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    All Forums | General Discussion

    If Christ died on the cross for all of humanity

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    JasonBay
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    JasonBay
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    Posted: Dec. 7, 2011 - 12:03 AM ET #1576

    ok. there's supernatural creator(s)! (not really)

     

    got any evidence for yours?

     

     

    didn't think so...

     

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    ok. there's supernatural creator(s)! (not really)

     

    got any evidence for yours?

     

     

    didn't think so...

     

     
    Rostos
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    Posted: Dec. 7, 2011 - 12:07 AM ET #1577

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonBay:

    'A' god could exist...  how could I possibly state anything for sure..?

    there isn't any evidence for these magical beings you speak of... nor is there any for the one(s) you worship..

    I've made no claim... you have... and have nothing to back it up.

    Read post 1573...

    The relaity is atheists have taken a bigger leap of faith than theists....

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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonBay:

    'A' god could exist...  how could I possibly state anything for sure..?

    there isn't any evidence for these magical beings you speak of... nor is there any for the one(s) you worship..

    I've made no claim... you have... and have nothing to back it up.

    Read post 1573...

    The relaity is atheists have taken a bigger leap of faith than theists....

     
    Rostos
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    Posted: Dec. 7, 2011 - 12:11 AM ET #1578

    Quote Originally Posted by jagerfury:

    It's called Pascal's wager, and has been well refuted as a nonsense propasition in any entry level college course in logic or philosophy. Just  because it is "new" to you, and seems to spark a light in your already biased brain doesn't mean you are right. Try and do a little research outside of the bible. Once again, using the bible to prove the truth of the bible is an elementary fail at the most basic foundations of argument, and logic.

    It is ONLY refuted because the people against it CLAIM there is actually a loos or a sunk cost associated with a belief, ie, time for church, donations, sacrificing ones own desires for God etc etc. These are the claims as to why it fails.

    These sunk costs are an illusion.

    At worst, visiting church even though i truely believe in God is a great hour for peace, quiet, meditative prayers and a sense of cleansing.......Factors which certainly make you feel good.

    Therefore the refutations for Pascals wager are very poor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jagerfury:

    It's called Pascal's wager, and has been well refuted as a nonsense propasition in any entry level college course in logic or philosophy. Just  because it is "new" to you, and seems to spark a light in your already biased brain doesn't mean you are right. Try and do a little research outside of the bible. Once again, using the bible to prove the truth of the bible is an elementary fail at the most basic foundations of argument, and logic.

    It is ONLY refuted because the people against it CLAIM there is actually a loos or a sunk cost associated with a belief, ie, time for church, donations, sacrificing ones own desires for God etc etc. These are the claims as to why it fails.

    These sunk costs are an illusion.

    At worst, visiting church even though i truely believe in God is a great hour for peace, quiet, meditative prayers and a sense of cleansing.......Factors which certainly make you feel good.

    Therefore the refutations for Pascals wager are very poor.

     
    Rostos
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    Posted: Dec. 7, 2011 - 12:12 AM ET #1579

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonBay:

    ok. there's supernatural creator(s)! (not really)

     

    got any evidence for yours?

     

     

    didn't think so...

     

    Read post 1573, while it doesnt prove the Christian God, it certainly deems atheism to be false.

    With arguments along with the Cosmological argument points to a very very powerful case for the Christian God

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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonBay:

    ok. there's supernatural creator(s)! (not really)

     

    got any evidence for yours?

     

     

    didn't think so...

     

    Read post 1573, while it doesnt prove the Christian God, it certainly deems atheism to be false.

