Posted:
#251
Ok. Thanks Vanzack. Just something I always wondered about and never got a straight answer.
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I-Gaming Prohibition Bill on the Verge of Passing
Posted:
#252
Let me say one thing before I sign off for the night.
I am not a legal expert.
Im just a normal guy like everyone here trying to interpret this. Please dont take my word for anything. Things will develop over the next few days and everything that I have advised in this thread could be proven wrong.
Im doing the best with the knowledge that I have right now - and this language can be tricky. It will all become clear soon.
KEEP YOUR EARS AND EYES OPEN.
Support your local animal shelter. I am on twitter.
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Posted:
#253
I don't care if it's an election for Prez of the U.S., or a shitty little township trustee job, I will never, and I mean never, vote for a republican again.
Ever notice that most of the Dem's fought in Vietnam because they were'nt rich, and all the republichristians took deferments because the system was set up to make sure they didn't have to fight. And now they send our guys into a war that they for got to manage. FUCK EM!
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Posted:
#254
A couple of things need to be corrected:
1). This is an updating of 1961 Act. It has said so at the top of each version of this bill. It actualy updates all the terminology of the 40 year old law to include the internet.
2). What the Senate passed is a compromise bill. The most controversal part of the bill was the section mandating that ISP's ban access to gambling sites. That was not included in the Senate version.
3). This bill applies to individuals and banks. I'll have to closely look at what the Senate passed, but other versions imposed a term of up to 5 years in prison for anyone who deposited gambling winnings into their bank account. (See you are allowed to gamble, but not collect your winnings, which is very tricky).
4). This bill includes anything that can be considered a "money transfer service or business."
5).They do have 270 days to implement it, if the Democrats win back control, expect this law to be changed.
6). The original House bill would have made places like Covers illegal for US citizens because Covers, "promotes and advertises gambling."
7). This bill is designed to put pressure on EFT services not to accept money from US customers who gamble. The only way to police this might be if banks stop processing Firepay and Neteller, unless these types of services agree not to process gambling transactions.
8). The ability to fund gambling directly through your bank account is dead. Sportsbooks will be hurt by this, but this is designed to be a kill shot to poker.
9). Speaking of poker, you can blame its popularity for this ban. Without the poker boom, social conservatives would not have gotten all up in arms and demanded this ban. As soon as ESPN started glorifying poker and websites got bold with their advertising, the religious conservatives started to rumble.
10). This whole thingisabout the social conservatives and the GOP's vital need for them to vote November 7th. A subplot here is that Bill Frist will be running for President in 2008, and he is thinks he can get to the White House by being the anti-McCain. Remember, gambling is a sin and this is why Frist pushed so hard for the ban.
11). I deal with politics everyday. I don't mean to sound preachy, but if most of you spent more time paying attention to what your elected officials stand for and what they are doing in office, instead of some meaningless sporting event, then perhaps people like Frist would not have gotten to be where they are today. Gamblers, like the poor, or immigrants are an easy group to pick on because they don't have a lobby or give big campaign contributions. I would respectfully suggest to every person who reads that that you would not bet on a game without doing some research first, so take a few minutes and get to know the candidates running in your state. In many places, it is not too late to register to vote. How many of you who are upset about the events of tonight, did not bother to vote in the last election? For those of you who always thought that politics do not impact your life. I guess that you found out tonight that they do.
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Posted:
#255
Let's overthrow the party peacefully this November at the voting booths
and just vote the Republicans out of office to save the freedoms that
we still have before they take more of our freedoms away. Let's
overthrow the Republican party by voting with our wallets. They want to
stop gambling, so let's all stop gambling on the lotteries, any
thoughts on boycotting the lotteries
I'm sure if the the Dem's were in control this would've happened too..........you don't need a party affiliation to introduce & pass bullshit. Check me here........how many dem's opposed this? Tough to tell since it was attached to another bill.
I don't follow politics as strictly as some of you.............but I know that this country is never happy, no matter who is in charge.
I'm sure if the the Dem's were in control this would've happened too..........you don't need a party affiliation to introduce & pass bullshit. Check me here........how many dem's opposed this? Tough to tell since it was attached to another bill.
