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Lets be honest about religion

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Posted: #176
The parents would tell you the tooth fairy is not real.
 
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Posted: #177
The parents would tell you the tooth fairy is not real.
 
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Posted: #178
Can I throw evolution into the mix?
 
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Posted: #179
Quote Originally Posted by ClubDirt:


i don't want to generalize about churchgoers as i'm sure peoploe have many reasons to go to church beyod what the original poster stated.  that being said, because of what i do, i bet i've met more born again christians than most people in this world.  it's amazing how many child mo0lesters, murderes, rapsists, and really, bad fuckin people are born again christians and want to tell me how all the truly bad shit they have done is ok now because of their god and this whole born again christian loohole.  

i've only met one born again christian in my normal social circles and he is pretty fuckin weird but for the most part, this is a scary group.  

 Youre one warped dude man without a clue...and not a reborn,

Now thats scary

 
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Posted: #180
Kitty, I think I love you.

It doesn't matter if theists throw out the ontological, cosmological, anthropic, transendental argument or the argument from personal experience, the lack of evidence for the existence of god is still evidence of its nonexistence. It's a fairy tale. The bible is nothing more than a poorly written novel. If there were any proof at all that any deity at existed, there would be only 1 religion and no atheists. Grow up people.
 
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Posted: #181

Quote Originally Posted by lazzybum:

Kitty, I think I love you.

It doesn't matter if theists throw out the ontological, cosmological, anthropic, transendental argument or the argument from personal experience, the lack of evidence for the existence of god is still evidence of its nonexistence. It's a fairy tale. Says who? The bible is nothing more than a poorly written novel. Says who? If there were any proof at all that any deity at existed, there would be only 1 religion and no atheists. Says who? Grow up people.

Says who?

Do you have a textbook which shows how a world would be if there was a God? Who wrote that textbook? Do you have a model world to go by which shows what you just said?

 
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Posted: #182
Quote Originally Posted by lazzybum:

Kitty, I think I love you.

It doesn't matter if theists throw out the ontological, cosmological, anthropic, transendental argument or the argument from personal experience, the lack of evidence for the existence of god is still evidence of its nonexistence. It's a fairy tale. The bible is nothing more than a poorly written novel. If there were any proof at all that any deity at existed, there would be only 1 religion and no atheists. Grow up people.


Like Sam Kinison would say "Hey Man I like Your thinking" 

Granted many don't understand the complexities of the brain, and thoughts/concepts created are sometimes understood the same as delusional dreams and beliefs....I will never claim the most intelligent/memory retentive brain, but I do understand BullShit and also have a small understanding of science which provided life. I know gravity and complex DNA is probably "only God's work" ....So I should just bow down, but I have a problem w/ any God or Jesus designing jack shit in my life....OK I leave this space  blank for all the ignorant "god,Religion" dumbfuck, unintelligent, thoughtlessness, moronic SOULS....Please explain your moronicies so please LET ME HEAR YOUR FUCKING MORONIC ARGUMENTS ...I know Jesus clearly spoke to you and life is clearly great and forever ...So what did he design as a plan when the sun expands into a red-giant, do we desert the god-forsaken earth even when it will clearly die? Fuck man I'm struggling w/ God vs Evolution.....God provides 0 answers while evolution has all the answers....Sorry God you LOST
 
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Posted: #183

Quote Originally Posted by mwhit82:



Like Sam Kinison would say "Hey Man I like Your thinking" 

Granted many don't understand the complexities of the brain, and thoughts/concepts created are sometimes understood the same as delusional dreams and beliefs....I will never claim the most intelligent/memory retentive brain, but I do understand BullShit and also have a small understanding of science which provided life. I know gravity and complex DNA is probably "only God's work" ....So I should just bow down, but I have a problem w/ any God or Jesus designing jack shit in my life....OK I leave this space  blank for all the ignorant "god,Religion" dumbfuck, unintelligent, thoughtlessness, moronic SOULS....Please explain your moronicies so please LET ME HEAR YOUR FUCKING MORONIC ARGUMENTS ...I know Jesus clearly spoke to you and life is clearly great and forever ...So what did he design as a plan when the sun expands into a red-giant, do we desert the god-forsaken earth even when it will clearly die? Fuck man I'm struggling w/ God vs Evolution.....God provides 0 answers while evolution has all the answers....Sorry God you LOST

Just like there is ZERO evidence in the fossil record showing the complete transformation of one species into another........

I suppose after you finished smoking your quota of marijuana tonight you also think the Pittsburgh Pirates are MLB champions....

 
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Posted: #184
The main point is this: you can live your entire life as a good, moral person, without god or religion. Anyone can. If you were born into a different society, a different region, you could conceivably go through your entire life with no concept of god or religion at all. Then along comes a book that people claim was written by god. But all the evidence for this is purely speculative (at best) and is ultimately untestable. Whereas with evolution and believing only in the natural and the real, everything is defined by rules and observable evidence, and is testable where a definitive answer is ultimately possible.

