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If Christ died on the cross for all of humanity

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Posted: #51
You don't say,very interesting SirJohnDrake
 
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Posted: #52
Quote Originally Posted by SirJohnDrake:

Correction: 2000 years ago AIDS did not exist dummy, furthermore mocking Him not a good idea, I mean what you're gonna say to Him at judgment day just before He shoves your dumb ass into hell?

SJD, i will give you an insight into Ace....

Here is his favourite sportsman of all time

https://www.espncricinfo.com/sri-lanka-v-australia-2011/content/image/526723.html?object=7656

 
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Posted: #53
Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

SJD, i will give you an insight into Ace....

Here is his favourite sportsman of all time

https://www.espncricinfo.com/sri-lanka-v-australia-2011/content/image/526723.html?object=7656







 
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Posted: #54
Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

Below are just 2 that are NOT Christians.

Tacitus - In his annals wrote that Jesus was crucified under Pontius Pilate.

So a man named Jesus was crucified according to this one historian

Flavius Josephus - Mentions Jesus, John the Baptist. Scholars note that Josephus corroberates the new testament to detail.

He has been credited by many as recording some of the earliest history of Jesus Christ outside of the gospels,[4] this being an item of contention among historians.

 


It will take more than this
 
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Posted: #55
Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

Answer is above.

The people crucified were ALL paying for there sins, ie, theives etc etc......Jesus was innocent, 100% sin free.

Sources outside bible please

The other people you mentioned were paying (punished) for their sins. Jesus was crucified for other peoples sins....

Sources

How can you compare the 2?

Don't need to, because you have no sources to prove all of this...

 
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Posted: #56
Quote Originally Posted by SirJohnDrake:

Correction: 2000 years ago AIDS did not exist dummy, furthermore mocking Him not a good idea, I mean what you're gonna say to Him at judgment day just before He shoves your dumb ass into hell?







 
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Posted: #57

Everyone is entitiled to believe what they want to believe....

I have given you 2 writers that are NOT Christians and who are OUTSIDE the bible who gave an account for Jesus Christ.

 
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Posted: #58
JESUS DID NOT EXIST  
 
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Posted: #59
Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

Everyone is entitiled to believe what they want to believe....

I have given you 2 writers that are NOT Christians and who are OUTSIDE the bible who gave an account for Jesus Christ.


1.1. No Primary Source (First-Person) Accounts of Jesus Exist

No historians of the time mention Jesus. Suetonius (65-135) does not. Pliny the Younger only mentions Christians (Paulists) with no comment of Jesus himself. Tacitus mentions a Jesus, but it is likely that after a century of Christian preaching Tacitus was just reacting to these rumours, or probably talking about one of the many other Messiah's of the time. Josephus, a methodical, accurate and dedicated historian of the time mentions John the Baptist, Herod, Pilate and many aspects of Jewish life but does not mention Jesus. (TheTestimonium Flavianum has been shown to be a third century Christian fraud). He once mentions a Jesus, but gives no information other than that he is a brother of a James. Jesus was not an unusual name, either. Justus, another Jewish historian who lived in Tiberias (near Kapernaum, a place Jesus frequented) did not mention Jesus nor any of his miracles. It is only in the evidence of later writers, writing about earlier times, that we find a Jesus. What is more surprising (Jesus could simply have been unknown to local historians) is that academics note that the gospels themselves do not allude to first-hand historical sources, either!

 
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Posted: #60
These threads never end...believe what you want and carry on 
 
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Posted: #61
Quote Originally Posted by SYSTEM:


1.1. No Primary Source (First-Person) Accounts of Jesus Exist

No historians of the time mention Jesus. Suetonius (65-135) does not. Pliny the Younger only mentions Christians (Paulists) with no comment of Jesus himself. Tacitus mentions a Jesus, but it is likely that after a century of Christian preaching Tacitus was just reacting to these rumours, or probably talking about one of the many other Messiah's of the time. Josephus, a methodical, accurate and dedicated historian of the time mentions John the Baptist, Herod, Pilate and many aspects of Jewish life but does not mention Jesus. (TheTestimonium Flavianum has been shown to be a third century Christian fraud). He once mentions a Jesus, but gives no information other than that he is a brother of a James. Jesus was not an unusual name, either. Justus, another Jewish historian who lived in Tiberias (near Kapernaum, a place Jesus frequented) did not mention Jesus nor any of his miracles. It is only in the evidence of later writers, writing about earlier times, that we find a Jesus. What is more surprising (Jesus could simply have been unknown to local historians) is that academics note that the gospels themselves do not allude to first-hand historical sources, either!