I don't follow politics as strictly as some of you.............but I know that this country is never happy, no matter who is in charge.
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Posted:
#257
Quote Originally Posted by ThePenguin:
The Democrats have always been opposed to this kind of ban, because as stereotypical as this sounds, they would like to find a way to generate revenue from online gambling.
So if what you say is true, we'll find out that this bill passed by a slim margin?
Look, I don't give a fuck about party affiliation. I think the timing is such that, no matter who was in office, it was going to come to question (gambling online)............too many kids & monkeys with daddys' CC causing bankruptcy (or enough to give the govt an excuse) to just let it go. But I bet if the $ was staying in our borders it wouldn't be this sudden or drastic.
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Posted:
#258
I have been saying it since June of this year. Once the Washington State Gambling Prohibition Bill was put into place I said the rest of the dominos would fall and it wouldnt be long till Gambling was illegal at the federal level.
Now it is.
If you still have money in a sportsbook......
You better try as hard as you can to get it out now, otherwise you will never see it again.
I was right about this issue back in July of this year and I am right about it now.
I already withdrew all of my funds as soon as I heard about the attachment of this bill to the port securities bill yesterday.
Good Luck my fellow degenerates.
P.S.
Take vanzacks advice with a grain of salt.
He works for the books!
( Vanzack - No. Concentrate on winning money tomorrow. This bill will not effect you any time soon.)
Now it is.
If you still have money in a sportsbook......
You better try as hard as you can to get it out now, otherwise you will never see it again.
I was right about this issue back in July of this year and I am right about it now.
I already withdrew all of my funds as soon as I heard about the attachment of this bill to the port securities bill yesterday.
Good Luck my fellow degenerates.
P.S.
Take vanzacks advice with a grain of salt.
He works for the books!
( Vanzack - No. Concentrate on winning money tomorrow. This bill will not effect you any time soon.)
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Posted:
#260
Quote Originally Posted by iggles05:
Throwback...to answer ur question on how to start ur own book its simple
1) you need to establish a clientel who will place bets with u
2) u have to make sure u have enough money to cover ur clientel's bets everyweek..if they are average betters (50-100 a game) u will most likely need 6-10 grand to start out, but i have friends who have started with 2-4 k
3) u need to set what bets u will take and what ur juice is, eg. parlays (2,3,4,5 team??) reverses, teasers (6,7,9 point...usually on 6 pt Teasers 50 loses 60, 7 point 50 loses 65-70 and on 9 pt depending on u anywhere from 70-90)
4) find an up to date website such as covers or some online sports book (if they are still around) to get ur lines to and then start taking bets....and then do exactly what an online book does, if everyone is pounding the fav hard then bumb the line a .5 point or a point accordingly
i would recommend not taking bets until the day of the game..early lines will kill u plus it is a lot more work, instead of being a book 3-4 days a week u a a book 24/7...and it is always good to have at least one horrible bettor who wagers a good amount a week and loses 60% of the year
other than that there isnt much to it...most locals have monday close out the week and tuesday start out the new one...so essentially a betting week runs tuesday to the following monday and payouts/payups are on friday or saturday
if u do it right...there isnt really a way to do it wrong..u should end up the year on top, unless u know a lot of winning bettors....books wouldnt be in business and make so much money if they didnt win the majority of the time
GL
Throwback...to answer ur question on how to start ur own book its simple
1) you need to establish a clientel who will place bets with u
2) u have to make sure u have enough money to cover ur clientel's bets everyweek..if they are average betters (50-100 a game) u will most likely need 6-10 grand to start out, but i have friends who have started with 2-4 k
3) u need to set what bets u will take and what ur juice is, eg. parlays (2,3,4,5 team??) reverses, teasers (6,7,9 point...usually on 6 pt Teasers 50 loses 60, 7 point 50 loses 65-70 and on 9 pt depending on u anywhere from 70-90)
4) find an up to date website such as covers or some online sports book (if they are still around) to get ur lines to and then start taking bets....and then do exactly what an online book does, if everyone is pounding the fav hard then bumb the line a .5 point or a point accordingly
i would recommend not taking bets until the day of the game..early lines will kill u plus it is a lot more work, instead of being a book 3-4 days a week u a a book 24/7...and it is always good to have at least one horrible bettor who wagers a good amount a week and loses 60% of the year
other than that there isnt much to it...most locals have monday close out the week and tuesday start out the new one...so essentially a betting week runs tuesday to the following monday and payouts/payups are on friday or saturday
if u do it right...there isnt really a way to do it wrong..u should end up the year on top, unless u know a lot of winning bettors....books wouldnt be in business and make so much money if they didnt win the majority of the time
GL
Thanks Man Im considering this
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Posted:
#261
Quote Originally Posted by ThePenguin:
A couple of things need to be corrected:
1). This is an updating of 1961 Act. It has said so at the top of each version of this bill. It actualy updates all the terminology of the 40 year old law to include the internet.
