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    All Forums | The Archives

    I-Gaming Prohibition Bill on the Verge of Passing

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    vanzack
    slc5610
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    Cdizzle
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    vanzack
    vanzack
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    Posted: Sep. 30, 2006 - 12:56 AM ET #226

    Quote Originally Posted by slc5610:

     
    5363-

    in lamens terms:

    no person engaged in the business of betting or wagering may knowingly accept in connection the participation of another person in unlawful Internet gambling:

    1. credit, or the proceeds of credit INCLUDING CREDIT EXTENDED THROUGH CREDIT CARDS

    2. an electronic funds transfer through a money trasnmitting business or the proceeds of an electronic funds transfer (I"m guessing banks and neteller type)

    3. any check, draft or similar instrument and is drawn or payable through ANY financial institution

    4. the proceeds of any other form of financial transaction the secretary and board of governors of the federal reserve system may jointly prescribe ( a catch all for anything new that sprouts up)


    ANY PERSON WHO VIOLATES THIS SHALL BE FINED UNDER TITLE 18, IMPRISONED FOR NOT MORE THAN 5 YEARS OR BOTH


    my take is that it really is going after the books and going to make it near impossible to fund any of them. they are NOT going to go after the average joe for gambling, BUT there probably won't be many places to gamble. good news for sin city and your local books.

    again, there is still 270 days before enactment and hopefully something can be worked out in that time.
     
    The key here is that anybody who IS IN THE BUSINESS OF WAGERING - THE BOOK - cannot take this.
     
    its no different than what is on the books today.  It is illegal to be a bookie.  It is not illegal to place a bet.
     
    The US cannot say that a business in England or Curacao is illegal.  And this bill does not address you the gambler - only those who facilitate financial transactions.
     
    ITS POLITICAL.
    Support your local animal shelter. I am on twitter.
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    Quote Originally Posted by slc5610:

     
    5363-

    in lamens terms:

    no person engaged in the business of betting or wagering may knowingly accept in connection the participation of another person in unlawful Internet gambling:

    1. credit, or the proceeds of credit INCLUDING CREDIT EXTENDED THROUGH CREDIT CARDS

    2. an electronic funds transfer through a money trasnmitting business or the proceeds of an electronic funds transfer (I"m guessing banks and neteller type)

    3. any check, draft or similar instrument and is drawn or payable through ANY financial institution

    4. the proceeds of any other form of financial transaction the secretary and board of governors of the federal reserve system may jointly prescribe ( a catch all for anything new that sprouts up)


    ANY PERSON WHO VIOLATES THIS SHALL BE FINED UNDER TITLE 18, IMPRISONED FOR NOT MORE THAN 5 YEARS OR BOTH


    my take is that it really is going after the books and going to make it near impossible to fund any of them. they are NOT going to go after the average joe for gambling, BUT there probably won't be many places to gamble. good news for sin city and your local books.

    again, there is still 270 days before enactment and hopefully something can be worked out in that time.
     
    The key here is that anybody who IS IN THE BUSINESS OF WAGERING - THE BOOK - cannot take this.
     
    its no different than what is on the books today.  It is illegal to be a bookie.  It is not illegal to place a bet.
     
    The US cannot say that a business in England or Curacao is illegal.  And this bill does not address you the gambler - only those who facilitate financial transactions.
     
    ITS POLITICAL.
     
    vanzack
    vanzack
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    Posted: Sep. 30, 2006 - 12:57 AM ET #227

    Quote Originally Posted by HOFCity:

    Say right now, I have $200.00 in my BoDog account. Should I get that out right now and put it back into my bank account or am I safe for the time being? Sorry if this question was already answered within the thread, but I looked through it and didn't see it. 
     
    No.
     
    Concentrate on winning money tomorrow.
     
    This bill will not effect you any time soon.
    Support your local animal shelter. I am on twitter.
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    Quote Originally Posted by HOFCity:

    Say right now, I have $200.00 in my BoDog account. Should I get that out right now and put it back into my bank account or am I safe for the time being? Sorry if this question was already answered within the thread, but I looked through it and didn't see it. 
     