So Jesus didnt even exist now?

 
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Posted: #62
Quote Originally Posted by SirJohnDrake:

2000 years ago AIDS did not exist dummy, furthermore mocking Him not a good idea, I mean what you're gonna say to Him at judgment day just before he shoves your dumb ass into hell?

please dont let me have to listen to any more of the blind stupidity that is SJD and rostos? but since he doesnt exist i think ill be okay
 
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Posted: #63
Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

So Jesus didnt even exist now?


Your bible jesus that "rose from the dead" and "walked on water" and "died for our sins"
great story though
 
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Posted: #64
Quote Originally Posted by PokinSmot:

from my recollection.......

it is forbidden to worship a symbol, a statue, idols, and pray to a blue eyed, blonde haired hippie. to make things worse, no one knows when Jesus was born, nor do they know what he looked like. I don't understand, symbolism goes against God's message yet a lot of so called believers of God use it for good luck or reminders.

Chimpo made a point....If someone you loved died of a gun shot wound, are you going to have a gun or a bullet around your neck to remind you of your loved one? i think not...the memory is with you in heart.


 

  I think some of those gangs-- MS , 18ST , Crips, Bloods --Tatoo bullet as died members of their own.    Maybe it's a gangsta / Mob mentality.
 
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Posted: #65

Quote Originally Posted by misfits:

  since he doesnt exist i think ill be okay

No...you won't be ok because he exists...sorry to burst your bubble but hey you can't help it, I mean your username says it all...misfits...you must be a member of maladjusted people...lol

misfit: 1. the act or condition of misfitting  2. anything that misfits, as a badly fitting garment  3. a person not suited to his position, associates, etc.; maladjusted person

 
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Posted: #66

Jesus had to do miraculous deeds to prove He was the Son of God, for only God is able to do things like walk on water, heal the sick and crippled, feed the multitudes with one basket and lastly resurrect from the dead for which He is the first and not the last because devout believers will also be resurrected from the dead to spend eternal life in the Kingdom of Heaven with our Lord...amen to that bruthaa!

 

 
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Posted: #67
Jesus is not the son of God. God and Jesus is one. Jesus when they came looking for him they asked are you Jesus or God and he said I AM !!!!!!!!!
 
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Posted: #68

great question................ 

 
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Posted: #69
Quote Originally Posted by SirJohnDrake:

No...you won't be ok because he exists...sorry to burst your bubble but hey you can't help it, I mean your username says it all...misfits...you must be a member of maladjusted people...lol

misfit: 1. the act or condition of misfitting  2. anything that misfits, as a badly fitting garment  3. a person not suited to his position, associates, etc.; maladjusted person

MISFITS               SAMHAIN



 
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Posted: #70
Quote Originally Posted by SirJohnDrake:

No...you won't be ok because he exists...sorry to burst your bubble but hey you can't help it, I mean your username says it all...misfits...you must be a member of maladjusted people...lol

misfit: 1. the act or condition of misfitting  2. anything that misfits, as a badly fitting garment  3. a person not suited to his position, associates, etc.; maladjusted person

just because you want something to be real doesnt mean it is. you are so dense you make corky from life goes on look like a rocket scientist. i think you were just born in the wrong time. you need to go back 500 years or so to fit in, where the church ruled with an iron fist and terrorized, tortured and killed anyone who dared use their brain. you dont belong in a world where science, common sense and free thinking are let loose. you prefer to stay blindfolded to the truth of things, staying closed minded and brainwashed, clinging to antiquated fairy tales that have been proven false over and over again. the worst thing is that deep down you know just how wrong you are, but are too entrenched in your position to let it go, afraid of how you will look to others. so you march on, knowing how ridiculous you sound, cutting and pasting mindless drivel, not ever posting a coherent thought or reply to any question posed. but then you have no factual source to form any argument or rebuttal from so you lost before you even had a chance to begin.......
 
