Lets talk some Craps

So I recently starting getting into it. Been playing it with a friend who has been a regular at it for a long time.

Here is how he plays...Pass line, (backs it up to max 3x 4x whatever)...and plays the outside...4, 5, 9,10...assuming none of these are the point. He buys the 4 and 10...

what do you guys think of this??? Still learning this game and looking to maximize my odds. I know if a roll gets going, he can really rake in, as he pushes the numbers if it gets hot...

why play the pass line? your not getting the odds you get when you just play numbers on there own

craps is the best game to play in a casion in terms of odds and house edge....your playing the dice, there is virtually no house edge

ive seen nearly everyone on the pass line...why would this be a bad idea...please elaborate...

Crscrnshw -

Read this thread.

The key to craps is getting the highest odds you can.  Dont bother playing if it is "3, 4, or 5" times odds.

Bet the smallest you can on the pass line, and the most you can on the odds.

Betting the 5 and 9....

They pay you 14-10 when you should be getting 15-10.  Dont need to explain how this will kill you in the long run.

Here is a table - first column is the bet, second is the house hold %, third is the standard deviation.....

Lets try that again.....

This shows the house hold in the second column (displayed in percentage)

Pass/Come                 1.41% 1.00
Don't pass/don't come 1.36% 0.99
Field (2:1 on 12)           5.56% 1.08
Field (3:1 on 12)           2.78% 1.14
Any craps                  11.11% 2.51
Big 6,8                     9.09% 1.00
Hard 4,10                  11.11% 2.51
Hard 6,8                      9.09% 2.87
Place 6,8                  1.52% 1.08
Place 5,9                   4.00% 1.18
Place 4,10                 6.67% 1.32
Place (to lose) 4,10      3.03% 0.69
Proposition 2,12        13.89% 5.09
Proposition 3,11         11.11% 3.66
Proposition 7            16.67% 1.86

So your buddy, when he places the 5 and 9 is betting in to a 4% house hold, and the 4 and 10 is a 6.67% house hold.  Pretty terrible.

The pass line with max odds is the best way to go at a craps table, odds have 0% house hold (dont pass is basically the same).

Van,,,,Why should you bet the smallest amount possible on the original bet?  I agree with absolutley everything else you state.  If you are playing anything but pass/dont pass or come/dont come you are playing wrong,,,, flat out no exceptions.

I just cant figure out what I'm missing by the low starting wager strategy. 

General idea of craps: If you are risking say $50 per "session", then you should play $10 on the pass and take the maximum you can backing it up with $40 odds once the point has been established if they offer 4x or better.  If they only give you 3x odds, then you should start out with $12 on the pass and $36 on the back.  This is usually what is meant when saying to start with the smallest amount and back up with the max odds.

Van, and others..

was playing at the Hilton in Vegas last weekend....we would back it up to the max (I think we were) based on the point...so say we had 20...at times we had 80.

IM still new to this and I dont totally understand the %'s you put up Van

The percentages are the "house hold".  The higher the percentage, the more the house keeps of your money based on longterm expected value.  Basically like vig in sportsbetting - if you bet the passline, you are paying less vig than if you bet numbers.

So a couple of key points:

1.  Odds have 0% house hold - the best bet in the whole casino.

2.  You want to bet the bets that have the lowest percentages.  The higher the percentage, the more you will llose.

3.  Stay away from craps other than to have fun.

Exactly - and to add....

If you have 50 bucks, and you are on a $1 minimum bet table with 50X odds, you should bet 1 on the line and 49 behind.

That is what I meant above by betting the least you can on the pass line, and the most you can on the odds.

Yes - but there is no reason to come out.  If you read that thread - I think in the first post I talk about "putting" the numbers - in other words just putting $5 under a $2,500 odds bet on any number you want.

Why mess around with the come out roll at all?