holding it up and in fact they are neutral to supportive of it, especially since Biden bows to NATO and so here we are. So in this case the fake GOP sentiment is an easy play...the we are trying to be fiscally responsible joke plays well and is a card they can use because their support or lack of it means ZERO in this case. In previous farces the GOP have been the pushers of the spectacle, including Afgh too but here they are not so it feels good to say that I am against military spending blah blah blah and in reality it means nothing.
When one group who always plays the same role for decades suddenly switches and tries the other side, you are not going to pass off the stink to me and have me believe it. Ive never seen a GOP narrative of fiscal restraint that curtails military spending...like never ever.
@wallstreetcappers
They did not suddenly switch. This is nothing at all like Iraq. At no point have the Republicans supported this like the Democrats have. Nothing at all supports this idea. That is weak speculation. This is a Democrat-driven policy from the start. If more Republicans happen to make money from a Democrat-farce -- that is NOT the Republican's fault, they are NOT the ones that wanted it in the first place. Plenty of Democrats have these companies in their 401Ks and work at these places. So, it is NOT a case where it is benefiting the Republicans more.
If the Democrats saw this like that, where the Defense contractors and by, very weak association, Republicans were going to make money -- they would NOT be for this plan.
In fact, Republicans should start claiming how much this is helping them make money -- the Democrats might abandon this idiotic policy right away.
This is absolutely NOT the same as a policy of funding defense as much as a policy of SPENDING money on a corrupt country to support a cause-of-the-day. There is more than just defense spending going on here as well. They are supplying Ukraine with more than weapons, etc. Who benefits from that. Again, it is NOT just Republicans.
This is just weird to try to justify a bad Democrat plan by trying to blame Republicans for it. I really have not seen any pundit at all make this effort.
@Raiders22
Cute...
On the real topic I do not think the Ukraine military aid is DEM forwarded at all because DEMS in general are not at all supportive of generic blank military action, the reason I think that the DEM side is supportive is that there are people being harmed, people that they sympathize with and that it has implications to other neutral and democratic countries if the progression were to continue. So the thought is that if Ukraine goes badly that maybe it spreads to other areas and countries we are loyal to etc so it is not at all about the war and oil and trade routes and establishing a position in the middle east, it is much more about the potential for greater harm and that innocent people were dying and are at risk. Iraq was 100% fronted by fake dead fish reasons, false 9-11 narrative which had ZERO merit, that Saddam was some dictator that held WMDs and we were at risk as a country...all false all fake all fabricated, zero truth at all.
I do side with stepping back on Ukraine personally, we are spending money we do not have on a situation which also smells fake to me, I do not trust the narrative we are fed regarding that Russia is invading and that Ukraine is innocent, I do not buy that at all and I do not trust the leadership and their story, I do not think that Russia would just go in and invade without legal provocation and yet that is the story we are being fed.
It is interesting though that the same bull crap one sided narrative is what we were fed when evil Bush went in on Iraq the first time, it was a total farce, the reason why Iraq was tee'd off at Kuwait in the first place was they were horizontal drilling into Iraqi fields and stealing their oil and that set the wheels in motion for Saddam to put an end to it, and rightly so I have to say...but nope the narrative we were fed was such garbage and so fake.
I do not buy that at any time DEMS support war and military spending as a general pillar of the platform, where I do think that the GOP has and always does and that will never change.
While we agree on stepping back on Ukraine, you only have to look at how Putin is being "opportunistic" when he invades during DEM presidencies. Witness his first foray into Crimea and Ukrain under O'bama,... then this bigger foray into Ukraine last year under Biden. It isn't by accident. Putin is looking to expand his borders, and "re-unify" the old Soviet Empire, and is choosing to do so under weak American Presidents.
There is no reason to overthink this. Putin is guilty of territorial ambitions ,... Crimea and Ukraine are the victims.
@Rush51
I dont agree with your DEM vs REPUB conclusion, if anything Trump would be sending aid to Russia since he loves Putin and any similar personality strong arm type like he is. He cant help but feel a connection to similar traits to what he has and Trump was not a military invade kind of president, I guess he would have social media'd him to death if that is even such a thing.
From the first of this Ukraine situation I just dont see that Russia all of a sudden decided to go and invade that area just because...what my humble opinion on what happened is this, Ukraine as terms of their satellite allowance to exist from the general Russian federation they agreed to certain terms and do/donts in order to have that be allowed...there were very strong understandings that were made and to me even the WHIFF of considering joining NATO or being in any Western coalition in ANY way was red alert for Russia, and for good reason. If Russia who granted these small territories the right to have some sense of independence were to sit by and allow ANY sort of breaking of terms for Ukraine, then the whole thing falls apart and any/all of the others might consider such and then it puts great risk on the general Russian security and safety and that just cant happen and Putin would never allow it.