I only got to #1 and stopped because right away YOU ARE WRONG.
The language in the bill has nothing to do with the wire act. Read the bill please. Pages 213 through 244. If you find one thing about the Wire Act in there I will read the rest of your post.
Support your local animal shelter. I am on twitter.
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Posted:
#263
Quote Originally Posted by losuds63:
Jesus Vanzack did you get to sleep last night ???
How can I sleep?
Im fucking sick about this. But I am getting better clarification at least. I got a 5 minute call with my lawyer and he is currently working on getting a full description of what it means - but he told me to "not worry".
Im mostly sick about how this can happen. It happens on a Friday in the middle of the night, attached to an important security bill, and most americans dont even know it happened. Its so disheartening. We live in a free country? We are the only country in the world that tries to ban internet gambling. People that live in Europe and Asia are savages?
Sickening. I cant sleep.
Support your local animal shelter. I am on twitter.
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Posted:
#266
Quote Originally Posted by kerryb:
windir is absolutely wrong.
There is no point to even responding to him. Its clear to anyone that can read his agenda is personal and political. Same as claycourtlesson - they are both reactionists and extremists - and have very little to say in the way of facts.
Im pretty sure people understand this and just ignore them.
Support your local animal shelter. I am on twitter.
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Posted:
#268
When i was listening last night i was typing a play by play and herd 4 or 5 senaters complain about this gambling bill being attached to this port security and other issues for security were left out and thats what really sucks --Now the government is going to crack down and watch our ports with tighter security measures and thats a great thing we really all need this ---brings me back to the point a few months ago they wanted to sell all our rights to the ports to the united emirates -glad that didnt happen....But a few senaters said they were really mad because this bill is only a half fill glass of milk and it left alot of important issues out that really needed to be added like trains subways and busses and public transpertation but --Frist and a few other thought it was better to stop online gambling then protect our public transpertation vessels and leave them open for possible terrorist attacks...
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Posted:
#269
my letter to frist this morning, although i know i'll never hear back, it just makes me feel better.
I find it appaling that you can attach the internet gambling bill to the ports bill and leave out law to take into account mass transit and railroad protection. I take mass transit to work every day, and now my life is more threatened by unstable terrorists wanting to KILL Americans. Let me write that again. KILL Americans. I realize that Tennessee might not be to threatened by terrorists blowing up their trains, but it is a real situation here in NY, NJ, and CT. I wish you were more concerned about American lives than some internet gambling bill which is of your opinion is illegal. Let me quote your own website here - “Gambling is a serious addiction that undermines the family, dashes dreams, and frays the fabric of society. Congress has grappled with this issue for 10 years, and during that time we’ve watched this shadow industry explode. For me as majority leader, the bottom line is simple: Internet gambling is illegal." Why not include alcohol, state lotteries, horse racing, etc? Internet gambling is no different than other social activities that are legal.
Bottom line is this Frist. Your efforts of caring more about some opinion of yours might end up with more Americans dying on US soil. I saw firsthand people dying in Manhattan as a direct result of terrorists and I never want to see it happen again. I hope you're ready to deal with your own conscience if this ever happens again. If internet gambling is more important than homeland security, than that just shows where your priorities are. Your agenda is not of the American people, it is painfully obvious that this is a personal agenda and not the representation of the citizens of Tennessee. Congrats, you have failed as a US Senator.