    No.
     
    Concentrate on winning money tomorrow.
     
    This bill will not effect you any time soon.
     
    slc5610
    slc5610
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    Posted: Sep. 30, 2006 - 12:58 AM ET #228

    so how do we "politically" get around this bullshit?
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    so how do we "politically" get around this bullshit?
     
    HOFCity
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    Posted: Sep. 30, 2006 - 12:58 AM ET #229

    That's the answer I was hoping for vanzack! Thanks for the quick response and best of luck to you this weekend!  
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    That's the answer I was hoping for vanzack! Thanks for the quick response and best of luck to you this weekend!  
     
    Cdizzle
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    Posted: Sep. 30, 2006 - 12:59 AM ET #230

    Okay... so, fine, a cashier's check to Sam Smith in Antigua... how do we get the money from "Mr. Smith" safely?
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    Okay... so, fine, a cashier's check to Sam Smith in Antigua... how do we get the money from "Mr. Smith" safely?
     
    slc5610
    slc5610
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    Posted: Sep. 30, 2006 - 1:00 AM ET #231

    Mr. Smith in Antigua just happens to write you a check and fedex it to your house.
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    Mr. Smith in Antigua just happens to write you a check and fedex it to your house.
     
    WizardOfOdd
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    Posted: Sep. 30, 2006 - 1:01 AM ET #232

    no need to pull out money this season in the NFL yet.  fuck the republicans!!!!  hate them like crazy!!! 
     
    just make sure you dont leave a lot of money in there, thats it to be on the safe side.
     
    FACT:
     
    US AUTO INDUSTRY = $350 BILLION PER YEAR
    ONLINE GAMBLING  = $380 BILLION PER YEAR!!! AND INCREASING EACH YEAR!!!!!
     
    once again, fuck you republicans!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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    no need to pull out money this season in the NFL yet.  fuck the republicans!!!!  hate them like crazy!!! 
     
    just make sure you dont leave a lot of money in there, thats it to be on the safe side.
     
    FACT:
     
    US AUTO INDUSTRY = $350 BILLION PER YEAR
    ONLINE GAMBLING  = $380 BILLION PER YEAR!!! AND INCREASING EACH YEAR!!!!!
     
    once again, fuck you republicans!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
    vanzack
    vanzack
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    Posted: Sep. 30, 2006 - 1:04 AM ET #233

    Quote Originally Posted by Noles2006:

    Okay... so, fine, a cashier's check to Sam Smith in Antigua... how do we get the money from "Mr. Smith" safely?
     
    Let me set up a scenario for you.
     
    The US has banned transactions with gambling payment processors.
     
    So pinnacle goes in to business with a clothing manufacturer in England.  This clothing manufacturer accepts EFT's from american customers.  The clothing manufacturer is a sovereign nation - England - where there is no rules about sending money to offshore gaming.
     
    The clothing manufacturer sends your funds to pinny. 
     
    When you want to get paid you get a check from the clothing manufacturer in England.
     
    Please.  This shit is ridiculous.  There is just no way in hell a bank can stop it and the books will quickly come up with easy ways for you to get around it.
    Support your local animal shelter. I am on twitter.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noles2006:

    Okay... so, fine, a cashier's check to Sam Smith in Antigua... how do we get the money from "Mr. Smith" safely?
     
    Let me set up a scenario for you.
     
    The US has banned transactions with gambling payment processors.
     
    So pinnacle goes in to business with a clothing manufacturer in England.  This clothing manufacturer accepts EFT's from american customers.  The clothing manufacturer is a sovereign nation - England - where there is no rules about sending money to offshore gaming.
     
    The clothing manufacturer sends your funds to pinny. 
     
    When you want to get paid you get a check from the clothing manufacturer in England.
     
    Please.  This shit is ridiculous.  There is just no way in hell a bank can stop it and the books will quickly come up with easy ways for you to get around it.
     