    With arguments along with the Cosmological argument points to a very very powerful case for the Christian God

     
    SYSTEM
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    Posted: Dec. 7, 2011 - 12:44 AM ET #1580

    Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

    Read post 1573, while it doesnt prove the Christian God, it certainly deems atheism to be false.

    atheism is not a belief dumb ass

    With arguments along with the Cosmological argument points to a very very powerful case for the Christian God

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

    Read post 1573, while it doesnt prove the Christian God, it certainly deems atheism to be false.

    atheism is not a belief dumb ass

    With arguments along with the Cosmological argument points to a very very powerful case for the Christian God

     
    Rostos
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    Posted: Dec. 7, 2011 - 1:11 AM ET #1581

    Quote Originally Posted by SYSTEM:

    If atheism is not a belief system, then an atheist can prove beyond doubt that God doesnt exist. Can you do that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by SYSTEM:

    If atheism is not a belief system, then an atheist can prove beyond doubt that God doesnt exist. Can you do that?

     
    SYSTEM
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    Posted: Dec. 7, 2011 - 1:13 AM ET #1582

    Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

    If atheism is not a belief system, then an atheist can prove beyond doubt that God doesnt exist. Can you do that?


    an atheist doesn't have to...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

    If atheism is not a belief system, then an atheist can prove beyond doubt that God doesnt exist. Can you do that?


    an atheist doesn't have to...
     
    Mikniks
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    Posted: Dec. 7, 2011 - 1:18 AM ET #1583

    Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

    If atheism is not a belief system, then an atheist can prove beyond doubt that God doesnt exist. Can you do that?




    Okay and you can't prove he/she/it does exist so we're right back to where we started...  Essentially, no one can KNOW...


    And I'm just curious Rostos...  Let's say, hypothetically of course, that I wanted to live a christian life and attempt to repent for my sins, but I can't bring myself to believe in what I'm doing and all I can do is fake it...  Does this count?...  If not, how is it fair that god gave me a brain that doesn't allow me logically to believe in him...  Then what?  I go to hell because he gave me a brain that won't allow me to believe??  Or is faking it okay??
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

    If atheism is not a belief system, then an atheist can prove beyond doubt that God doesnt exist. Can you do that?




    Okay and you can't prove he/she/it does exist so we're right back to where we started...  Essentially, no one can KNOW...


    And I'm just curious Rostos...  Let's say, hypothetically of course, that I wanted to live a christian life and attempt to repent for my sins, but I can't bring myself to believe in what I'm doing and all I can do is fake it...  Does this count?...  If not, how is it fair that god gave me a brain that doesn't allow me logically to believe in him...  Then what?  I go to hell because he gave me a brain that won't allow me to believe??  Or is faking it okay??
     
    Rostos
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    Posted: Dec. 7, 2011 - 1:23 AM ET #1584

    Quote Originally Posted by SYSTEM:


    an atheist doesn't have to...

    Is it possible God caused the universe to come into existence?

    yes or no?

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    Quote Originally Posted by SYSTEM:


    an atheist doesn't have to...

    Is it possible God caused the universe to come into existence?

    yes or no?

     
    Rostos
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    Posted: Dec. 7, 2011 - 1:28 AM ET #1585

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikniks:




    Okay and you can't prove he/she/it does exist so we're right back to where we started...  Essentially, no one can KNOW...

    I never said it can be proven. I simply sighted very poweful sign posts. Essentially, faith covers the shortfall between evidence and belief.

    And I'm just curious Rostos...  Let's say, hypothetically of course, that I wanted to live a christian life and attempt to repent for my sins, but I can't bring myself to believe in what I'm doing and all I can do is fake it...  Does this count?...  If not, how is it fair that god gave me a brain that doesn't allow me logically to believe in him...  Then what?  I go to hell because he gave me a brain that won't allow me to believe??  Or is faking it okay??

    When questions are asked in relation to judgement, no one is in a position to answer that. No one, because we arent the judge..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikniks:




    Okay and you can't prove he/she/it does exist so we're right back to where we started...  Essentially, no one can KNOW...

    I never said it can be proven. I simply sighted very poweful sign posts. Essentially, faith covers the shortfall between evidence and belief.