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Posted: #71
Quote Originally Posted by SirJohnDrake:

Let me explain to you what is the big deal of why Christ had to die on the cross to save humanity.

"For God loved the world so much that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life" (John 3:16).

Before Adam and Eve sinned (Genesis 3), they had a good relationship with God. Therefore, they were not ashamed to come into God's presence. But after they sinned, their relationship with God changed, and they were ashamed to come into God's physical presence. Sin had separated them and the entire human race-including you-from God.

But God did not want sin to keep people from having a relationship with him. So he provided a way in which people could be cleansed of their sins and live with him in heaven forever. He gave his only Son, Jesus, as the perfect payment for everyone's sins.

So in essence Christ dying on the cross was the bridge that was needed to fill in the gap that was between God and people's sins. Jesus Christ was the only one who ever lived without sinning and so by him dying on the cross it was the perfect sacrifice that was needed to pay for everyone's sins. Without that bridge all humanity would have been doomed and no one I repeat no one would have been allowed to share a relationship with God in his Heavenly Kingdom! 

 So now if you believe that Jesus Christ is your Lord Savior who died on the cross for you and you have changed your ways by not sinning anymore you will enter the Kingdom of Heaven someday and will have eternal life with God and the rests of the believers who are saved.


Thanks for this, this is a great illustration of the points of the bible to me. I totally get your point and it makes good sense to me. Now here is mine, since Jesus was the gift of God to the people and the bridge to heaven that God intended, did he really sacrifice anything? Did Jesus really sacrifice anything by dying on the cross? Yes, I will easily and obviously concede the point it was painful but my point is this, if you were in that position and told that you must be crucified for all of mankind to have any shot at heaven, do you as a rational person have a say?
Lets say for a second that you decide, nah, do not feel like being crucified today, I am going to take a pass and just miracle myself out of here and over to Hawaii. Hypothetical now, could you still go to heaven? I think your Dad would be awfully pissed, don't you.
So the only point I am making is that maybe, and I said maybe, dying on the cross to save all of humanity and allow them into heaven should not be viewed as all that great of a sacrifice? That is all I am saying.
 
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Posted: #72
We all take it as a sacrifice but if we slow down and look at the facts and just the facts, maybe we should think differently?  I kind of believe Jesus may not have had a choice. For you to sacrifice, do you have to have a choice?
If he was the Son of God, did he feel pain? Could he have chosen not to feel pain. If he could make the blind see, feed thousands etc, could he not miracle away some nails and some pain?
I do not know guys, my mind is a little twisted and these are the thoughts I have at night.  I am asking these questions  honestly and objectively and appreciate some believers to help me. If you have to consult some theology experts I would be honored to hear their opinions. Some of this though does not really add up to me.
Crash-
 
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Posted: #73
I made a thread earlier because I saw you posted this one, and I wanted to answer it. It is a pretty long response; and it responds to several statements/questions in this thread. Please read it if you want, as I tried to explain it all the best I could.  Thanks CD
 
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Posted: #74
Quote Originally Posted by SYSTEM:


Your bible jesus that "rose from the dead" and "walked on water" and "died for our sins"
great story though

Look, i think i may have mentioned this here before, even if you had seen this with your own eyes, you would still have been a skeptic....

Look at sep 11...The whole thing was caught on camera, invesitgated at nauseum, forensics, several what thousand witnesses, several hundred testimonies, people, govt, etc etc........AND YOU KNOW WHAT THE RESULT IS?

THERE ARE STILL SKEPTICS NO MATTER WHAT. NO MATTER WHAT, THERE WILL ALWAYS BE SKEPTICS. LOOK AT THE ATTACK IN YOUR OWN BACKYARD 10 YEARS AGO, ALL CAUGHT ON FILM, WITNESSES, ETC ETC ETC......AND THERE ARE STILL SKEPTICS.......

Who would every think the govt would bomb up there own buildings and kill what 5000 people? No way, surely not...

This post is not about if they did or not, the main point is, no matter how radicle the claim, wether it is caught on film, etc etc etc,THERE WILL ALWAYS BE SKEPTICS.

Why would what happened 2000 years ago be different? Humans back then are humans today

 
 
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Posted: #75

Before anyone says anything else,

Why cant anyone answer my question on post 21?

Conviniently left out huh?

 

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