    Thetriplesharp
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    Posted: Sep. 30, 2006 - 1:06 AM ET #234

    Vanzack you sure know your stuff...ever thought of running for Congress...heard a seat is opening up in Florida...some pervert Republican just resigned after emailing a teenage boy and requesting his pic
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    Vanzack you sure know your stuff...ever thought of running for Congress...heard a seat is opening up in Florida...some pervert Republican just resigned after emailing a teenage boy and requesting his pic
     
    Brassknux
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    Posted: Sep. 30, 2006 - 1:07 AM ET #235

    Vanzack--Great job in this thread. Thanks for all of your responses to people. It's much appreciated.
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    Vanzack--Great job in this thread. Thanks for all of your responses to people. It's much appreciated.
     
    slc5610
    slc5610
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    Posted: Sep. 30, 2006 - 1:09 AM ET #236

    Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:

     
    Let me set up a scenario for you.
     
    The US has banned transactions with gambling payment processors.
     
    So pinnacle goes in to business with a clothing manufacturer in England.  This clothing manufacturer accepts EFT's from american customers.  The clothing manufacturer is a sovereign nation - England - where there is no rules about sending money to offshore gaming.
     
    The clothing manufacturer sends your funds to pinny. 
     
    When you want to get paid you get a check from the clothing manufacturer in England.
     
    Please.  This shit is ridiculous.  There is just no way in hell a bank can stop it and the books will quickly come up with easy ways for you to get around it.
     
    if you are the clothing manuf. in europe, you could make a mint laundering that $$$$ charging a small fee.
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    Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:

     
    Let me set up a scenario for you.
     
    The US has banned transactions with gambling payment processors.
     
    So pinnacle goes in to business with a clothing manufacturer in England.  This clothing manufacturer accepts EFT's from american customers.  The clothing manufacturer is a sovereign nation - England - where there is no rules about sending money to offshore gaming.
     
    The clothing manufacturer sends your funds to pinny. 
     
    When you want to get paid you get a check from the clothing manufacturer in England.
     
    Please.  This shit is ridiculous.  There is just no way in hell a bank can stop it and the books will quickly come up with easy ways for you to get around it.
     
    if you are the clothing manuf. in europe, you could make a mint laundering that $$$$ charging a small fee.
     
    vanzack
    vanzack
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    Posted: Sep. 30, 2006 - 1:13 AM ET #237

    Quote Originally Posted by slc5610:

     
    if you are the clothing manuf. in europe, you could make a mint laundering that $$$$ charging a small fee.
     
    One correction.  ITS NOT LAUNDERING.
     
    US citizens have a fatal flaw of assuming that our laws are the worlds laws.

    In England - in fact almost the whole rest of the world - it is totally legal to gamble and send funds to books.  They are doing nothing wrong.
     
    Just like the pot bar in amsterdam.  Do you think they check your passport to see if you are American?  They are held to the laws of the Netherlands not the USA.
    Support your local animal shelter. I am on twitter.
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    Quote Originally Posted by slc5610:

     
    if you are the clothing manuf. in europe, you could make a mint laundering that $$$$ charging a small fee.
     
    One correction.  ITS NOT LAUNDERING.
     
    US citizens have a fatal flaw of assuming that our laws are the worlds laws.

    In England - in fact almost the whole rest of the world - it is totally legal to gamble and send funds to books.  They are doing nothing wrong.
     
    Just like the pot bar in amsterdam.  Do you think they check your passport to see if you are American?  They are held to the laws of the Netherlands not the USA.
     
    uscsom09
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    Posted: Sep. 30, 2006 - 1:19 AM ET #238

    Awesome vanzack...the Republicans just fucked themselves right in the asshole.  We are still going to be able to gamble on-line and they are going to take a hit in November.  I honestly appreciate this Repubs...now when I get in the voting booth I just have to hit the straight ticket Democrat vote button.  FUCK YOU BILL FRIST!!!!!!!!!
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    Awesome vanzack...the Republicans just fucked themselves right in the asshole.  We are still going to be able to gamble on-line and they are going to take a hit in November.  I honestly appreciate this Repubs...now when I get in the voting booth I just have to hit the straight ticket Democrat vote button.  FUCK YOU BILL FRIST!!!!!!!!!
     