So, to sum it up simply.

Theists: the end is faith; a definitive answer is IMPOSSIBLE
Nonbelievers: the end is science; a definitive answer is 100% possible

Please do not misconstrue my arguments for me claiming that we have the answers. We don't. All I'im saying is it's possible. There are just so many things religion can't explain (or explains in hundreds of different ways through hundreds of different religions) that it just doesn't make sense to believe.
 
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Posted: #185
Quote Originally Posted by KittyKatz286:

The main point is this: you can live your entire life as a good, moral person, without god or religion. Anyone can. If you were born into a different society, a different region, you could conceivably go through your entire life with no concept of god or religion at all. Then along comes a book that people claim was written by god. But all the evidence for this is purely speculative (at best) and is ultimately untestable. Whereas with evolution and believing only in the natural and the real, everything is defined by rules and observable evidence, and is testable where a definitive answer is ultimately possible.

So, to sum it up simply.

Theists: the end is faith; a definitive answer is IMPOSSIBLE
Nonbelievers: the end is science; a definitive answer is 100% possible

Please do not misconstrue my arguments for me claiming that we have the answers. We don't. All I'im saying is it's possible. There are just so many things religion can't explain (or explains in hundreds of different ways through hundreds of different religions) that it just doesn't make sense to believe.

Theists = Faith

Atheists = Faith

 
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Posted: #186
Theists = Faith

Atheists = Probability

I will not do this again. You are truly a moron. There are plenty of intelligent people here who actually want to have a debate about this. You do not. You want to argue for both sides in such a way that it supports you. I do not have faith in ANYTHING supernatural.
 
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Posted: #187

What you are is essentially this.

Consider a Jury who is in court for a murder trial. There are 2 suspects. Suspect A and Suspect B. It is definitly one of the 2 that commited the murder.

Neither suspect has been ruled out obviously.

You have basically said it is not suspect B even though you have no material evidence to prove it.....

 
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Posted: #188
Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

Just like there is ZERO evidence in the fossil record showing the complete transformation of one species into another........



I like to think all theists aren't this stupid.

Obviously god tired of playing golf in heaven where every shot was a hole in one. Par 3546, 2,000,000 miles? Hole in one. The existence of evil? If god is all powerful, why allow evil? He should presumably be able to destroy evil with the snap of a finger. Doesn't want to to? Why not? Not able to? Not all powerful.


 
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Posted: #189
Because the 2 arguments aren't on equal footing. I am not making a claim of supernatural, you are. So, since were in a trial hypothetical, you have to prove your side to me with clear and convincing evidence, which is obviously impossible. Therefore, with that being said, I will stick to the theory that doesn't involve magic.
 
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Posted: #190
Quote Originally Posted by KittyKatz286:

The main point is this: you can live your entire life as a good, moral person, without god or religion. Anyone can. If you were born into a different society, a different region, you could conceivably go through your entire life with no concept of god or religion at all. Then along comes a book that people claim was written by god. But all the evidence for this is purely speculative (at best) and is ultimately untestable. Whereas with evolution and believing only in the natural and the real, everything is defined by rules and observable evidence, and is testable where a definitive answer is ultimately possible.

So, to sum it up simply.

Theists: the end is faith; a definitive answer is IMPOSSIBLE
Nonbelievers: the end is science; a definitive answer is 100% possible

Please do not misconstrue my arguments for me claiming that we have the answers. We don't. All I'im saying is it's possible. There are just so many things religion can't explain (or explains in hundreds of different ways through hundreds of different religions) that it just doesn't make sense to believe.


I thought we went over this earlier Kitty -- not even science can give you a 100% definitive answer on the existence or non-existence of God.
 
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Posted: #191
Quote Originally Posted by Wizerguy:

 Youre one warped dude man without a clue...and not a reborn,

Now thats scary

what's incorrect about my post?  feel free to expand on youir comments, i'll discuss it with you. 

 
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Posted: #192

The main point is this: you can live your entire life as a good, moral person, without god or religion. Anyone can. If you were born into a different society, a different region, you could conceivably go through your entire life with no concept of god or religion at all. Then along comes a book that people claim was written by god. But all the evidence for this is purely speculative (at best) and is ultimately untestable. Whereas with evolution and believing only in the natural and the real, everything is defined by rules and observable evidence, and is testable where a definitive answer is ultimately possible.

__________

I asked my born again friend about this.....what happens to the person who is born into a God less society.....who never leaves the village....and thus never learns about God?

He told me that God takes this into account when judging the living and the dead.  Now that's pretty convenient. 

So you have to have faith in God to be saved.  But if you have no concept of God, you will also be saved.  But if you question whether God exists because you don't have any evidence.....or because some of the things in the world just don't make sense to you if God did exist, then you are not saved. 

As far as knowing in your heart that God exists, didn't all the people who have (incorrectly) predict the end of the world know that in their heart as well.