    And I'm just curious Rostos...  Let's say, hypothetically of course, that I wanted to live a christian life and attempt to repent for my sins, but I can't bring myself to believe in what I'm doing and all I can do is fake it...  Does this count?...  If not, how is it fair that god gave me a brain that doesn't allow me logically to believe in him...  Then what?  I go to hell because he gave me a brain that won't allow me to believe??  Or is faking it okay??

    When questions are asked in relation to judgement, no one is in a position to answer that. No one, because we arent the judge..

     
    SYSTEM
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    Posted: Dec. 7, 2011 - 1:45 AM ET #1586

    Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

    Is it possible God caused the universe to come into existence?

    yes or no?


    depends on what you mean by "god"...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

    Is it possible God caused the universe to come into existence?

    yes or no?


    depends on what you mean by "god"...
     
    Mikniks
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    Posted: Dec. 7, 2011 - 3:30 AM ET #1587

    Well Rostos, wouldn't you say as a human being, that it would seem unfair if i had to burn in hell for that?  I'd have to burn in hell because the brain he gave me wouldn't allow me to believe in him...  Seems kinda silly, wouldn't you say?
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    Well Rostos, wouldn't you say as a human being, that it would seem unfair if i had to burn in hell for that?  I'd have to burn in hell because the brain he gave me wouldn't allow me to believe in him...  Seems kinda silly, wouldn't you say?
     
    Rostos
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    Posted: Dec. 7, 2011 - 6:44 AM ET #1588

    Quote Originally Posted by SYSTEM:


    depends on what you mean by "god"...

    An infinitily powerful , loving creator of the universe?

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    Quote Originally Posted by SYSTEM:


    depends on what you mean by "god"...

    An infinitily powerful , loving creator of the universe?

     
    Rostos
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    Posted: Dec. 7, 2011 - 6:52 AM ET #1589

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikniks:

    Well Rostos, wouldn't you say as a human being, that it would seem unfair if i had to burn in hell for that?  I'd have to burn in hell because the brain he gave me wouldn't allow me to believe in him...  Seems kinda silly, wouldn't you say?

    This is the main issue, we are not the judge, therefore i cannot say who goes to heavan or who goes to hell. We arent the judge.

    For all that i know, you could go to heavan, System could go to heavan, i really DONT KNOW, no one knows.

    I just know, love God with all your heart, admit that i am a sinner, do my best not to sin and believe in Christ for his salvation.

    Thats all you can do.

    Btw, this is just my opinion, but i believe every single human being KNOWS deep down there is a God, for as the bible says we are without excuse. I firmly believe every single person knows deep down God exists, however, for a multitude of reasons, they deny it, reasons everything from themselves not wanting to be told what to do, what is right, what is wrong, man cannot stand that something is more supreme than they are, desire to sin, not happy with there life, emotional reasons, man thinking he is the smartest being, money is there God etc etc. A litany of reasons in my view why man supresses the truth.

    Anyways, that is my opinion.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikniks:

    Well Rostos, wouldn't you say as a human being, that it would seem unfair if i had to burn in hell for that?  I'd have to burn in hell because the brain he gave me wouldn't allow me to believe in him...  Seems kinda silly, wouldn't you say?

    This is the main issue, we are not the judge, therefore i cannot say who goes to heavan or who goes to hell. We arent the judge.

    For all that i know, you could go to heavan, System could go to heavan, i really DONT KNOW, no one knows.

    I just know, love God with all your heart, admit that i am a sinner, do my best not to sin and believe in Christ for his salvation.

    Thats all you can do.

    Btw, this is just my opinion, but i believe every single human being KNOWS deep down there is a God, for as the bible says we are without excuse. I firmly believe every single person knows deep down God exists, however, for a multitude of reasons, they deny it, reasons everything from themselves not wanting to be told what to do, what is right, what is wrong, man cannot stand that something is more supreme than they are, desire to sin, not happy with there life, emotional reasons, man thinking he is the smartest being, money is there God etc etc. A litany of reasons in my view why man supresses the truth.