    july4433
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    Posted: Sep. 30, 2006 - 1:20 AM ET #239

    Quote Originally Posted by NJDevils:

    i havent bought a lottery ticket in i cant even remember
    Thanks for the reply,  just my luck. The only guy who doesn't buy lotto tickets is the only response I get. Thanks again, but that isn't the point, you do you have brothers who buy lotto tickets, father, mother, sister, friends, who buy lotto tickets? Tell them all to stop buying lottery tickets. Spread the word to everyone you know. That is how an effective boycott begins? what does anyone think? Imagine this half of all the lottery gamblers stop gambling, the states lose billions of dollars each month, The governors of these states will have these Republican idiots in their offices so fast it would make their heads spin. That's how a boycott might work? Anyone else ready to tell all of their fellow assciates to boycott the lotteris and get the governers to have a closed door talk with their fellow Congressional representatives or senators? Anyone?
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    Quote Originally Posted by NJDevils:

    i havent bought a lottery ticket in i cant even remember
    Thanks for the reply,  just my luck. The only guy who doesn't buy lotto tickets is the only response I get. Thanks again, but that isn't the point, you do you have brothers who buy lotto tickets, father, mother, sister, friends, who buy lotto tickets? Tell them all to stop buying lottery tickets. Spread the word to everyone you know. That is how an effective boycott begins? what does anyone think? Imagine this half of all the lottery gamblers stop gambling, the states lose billions of dollars each month, The governors of these states will have these Republican idiots in their offices so fast it would make their heads spin. That's how a boycott might work? Anyone else ready to tell all of their fellow assciates to boycott the lotteris and get the governers to have a closed door talk with their fellow Congressional representatives or senators? Anyone?
     
    cd329
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    Posted: Sep. 30, 2006 - 1:20 AM ET #240

    I swear to God if a person ever says to me again how much safer they feel with republicians in control of this country, am gonna knock their fuckin head off.  Oh yes i feel so much safer when i go to bed at night, only thing is i have no fuckin freedoms left.  Heres an idea maybe our governement should just lock up everybody in the country in jails, that way they can protect us all better.  Only let us out to go to work and then back to jail at night.
    I blame all the stupid fuckin republicians in this country who follow what those hyprocrite religious right goofballs have to say.  Use your friggin brains and stop voting the same way they do.
    Never thought i would say this in my lifetime, but THE U.S.A. really is starting to blow. The politicians we have got in office right now are no differnt then the terrorists we are trying to fight.
    Thank God thou they didnt ban lotteries, horse racing and casinos, at least i can still lose my money on those forms of gambling.
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    I swear to God if a person ever says to me again how much safer they feel with republicians in control of this country, am gonna knock their fuckin head off.  Oh yes i feel so much safer when i go to bed at night, only thing is i have no fuckin freedoms left.  Heres an idea maybe our governement should just lock up everybody in the country in jails, that way they can protect us all better.  Only let us out to go to work and then back to jail at night.
    I blame all the stupid fuckin republicians in this country who follow what those hyprocrite religious right goofballs have to say.  Use your friggin brains and stop voting the same way they do.
    Never thought i would say this in my lifetime, but THE U.S.A. really is starting to blow. The politicians we have got in office right now are no differnt then the terrorists we are trying to fight.
    Thank God thou they didnt ban lotteries, horse racing and casinos, at least i can still lose my money on those forms of gambling.
     
    iggles05
    iggles05
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    Posted: Sep. 30, 2006 - 1:21 AM ET #241

    Throwback...to answer ur question on how to start ur own book its simple

    1) you need to establish a clientel who will place bets with u

    2) u have to make sure u have enough money to cover ur clientel's bets everyweek..if they are average betters          (50-100 a game) u will most likely need 6-10 grand to start out, but i have friends who have started with 2-4 k

    3) u need to set what bets u will take and what ur juice is, eg. parlays (2,3,4,5 team??) reverses, teasers (6,7,9   point...usually on 6 pt Teasers 50 loses 60, 7 point 50 loses 65-70 and on 9 pt depending on u anywhere from 70-90)