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Posted:
#271
Kerryb - Before I moved I wrote to both my Senators in Michigan and did the same when I came here to Ohio. Followed up this morning with additional communication. I am frustrated with both parties this morning, because while this was a Republican bill, the Democrats didn't fight it as hard as I thought they would. The passage of this legislation exemplifies hypocrisy in so many ways it just makes me sick. The fight is far from over though so we all need to make sure we don't put our heads in the sand or take a gloom and doom attitude about this and throw in the towel. This is the time when we need to make our voices heard more than ever, so guys let's not concede defeat on this one as until they specifically include an update to the Wire Act into any legislation they pass, the fight is still on. A $380 billion dollar industry isn't going to disappear overnight guys...unless we roll over and let it.
CB
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Posted:
#272
Van-
I do hope you're so right, I really do. I hope I'm wrong that internet gambling is dead in a lot less than 270 days and guilty of over-reacting to the bill that was passed.
Riducule me, call me a reactionist...........whatever. The message of the future seems pretty clear regarding ISP regulation (and yes, I have read the goddamn bill). The future is that the US gov't. does not and will not condone on-line gambling.
Yes...........there will be ways around it, but I don't know how. And, are those ways around it going to be felonious, and are they even worth pursuing if there's little safety or recourse?
Like all, I am sickened by the recent events. My take has always been to tax the revenue from gambling and it make it legal................just like it is in most countries. Tell me the difference between getting down on a goddamn football game or flipping 500 shares of google during the nasdaq open???????
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Posted:
#273
I'm not giving up, no f'ing way. But we need national press on this bullshit, which is hard to do. We need to get our voices heard!
When US ports were going to be sold to foreign entities, all holy hell broke loose. When all the negative press happened because of it, all these politicians changed their tunes real quick. We need something like that to happen for IG.
Everyone needs to voice their opinion loudly and often. 
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Posted:
#274
It's all about the agenda. Frist wants to go for presidency in 2008 and needs the full backing of the neo-con religious right. By pretty much bullying this bullcrap attachment last night on to the port bill, he can claim victory to his "holy" constituency.
US politics is as corrupt and sick as any fraudulent means to an end.
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Posted:
#275
Quote Originally Posted by kerryb:
my letter to frist this morning, although i know i'll never hear back, it just makes me feel better.
I find it appaling that you can attach the internet gambling bill to the ports bill and leave out law to take into account mass transit and railroad protection. I take mass transit to work every day, and now my life is more threatened by unstable terrorists wanting to KILL Americans. Let me write that again. KILL Americans. I realize that Tennessee might not be to threatened by terrorists blowing up their trains, but it is a real situation here in NY, NJ, and CT. I wish you were more concerned about American lives than some internet gambling bill which is of your opinion is illegal. Let me quote your own website here - “Gambling is a serious addiction that undermines the family, dashes dreams, and frays the fabric of society. Congress has grappled with this issue for 10 years, and during that time we’ve watched this shadow industry explode. For me as majority leader, the bottom line is simple: Internet gambling is illegal." Why not include alcohol, state lotteries, horse racing, etc? Internet gambling is no different than other social activities that are legal.
Bottom line is this Frist. Your efforts of caring more about some opinion of yours might end up with more Americans dying on US soil. I saw firsthand people dying in Manhattan as a direct result of terrorists and I never want to see it happen again. I hope you're ready to deal with your own conscience if this ever happens again. If internet gambling is more important than homeland security, than that just shows where your priorities are. Your agenda is not of the American people, it is painfully obvious that this is a personal agenda and not the representation of the citizens of Tennessee. Congrats, you have failed as a US Senator.
Great letter but dont forget to write to Senater King from new york he wanted this bill to go threw real bad last night even though it wasnt complete and just rambled on and didnt acknowledge any of the democrates yelling that the bill had alot of holes in it and hes from New York ..
He very well was aware that the Gambling bill was attached to the Port Bill and was told by others it was still leaving public transportation open for attack and he did not care---- and he wrote part of this bill and all the money that was put aside for all the Ports is great as long as they know how to allocate funds to actually make this happen --Hopefull not like the Katrina funds ---but as far as transportation for his own state he turned his back on all those vessels also --Shame on you Senater King
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