    Anyways, that is my opinion.....

     
    SYSTEM
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    Posted: Dec. 7, 2011 - 10:56 AM ET #1590

    Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

    An infinitily powerful , loving creator of the universe?


    since we have no evidence of one, I would say no...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

    An infinitily powerful , loving creator of the universe?


    since we have no evidence of one, I would say no...
     
    SYSTEM
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    Posted: Dec. 7, 2011 - 10:59 AM ET #1591

    Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

    This is the main issue, we are not the judge, therefore i cannot say who goes to heavan or who goes to hell. We arent the judge.

    For all that i know, you could go to heavan, System could go to heavan, i really DONT KNOW, no one knows.

    I just know, love God with all your heart, admit that i am a sinner, do my best not to sin and believe in Christ for his salvation.

    Thats all you can do.

    Btw, this is just my opinion, but i believe every single human being KNOWS deep down there is a God, for as the bible says we are without excuse. I firmly believe every single person knows deep down God exists, however, for a multitude of reasons, they deny it, reasons everything from themselves not wanting to be told what to do, what is right, what is wrong, man cannot stand that something is more supreme than they are, desire to sin, not happy with there life, emotional reasons, man thinking he is the smartest being, money is there God etc etc. A litany of reasons in my view why man supresses the truth.

    Anyways, that is my opinion.....


    he's asking what you think (is it fair or make sense, not if we're going to heavEN or not), not for you to judge...stop dancing around the question...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

    This is the main issue, we are not the judge, therefore i cannot say who goes to heavan or who goes to hell. We arent the judge.

    For all that i know, you could go to heavan, System could go to heavan, i really DONT KNOW, no one knows.

    I just know, love God with all your heart, admit that i am a sinner, do my best not to sin and believe in Christ for his salvation.

    Thats all you can do.

    Btw, this is just my opinion, but i believe every single human being KNOWS deep down there is a God, for as the bible says we are without excuse. I firmly believe every single person knows deep down God exists, however, for a multitude of reasons, they deny it, reasons everything from themselves not wanting to be told what to do, what is right, what is wrong, man cannot stand that something is more supreme than they are, desire to sin, not happy with there life, emotional reasons, man thinking he is the smartest being, money is there God etc etc. A litany of reasons in my view why man supresses the truth.

    Anyways, that is my opinion.....


    he's asking what you think (is it fair or make sense, not if we're going to heavEN or not), not for you to judge...stop dancing around the question...
     
    Mikniks
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    Posted: Dec. 7, 2011 - 3:17 PM ET #1592

    Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

    This is the main issue, we are not the judge, therefore i cannot say who goes to heavan or who goes to hell. We arent the judge.

    For all that i know, you could go to heavan, System could go to heavan, i really DONT KNOW, no one knows.

    I just know, love God with all your heart, admit that i am a sinner, do my best not to sin and believe in Christ for his salvation.

    Thats all you can do.

    Btw, this is just my opinion, but i believe every single human being KNOWS deep down there is a God, for as the bible says we are without excuse. I firmly believe every single person knows deep down God exists, however, for a multitude of reasons, they deny it, reasons everything from themselves not wanting to be told what to do, what is right, what is wrong, man cannot stand that something is more supreme than they are, desire to sin, not happy with there life, emotional reasons, man thinking he is the smartest being, money is there God etc etc. A litany of reasons in my view why man supresses the truth.

    Anyways, that is my opinion.....



    I don't think everyone knows deep down inside that there is a god.  I think people WANT to believe in god.  I'm one of those people.  I wish I did believe in god, I just can't...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

    This is the main issue, we are not the judge, therefore i cannot say who goes to heavan or who goes to hell. We arent the judge.

    For all that i know, you could go to heavan, System could go to heavan, i really DONT KNOW, no one knows.

    I just know, love God with all your heart, admit that i am a sinner, do my best not to sin and believe in Christ for his salvation.