    4) find an up to date website such as covers or some online sports book (if they are still around) to get ur lines to and then start taking bets....and then do exactly what an online book does, if everyone is pounding the fav hard then bumb the line a .5 point or a point accordingly

    i would recommend not taking bets until the day of the game..early lines will kill u plus it is a lot more work, instead of being a book 3-4 days a week u a a book 24/7...and it is always good to have at least one horrible bettor who wagers a good amount a week and loses 60% of the year

    other than that there isnt much to it...most locals have monday close out the week and tuesday start out the new one...so essentially a betting week runs tuesday to the following monday and payouts/payups are on friday or saturday

    if u do it right...there isnt really a way to do it wrong..u should end up the year on top, unless u know a lot of winning bettors....books wouldnt be in business and make so much money if they didnt win the majority of the time


    GL


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    Throwback...to answer ur question on how to start ur own book its simple

    1) you need to establish a clientel who will place bets with u

    2) u have to make sure u have enough money to cover ur clientel's bets everyweek..if they are average betters          (50-100 a game) u will most likely need 6-10 grand to start out, but i have friends who have started with 2-4 k

    3) u need to set what bets u will take and what ur juice is, eg. parlays (2,3,4,5 team??) reverses, teasers (6,7,9   point...usually on 6 pt Teasers 50 loses 60, 7 point 50 loses 65-70 and on 9 pt depending on u anywhere from 70-90)

    4) find an up to date website such as covers or some online sports book (if they are still around) to get ur lines to and then start taking bets....and then do exactly what an online book does, if everyone is pounding the fav hard then bumb the line a .5 point or a point accordingly

    i would recommend not taking bets until the day of the game..early lines will kill u plus it is a lot more work, instead of being a book 3-4 days a week u a a book 24/7...and it is always good to have at least one horrible bettor who wagers a good amount a week and loses 60% of the year

    other than that there isnt much to it...most locals have monday close out the week and tuesday start out the new one...so essentially a betting week runs tuesday to the following monday and payouts/payups are on friday or saturday

    if u do it right...there isnt really a way to do it wrong..u should end up the year on top, unless u know a lot of winning bettors....books wouldnt be in business and make so much money if they didnt win the majority of the time


    GL


     
    iggles05
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    Posted: Sep. 30, 2006 - 1:29 AM ET #242

    KOAJ - it is the best of both worlds when a local who knows how to make a website makes their own gambling site...however i would tell him to watch himself...my uncle's book had an online site and within a year he was nailed by the fuzz because they got wind of it and it was so easy to trace and all saved on a server....he basically put himself away (besides the fucker who ratted because he was down 20k ) 

    i mean most local authorities dont care about books and i know a ton of cops who either r books or place bets but if they public gets wind of it (especially when cops r running books, in a related note see Gretzsky's wife and Tkachuck) the bible thumpers get on their high horse and the police have to shut it down because they cant ignore a public outcry
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    KOAJ - it is the best of both worlds when a local who knows how to make a website makes their own gambling site...however i would tell him to watch himself...my uncle's book had an online site and within a year he was nailed by the fuzz because they got wind of it and it was so easy to trace and all saved on a server....he basically put himself away (besides the fucker who ratted because he was down 20k ) 

    i mean most local authorities dont care about books and i know a ton of cops who either r books or place bets but if they public gets wind of it (especially when cops r running books, in a related note see Gretzsky's wife and Tkachuck) the bible thumpers get on their high horse and the police have to shut it down because they cant ignore a public outcry
     
    Dollaz
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    Posted: Sep. 30, 2006 - 1:30 AM ET #243

    I am confused on the laws of gambling?  It is illegal to be the bookie, but its not illegal to place a bet?  So, they can't go after you for placing a bet?  What about the reporting of income if you make a profit?
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    I am confused on the laws of gambling?  It is illegal to be the bookie, but its not illegal to place a bet?  So, they can't go after you for placing a bet?  What about the reporting of income if you make a profit?
     
    vanzack
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    Posted: Sep. 30, 2006 - 1:36 AM ET #244

    Quote Originally Posted by Dollaz:

    I am confused on the laws of gambling?  It is illegal to be the bookie, but its not illegal to place a bet?  So, they can't go after you for placing a bet?  What about the reporting of income if you make a profit?
     