Well what do these people do?  Rather then saying, "maybe I was wrong," they say, "I must have interpreted the information wrong."

It's called cognitive dissonance.  When a person who has a strong belief in God sees something that may fly in the face of that belief, they explain away what happened to reduce dissonance rather than consider that maybe God doesn't exist (because they could never do this).

When I was growing up, I was exposed to church/God/Sunday school.....everything.  I sat in church and in those classes and I just had so many questions that didn't have answers to my satisfaction.  When I tried to ignore those questions, it caused me physical discomfort and stress because what I saw and my thoughts didn't work with what I was supposed to think.  So I had to either learn to ignore the questions I had (I tried....it was impossible and just made me feel worse) or to question whether God existed. 

 

 
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Posted: #193
kapono3 - clearly you didn't read what i said
 
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Posted: #194
I did read what you said, Kitty... where did I misinterpret you?
 
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Posted: #195

Quote Originally Posted by kaponofor3:

I did read what you said, Kitty... where did I misinterpret you?

This kitty character is hard to reason with, good luck in trying.

 
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Posted: #196
Quote Originally Posted by Wizerguy:

 Youre one warped dude man without a clue...and not a reborn,

Now thats scary

That clubdirt character is one scary dude indeed!!...oh and also a liar too!!, I mean no true born again Christian would commit any heinous crimes against another human being but this lying character said,  

"i don't want to generalize about churchgoers as i'm sure peoploe have many reasons to go to church beyod what the original poster stated.  that being said, because of what i do, i bet i've met more born again christians than most people in this world.  it's amazing how many child mo0lesters, murderes, rapsists, and really, bad fuckin people are born again christians and want to tell me how all the truly bad shit they have done is ok now because of their god and this whole born again christian loohole.  

i've only met one born again christian in my normal social circles and he is pretty fuckin weird but for the most part, this is a scary group."  
 
 
Oh and I would like to add that his grammar is atrocious and that he needs to understand once you proclaim to become a born again Christian you cannot sin anymore because if you do you will not be saved and so just because a person proclaims he is a born again Christian it doesn't mean he or she has a license to keep on sinning and still be forgiven by our Lord Almighty!

 
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Posted: #197
Quote Originally Posted by kaponofor3:

I did read what you said, Kitty... where did I misinterpret you?

Science does not have to give a 100% definitive answer on whether god exists. All I'm saying is it is possible that one day science may have a 100% definitive answer on how the universe began.

There won't be an issue with god because the burden of proof lies with the party making the claim.

And I think it is clear I can be reasoned with as I have been nothing but fair and honest (and I clearly am a reasonable person as you can see from my writing) in my discussions with you kapono.
 
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Posted: #198
Quote Originally Posted by KittyKatz286:



Theists: the end is faith; a definitive answer is IMPOSSIBLE
Nonbelievers: the end is science; a definitive answer is 100% possible



The end is the end. No matter what you say or what you believe, we are all going to end up dead.

If you have time, try to catch an episode of this.. https://tinyurl.com/4z9fvf4.

Keep an open mind while you are watching it. It is about people who have had death experiences and came back to life. I have only seen one episode of that, but I can assure you damn near all of these people had the same experience in a pattern that is eerily similar to each others. There is NOTHING is science that can contraindicate this. NOTHING.

I really would like for you to explain this phenomenon to me without bringing God into the equation.
 
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Posted: #199
I actually know what you are talking about and have seen an episode of one of the Science Channel shows that deals with this. Science has a way of explaining it. I will be honest and say I do not remember. Regardless, a few isolated instances of a possible afterlife don't overwhelm the countless things religion is unable to explain. Furthermore, and this is something you absolutely cannot dispute, there is no evidence whatsoever that this afterlife these people claim to have seen is the one depicted in the bible. For all we know it could be the Hindu nirvana or countless other possibilities. Like I said, my problem with god is more with the people who claim that the judeo-christian god is actually what god is; not so much with the people who claim "i believe god created the universe, but i don't know who or what god is."

Just remember this key point though: it is natural to not believe in god. The only way a child born today could have any concept of god is if someone told him. He would not develop this concept naturally.

I brought up this example in the other thread. Take a bunch of people and put them in a fully functioning society, isolated from the rest of the world, and don't tell them about god. They would not naturally reach the conclusion that some magical force exists.
 
 
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Posted: #200
Quote Originally Posted by callmetim:



The end is the end. No matter what you say or what you believe, we are all going to end up dead.

If you have time, try to catch an episode of this.. https://tinyurl.com/4z9fvf4.

Keep an open mind while you are watching it. It is about people who have had death experiences and came back to life. I have only seen one episode of that, but I can assure you damn near all of these people had the same experience in a pattern that is eerily similar to each others. There is NOTHING is science that can contraindicate this. NOTHING.

I really would like for you to explain this phenomenon to me without bringing God into the equation.

This might help explain what is going on...
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