Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:
Space, matter, time and energy are all that is part of the universe. These componants, space, time, energy and matter all BEGAN to exist.
Prior to this, there was no space, time, matter and energy.
There was NOTHING, no universe, nothing.
Begging the question (or
petitio principii, "assuming the initial point") is a type of
logical fallacy in which the
proposition to be proven is assumed implicitly or explicitly in the
premise.
You're taking for granted a principle that is still not known for certain. This is not a "fact" that you can use as a premise of an argument because it has never been (and may never be) proven, so your hypothetical question is irrelevant in this regard (although I'd argue it is irrelevant anyway). What you have failed to understand through all of this, amongst other things, is that to a sane, logical human being, your idea that there is a magical being who created the universe is ludicrous.
Think about the scientific world for a second: when a scientist makes an outrageous claim, what do you think happens? Do you think: (A) The other scientists dismiss him as a maniac unless he shows some real proof, or (B) The other scientists rush out to conduct millions of tests to show why he's wrong? The answer obviously is (A), and you consistently ask for (B) behavior. I'm trying once again to explain the Celestial Teapot ANALOGY, although you'll probably tell me that it's testable to find a teapot the size of an atom somewhere in the universe anyway and once again miss the point of the ANALOGY.
I can't prove a god doesn't exist, but you definitely can't prove he exists either. This axiom applies for unicorns, ghosts, fairies, Santa Claus, Harry Potter, the Flying Spaghetti Monster, etc. So why is it that all of these examples are ridiculous to you when the idea of a god is not? Because a book told you? Harry Potter has seven of them. Because your parents told you? They also told you Santa Claus was coming to visit every Christmas Eve. You don't have a valid reason to believe in god and not in the other mystical beings. Until you show me otherwise, you need to stop arguing semantics and start showing me some facts because, quite frankly, you and SirJohnDrake are making yourselves look very bad by doing so.
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