    Thats all you can do.

    Btw, this is just my opinion, but i believe every single human being KNOWS deep down there is a God, for as the bible says we are without excuse. I firmly believe every single person knows deep down God exists, however, for a multitude of reasons, they deny it, reasons everything from themselves not wanting to be told what to do, what is right, what is wrong, man cannot stand that something is more supreme than they are, desire to sin, not happy with there life, emotional reasons, man thinking he is the smartest being, money is there God etc etc. A litany of reasons in my view why man supresses the truth.

    Anyways, that is my opinion.....



    I don't think everyone knows deep down inside that there is a god.  I think people WANT to believe in god.  I'm one of those people.  I wish I did believe in god, I just can't...
     
    SirJohnDrake
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    Posted: Dec. 7, 2011 - 6:49 PM ET #1593

    Quote Originally Posted by chithappens:

    drake nice post but there is strong belief john  who wrote revelation(we think he wrote not totally acsertained it was disciple john) exiled a normal death on a greek island

    Yes, I know that John died a natural death, that's why I said most of them were crucified in my last post. Let me just go through all of them with a brief description and in the manner on how they died.

    Andrew was the brother of Peter, and a son of Jonas. He lived in Bethsaida and Capernaum and was a fisherman before he was called by Jesus. He died a martyr. He was crucified, but feeling unworthy to be crucified on the same-shaped cross as his Master, begged that his be different. So, he was crucified on an X-shaped cross, which is still called Saint Andrew's cross and which is one of his apostolic symbols.

    Bartholomew Nathanael, son of Talmai, lived in Cana of Galilee. He was a missionary in Armenia. He died a martyr. He was flayed alive with knives. His apostolic symbol is three parallel knives.

    James, the Elder, Boanerges, son of Zebedee and Salome, brother of John the Apostle; a fisherman who lived in Bethsaida, Capernaum, and Jerusalem. He died a martyr. He was beheaded by Herold, A.D. 44. His symbol is three shells, the sign of his pilgrimage by the sea.

    James, the Lesser or Younger, son of Alphaeus and Mary, lived in Galilee. He was the brother of the Apostle Jude. He preached in Palestine and Egypt and was crucified in Egypt. He died as a martyr and his body was sawed in pieces. The saw became his apostolic symbol.

    John Boanerges, son of Zebedee and Salome, brother of James, the apostle, was known as the Beloved Disciple. A fisherman who lived in Bethsaida, Capernaum, and Jerusalem. He was banished to the Isle of Patmos, he was later freed and died a natural death. It is said an attempt was made on his life by giving him a chalice of poison from which God spared him. He died of natural causes. A chalice with a snake in it is his symbol.

    Judas Iscariot, the traitor was the son of Simon who lived in Kerioth of Judah. He betrayed Jesus for thirty pieces of silver and afterwards hanged himself (Matt. 26:14,16). His apostolic symbol is a hangman's noose or a money purse with pieces of silver falling from it.

    Jude, Thaddaeus, son of Alphaeus and Mary. He was a brother of James the Younger. He lived in Galilee. He preached in Assyria and Persia and died a martyr in Persia. He was killed with arrows at Ararat. The chosen symbol for him is the ship because he was a missionary thought to be a fisherman.

    Matthew, or Levi, son of Alphaeus, lived in Capernaum. He was a publican or tax collector. He died a martyr in Ethiopia. The apostolic symbol of Matthew is three money bags which remind us that he was a tax collector before Jesus called him.

    Peter, Simon Peter, son of Jonas, was a fisherman who lived in Bethsaida and Capernaum. Peter was martyred on the cross. He requested that he might be crucified head downward for he was not worthy to die as his Lord had died. His apostolic symbol is a cross upside down with crossed keys. The keys represent Peter as holder of the keys to the Kingdom of Heaven.