    It is illegal to take bets.
     
    It is legal to place bets at the federal level.
     
    Some states have state laws banning placing bets - usually a misdemeanor and extremely rarely prosecuted.
     
    You absolutely have to report your winnings properly to the IRS.  This is the one area that you can absolutely get in trouble with.
    Support your local animal shelter. I am on twitter.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dollaz:

    I am confused on the laws of gambling?  It is illegal to be the bookie, but its not illegal to place a bet?  So, they can't go after you for placing a bet?  What about the reporting of income if you make a profit?
     
    It is illegal to take bets.
     
    It is legal to place bets at the federal level.
     
    Some states have state laws banning placing bets - usually a misdemeanor and extremely rarely prosecuted.
     
    You absolutely have to report your winnings properly to the IRS.  This is the one area that you can absolutely get in trouble with.
     
    Dollaz
    Dollaz
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    Posted: Sep. 30, 2006 - 1:39 AM ET #245

    So, you report illegal gambling winnings?
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    So, you report illegal gambling winnings?
     
    vanzack
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    Posted: Sep. 30, 2006 - 1:40 AM ET #246

    Quote Originally Posted by Dollaz:

    So, you report illegal gambling winnings?
     
    No, I report LEGAL gambling winnings.
     
    And you should too.
    Support your local animal shelter. I am on twitter.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dollaz:

    So, you report illegal gambling winnings?
     
    No, I report LEGAL gambling winnings.
     
    And you should too.
     
    Dollaz
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    Posted: Sep. 30, 2006 - 1:43 AM ET #247

    Ok, so add gambling winnings when reporting income is the right thing to do.  Do you have to report what type of gambling winnings you had?

    I ask cause I went to Vegas for the first time and won some money.
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    Ok, so add gambling winnings when reporting income is the right thing to do.  Do you have to report what type of gambling winnings you had?

    I ask cause I went to Vegas for the first time and won some money.
     
    Dollaz
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    Posted: Sep. 30, 2006 - 1:44 AM ET #248

    Does it matter if its under a certain amount?
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    Does it matter if its under a certain amount?
     
    vanzack
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    Posted: Sep. 30, 2006 - 1:44 AM ET #249

    Quote Originally Posted by Dollaz:

    Ok, so add gambling winnings when reporting income is the right thing to do.  Do you have to report what type of gambling winnings you had?

    I ask cause I went to Vegas for the first time and won some money.
     
    Line 21 of your 1040 is "other income".
     
    You write or type the word "gambling" and you put it there.  They dont care if its vegas, lottery, horses, slots, sportsgambling or poker.  You dont tell they dont ask.
    Support your local animal shelter. I am on twitter.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dollaz:

    Ok, so add gambling winnings when reporting income is the right thing to do.  Do you have to report what type of gambling winnings you had?

    I ask cause I went to Vegas for the first time and won some money.
     
    Line 21 of your 1040 is "other income".
     
    You write or type the word "gambling" and you put it there.  They dont care if its vegas, lottery, horses, slots, sportsgambling or poker.  You dont tell they dont ask.
     
     
    vanzack
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    Posted: Sep. 30, 2006 - 1:45 AM ET #250

    Quote Originally Posted by Dollaz:

    Does it matter if its under a certain amount?
     
    No.  If you win 100 bucks in theory you are required to report it.
     
    You can write off your losses against it though.
     
    There are threads devoted to this topic all over covers.  Do a search.
     
    Support your local animal shelter. I am on twitter.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dollaz:

    Does it matter if its under a certain amount?
     
    No.  If you win 100 bucks in theory you are required to report it.
     
    You can write off your losses against it though.
     
    There are threads devoted to this topic all over covers.  Do a search.
     
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