I think Z is brazen and thinks he can do whatever he wants and that includes breaking the soft and hard terms of what Russia gave to allow this situation to exist and I kind of wonder if he wanted this to happen and wanted to bring the West into this and turn it into something much more dire and force the US especially to take action..and so far it has worked.
@wallstreetcappers
I have to say that you are all over the place comparing Iraq and Ukraine.
I do not see many similarities at all. The reasons are different, the concerns are different, the results folks are looking for are different.
But the issue I have is how you are trying to shift the blame to the Republicans for spending money over there. This is not your ‘classic’ case of Republicans wanting to spend more on defense and beef that up.
This is almost solely the Democrats pushing to spend this money. It does not matter the reasons for it, whether they feel sorry for the folks there or feel they have a vested interest there or not. Many a better case could be made for foreign humanitarian aid in other parts of the world. The USA has no vested interest in Ukraine. All they are doing is proving to some people that they are trying to be the world’s police and force their ‘wants’ on the rest of the world. It does not matter if this is a case of wanting Iraq or Afghanistan to be free and Democratic or if they want Ukraine to be an independent and corrupt country, even though a large segment of that part of the country are Russian loyalists. The USA at some point needs to realize they are not the ones to determine what is best for everyone else and think that they are going to change centuries of non-Democratic violent tendencies. The Middle East wants to live in the Middle Ages and Ukraine wants to be a corrupt backwards country.
Again, this is just the sympathetic Liberal cause of the day.
It is good that you, now, think the USA should stop spending money over there.
But why not bellyache about the Democrats being the ones SPENDING the money in the first place.
Don’t blame the Republicans. There are enough things they can be blamed for; this is simply not one of them.
@Raiders22
Gotcha...would not be that you were pulling your usual scheme of taking shots using fake cover as an "innocent" misunderstanding, nah that could not be it.
ive said before that I do not buy the premise that Zelensky is selling, this isnt the first time I am saying it. My Iraq comment was that the GOP had to sell a false, intentionally dishonest fabricated premise in Iraq TWO times to get their defense contractors the cash that they promise, where it was said that DEMS were supporting the Ukraine scheme and I said the reasons are humanitarian and that there are other allies we likely are trying to protect if the unlikely scenario of Russia continuing PAST Ukraine were to happen. So DEMS as I said are not in support of war funding, that is your group...one of the pillars of your platform is defense contractor padding and that comes from war creation. So the previous cash funding goals came from the GOP selling the false stories of Iraq twice and that is not the case this time, BUT I said the GOP uses the DEM support as cover to act fiscally responsible and being against Ukraine when you never hear the words fiscal responsibility and defense funding cut from a GOP like never in my lifetime. Now they can sell that story because there is no story to sell to get the DEM votes like they needed in the two Bush Iraq invasions, so they can act responsible, the check is already signed sealed and delivered...so its a free spin on the wheel for your boys this time around.
This is the only sort of thing I find:
| English term or phrase: smell like a dead fish |
| It is, of course, crucial that these policies have been established before the action took place. (There is nothing like after-the-fact ratification to make an otherwise innocent action smell like a dead fish.) |
@wallstreetcappers
Is there a phrase using: smells like a fake dead fish. Or that is just your way of mixing a couple of metaphors?
Honestly I am not taking shots.
I think I know what you mean. You think it is beginning to seem as though the whole reason to go over there and spend money is not legitimate.
I get what you are saying about Iraq. I also get that no one likes to be tricked.
But we all are from time to time.
The Iraq deal has been rehashed on here enough.
Whether it was a GOP lie is hard to believe. When nearly every other country’s intelligence came to the same conclusions using their own information as well. Even hardcore Leftists voted to get involved over there.
But I still do not see how that equates to the situation in Ukraine. What lie is Zelensky pushing? That he is getting invaded? That certainly looks to be true.
But why are you mad at the GOP about this. They are NOT the ones that ‘lied’ about it or believed some ‘lie’ to go spend money over there. That was and STILL is all Democrats.
So, why are you NOT blaming ONLY them instead of the GOP.
@Raiders22
Ive seen too many of your posts to be falling for the innocent I dont understand but I am being sincere routine, so you can move along from that one and return to the bigger topic. Fake dead fish is probably not the deal changer in the conversation and I think that mind of yours got it just fine and were reaching again for a flat retort and a way to try and take a dig...just admit that and see if you can navigate this flimsy premise that isnt being made about DEM bad, GOP good stuff.
@wallstreetcappers
Can you link me that phrase meaning?
Suncerely, it does not make sense?
To me a fake dead fish should not smell.
So, to me, that means that the story does not smell and is, therefore, true?
But I got the indication you do not believe the story?
Not a shot at all; I simply have never heard that phrase and it seems to have conflicting meaning to me.
Established in 1995,
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