    Philip, tradition says that Philip preached in Phrygia and died a martyr at Hierapolis. Philip came from Bethsaida, the town from which Peter and Andrew came from. The likelihood is that he, too, was a fisherman. He died by hanging. While he was dying, he requested that his body be wrapped not in linen but in papyrus for he was not worthy than even his dead body should be treated as the body of Jesus had been treated. The symbol of Philip is a basket, because of his part in the feeding of the five thousand. It is he that stressed the cross as a sign of Christianity and victory.

    Simon, the Zealot, one of the little-known followers called the Canaanite or Zelotes, lived in Galilee. Tradition says he was crucified and died as a martyr. His apostolic symbol is a fish lying on a Bible, which indicated he was a former fisherman who became a fisher of men through preaching.

    Thomas Didymus lived in Galilee. Tradition says he labored in Parthia, Persia, and India, suffering martyrdom near Madaras, at Mt. St. Thomas, India. It is said that he was commissioned to build a palace for the king of India, and he was killed with a spear as a martyr for his Lord. His symbol is a group of spears, stone, and arrows.

    So we see here that ten of Jesus disciples died as martyrs for the truth they all knew. John died from natural causes, and Judas hanged himself, feeling guilty for betraying Jesus would be the likely reason.

    These disciples or apostles of Christ were the foundation stones of His Church. In Rev. 21:14 we are told that the twelve foundations of the wall of the new Jerusalem will have in them the names of the twelve apostles. It is evident, therefore, that our Lord attaches great importance to these men.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chithappens:

    drake nice post but there is strong belief john  who wrote revelation(we think he wrote not totally acsertained it was disciple john) exiled a normal death on a greek island

    Yes, I know that John died a natural death, that's why I said most of them were crucified in my last post. Let me just go through all of them with a brief description and in the manner on how they died.

    Andrew was the brother of Peter, and a son of Jonas. He lived in Bethsaida and Capernaum and was a fisherman before he was called by Jesus. He died a martyr. He was crucified, but feeling unworthy to be crucified on the same-shaped cross as his Master, begged that his be different. So, he was crucified on an X-shaped cross, which is still called Saint Andrew's cross and which is one of his apostolic symbols.

    Bartholomew Nathanael, son of Talmai, lived in Cana of Galilee. He was a missionary in Armenia. He died a martyr. He was flayed alive with knives. His apostolic symbol is three parallel knives.

    James, the Elder, Boanerges, son of Zebedee and Salome, brother of John the Apostle; a fisherman who lived in Bethsaida, Capernaum, and Jerusalem. He died a martyr. He was beheaded by Herold, A.D. 44. His symbol is three shells, the sign of his pilgrimage by the sea.

    James, the Lesser or Younger, son of Alphaeus and Mary, lived in Galilee. He was the brother of the Apostle Jude. He preached in Palestine and Egypt and was crucified in Egypt. He died as a martyr and his body was sawed in pieces. The saw became his apostolic symbol.

    John Boanerges, son of Zebedee and Salome, brother of James, the apostle, was known as the Beloved Disciple. A fisherman who lived in Bethsaida, Capernaum, and Jerusalem. He was banished to the Isle of Patmos, he was later freed and died a natural death. It is said an attempt was made on his life by giving him a chalice of poison from which God spared him. He died of natural causes. A chalice with a snake in it is his symbol.

    Judas Iscariot, the traitor was the son of Simon who lived in Kerioth of Judah. He betrayed Jesus for thirty pieces of silver and afterwards hanged himself (Matt. 26:14,16). His apostolic symbol is a hangman's noose or a money purse with pieces of silver falling from it.

    Jude, Thaddaeus, son of Alphaeus and Mary. He was a brother of James the Younger. He lived in Galilee. He preached in Assyria and Persia and died a martyr in Persia. He was killed with arrows at Ararat. The chosen symbol for him is the ship because he was a missionary thought to be a fisherman.

    Matthew, or Levi, son of Alphaeus, lived in Capernaum. He was a publican or tax collector. He died a martyr in Ethiopia. The apostolic symbol of Matthew is three money bags which remind us that he was a tax collector before Jesus called him.

    Peter, Simon Peter, son of Jonas, was a fisherman who lived in Bethsaida and Capernaum. Peter was martyred on the cross. He requested that he might be crucified head downward for he was not worthy to die as his Lord had died. His apostolic symbol is a cross upside down with crossed keys. The keys represent Peter as holder of the keys to the Kingdom of Heaven.

    Philip, tradition says that Philip preached in Phrygia and died a martyr at Hierapolis. Philip came from Bethsaida, the town from which Peter and Andrew came from. The likelihood is that he, too, was a fisherman. He died by hanging. While he was dying, he requested that his body be wrapped not in linen but in papyrus for he was not worthy than even his dead body should be treated as the body of Jesus had been treated. The symbol of Philip is a basket, because of his part in the feeding of the five thousand. It is he that stressed the cross as a sign of Christianity and victory.

    Simon, the Zealot, one of the little-known followers called the Canaanite or Zelotes, lived in Galilee. Tradition says he was crucified and died as a martyr. His apostolic symbol is a fish lying on a Bible, which indicated he was a former fisherman who became a fisher of men through preaching.

    Thomas Didymus lived in Galilee. Tradition says he labored in Parthia, Persia, and India, suffering martyrdom near Madaras, at Mt. St. Thomas, India. It is said that he was commissioned to build a palace for the king of India, and he was killed with a spear as a martyr for his Lord. His symbol is a group of spears, stone, and arrows.

    So we see here that ten of Jesus disciples died as martyrs for the truth they all knew. John died from natural causes, and Judas hanged himself, feeling guilty for betraying Jesus would be the likely reason.

    These disciples or apostles of Christ were the foundation stones of His Church. In Rev. 21:14 we are told that the twelve foundations of the wall of the new Jerusalem will have in them the names of the twelve apostles. It is evident, therefore, that our Lord attaches great importance to these men.

     
    Rostos
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    Posted: Dec. 7, 2011 - 6:49 PM ET #1594

    Quote Originally Posted by SYSTEM:


    since we have no evidence of one, I would say no...

    You, just like anyone else dont have any empirical evidence of how the universe was created, God as one cause of the universe, cannot be empirically disproved, therefore, logically you have a "belief" that God doesnt exist, atheism is a belief system........

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    Quote Originally Posted by SYSTEM:


    since we have no evidence of one, I would say no...

    You, just like anyone else dont have any empirical evidence of how the universe was created, God as one cause of the universe, cannot be empirically disproved, therefore, logically you have a "belief" that God doesnt exist, atheism is a belief system........

     
    Rostos
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    Posted: Dec. 7, 2011 - 6:53 PM ET #1595

    Quote Originally Posted by SYSTEM:


    he's asking what you think (is it fair or make sense, not if we're going to heavEN or not), not for you to judge...stop dancing around the question...

    How am i dodging the question? I am not being asked a simple question about a cort case, i am being asked about the mind of an infinitly powerful mind where my mind is extremely limited in comparison.

    I dont know what is inside Mikniks heart and mind, how he has lived, how am i in a position to judge where he goes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SYSTEM:


    he's asking what you think (is it fair or make sense, not if we're going to heavEN or not), not for you to judge...stop dancing around the question...

    How am i dodging the question? I am not being asked a simple question about a cort case, i am being asked about the mind of an infinitly powerful mind where my mind is extremely limited in comparison.

    I dont know what is inside Mikniks heart and mind, how he has lived, how am i in a position to judge where he goes.

     
    Rostos
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    Posted: Dec. 7, 2011 - 6:54 PM ET #1596

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikniks:



    I don't think everyone knows deep down inside that there is a god.  I think people WANT to believe in god.  I'm one of those people.  I wish I did believe in god, I just can't...

    IMO, i think its the opposite way around.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikniks:



    I don't think everyone knows deep down inside that there is a god.  I think people WANT to believe in god.  I'm one of those people.  I wish I did believe in god, I just can't...

    IMO, i think its the opposite way around.....

     
    SYSTEM
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    Posted: Dec. 7, 2011 - 7:12 PM ET #1597

    Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

    How am i dodging the question? I am not being asked a simple question about a cort case, i am being asked about the mind of an infinitly powerful mind where my mind is extremely limited in comparison.

    I dont know what is inside Mikniks heart and mind, how he has lived, how am i in a position to judge where he goes.


    ok, fine, dodge the question. he is not asking you what "god" thinks or to judge whether he will go to hell or not, he is asking, do you think is sounds fair or logical, ...no problem though, I understand why you don't want to answer the question...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

    How am i dodging the question? I am not being asked a simple question about a cort case, i am being asked about the mind of an infinitly powerful mind where my mind is extremely limited in comparison.

    I dont know what is inside Mikniks heart and mind, how he has lived, how am i in a position to judge where he goes.


    ok, fine, dodge the question. he is not asking you what "god" thinks or to judge whether he will go to hell or not, he is asking, do you think is sounds fair or logical, ...no problem though, I understand why you don't want to answer the question...

     
    SirJohnDrake
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    Posted: Dec. 7, 2011 - 7:15 PM ET #1598

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikniks:

      wouldn't you say as a human being, that it would seem unfair if i had to burn in hell for that?  I'd have to burn in hell because the brain he gave me wouldn't allow me to believe in him...  Seems kinda silly, wouldn't you say?

    We can't say what is fair and what is not, all I know is that God is just.

     He the Creator makes the rules that we must abide by and not us. You just can't think in your terms.

    and when you say your brain doesn't allow you to believe in Him...it just shows your stubborness and self-righteouness.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikniks:

      wouldn't you say as a human being, that it would seem unfair if i had to burn in hell for that?  I'd have to burn in hell because the brain he gave me wouldn't allow me to believe in him...  Seems kinda silly, wouldn't you say?

    We can't say what is fair and what is not, all I know is that God is just.

     He the Creator makes the rules that we must abide by and not us. You just can't think in your terms.

    and when you say your brain doesn't allow you to believe in Him...it just shows your stubborness and self-righteouness.

     
    jagerfury
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    Posted: Dec. 7, 2011 - 7:31 PM ET #1599

    Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

    You, just like anyone else dont have any empirical evidence of how the universe was created, God

    There is a shit-ton of evidence of how the universe was created. Physical, measurable, evidence. Major components of the formation of the universe are well known. Your proposition is utterly false, next.

    I'd rather be playing D&D.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

    You, just like anyone else dont have any empirical evidence of how the universe was created, God

    There is a shit-ton of evidence of how the universe was created. Physical, measurable, evidence. Major components of the formation of the universe are well known. Your proposition is utterly false, next.

     
     
    Rostos
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    Posted: Dec. 7, 2011 - 7:32 PM ET #1600

    Quote Originally Posted by SYSTEM:


    ok, fine, dodge the question. he is not asking you what "god" thinks or to judge whether he will go to hell or not, he is asking, do you think is sounds fair or logical, ...no problem though, I understand why you don't want to answer the question...

    I know one thing, God is fair and will judge righteously.

    Maybe, just maybe Mikmiks based on what he says will go to heavan, i dont know, i am guessing, but i know that God is fair and will judge right, thats all i can say...

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    Quote Originally Posted by SYSTEM:


    ok, fine, dodge the question. he is not asking you what "god" thinks or to judge whether he will go to hell or not, he is asking, do you think is sounds fair or logical, ...no problem though, I understand why you don't want to answer the question...

    I know one thing, God is fair and will judge righteously.

    Maybe, just maybe Mikmiks based on what he says will go to heavan, i dont know, i am guessing, but i know that God is fair and will judge right, thats all i can say...

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