Quote Posted by kitty:
Brother Sjd, The Skeptics are saying you are just giving contradictive convenient answers.
Mark 16:14-18
14-Afterward he(Jesus) appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.
15-And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16-He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17-And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18-They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
Christian position:
In Mark 16:16-18, Jesus is not talking to crowds of people but is talking only to his eleven disciples.
Jesus gave them special powers that were to be used in the 1st century to advance the faith.
This promise was not meant for all believers.
The "them that believe" is limited to the eleven disciples that were in this presence.
The fact that Jesus did not use words such as "you that believe" instead of "them that believe" is not really important.
Jesus did not intend for skeptics to come along and put words in his mouth because they want to find errors.
Commentary:
This is a typical Christian apologetic ploy.
They'll decide what's important and what's not important.
Christians today can't perform these signs so Jesus couldn't have meant what he said.
According to apologists, Jesus really meant to say something like this:
"Whoever among those of you here right now that believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever among those here right now that does not believe will be condemned.
And these signs will accompany those of you here who believe: In my name YOU will drive out demons; YOU will speak in new tongues; YOU will pick up snakes with YOUR hands; and when YOU drink deadly poison, it will not hurt YOU at all; YOU will place YOUR hands on sick people, and they will get well."
Christian position:
Mark 16:17-18 is clearly not promising that all believers would perform miracles.
Nor is there any other scripture to be found in the Bible that makes such a claim.
It must be painful for skeptics to learn that one of their cherished arguments against Jesus and the Bible is unfounded and completely deluded nonsense.
Your embarrassing performance will not be easy to live with.
True Christians have God on their side and skeptics have only their sick, fallen nature to rely on.
Commentary:
This is a nice example of deception, wishful thinking, and spiritual jingoism.
When Christians like this boast about God being on their side, it must embarrassing to have to tell a sick dying child in a hospital that the amazing Holy Spirit power of God will not be able to heal the child as Jesus promised.
When faced with reality, Christians can only impotently quote scripture and tell the dying child that they'll pray to Jesus for them to get well soon.
Perhaps Jesus is too busy making media appearances on burnt pieces of toast or projecting his image on panes of glass to take time out and work actual healing power through his faithful believers.
What a pathetic joke these cult members are.
Many preachers and professional apologists are also afflicted with this malady and they operate under the assumption that the Bible is actually only a rough draft of God's Word.
The final version of God's Word is really found inside their skulls, where they mentally rewrite the Bible, taking out the parts they don't like and inserting qualifiers to alter the text into something that conforms with their desires.
They'll decide what the Bible means, and then try to foist their "wisdom" on to the masses, often for a price.
Many Christian apologists consider themselves to be God's editors, and have no problem claiming to be ordained by the Almighty to do their noble work.
However, the promises found in Mark 16:16-18 clearly indicate that sweeping powers would be given to believers and these verses were not an anomaly.
There are many other verses that reinforce the promises made in Mark 16:16-18.
Jesus promised that belief was the magical ingredient that made all things possible.
This is exhibited in the Gospel of Mark.
WHy is their such an infatuation where people will end up? WHY?
Why are people so worried about where OTHERS will end up?
Are you them? DO you know whats inside their hearts? Do you know their circumstances?
NO, YOU DONT, NO ONE KNOWS. SO KEEP OUT OF THEIR BUSINESS......
JAMES 4:12
"There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you--who are you to judge your neighbor?"
WHy is their such an infatuation where people will end up? WHY?
Why are people so worried about where OTHERS will end up?
Are you them? DO you know whats inside their hearts? Do you know their circumstances?
NO, YOU DONT, NO ONE KNOWS. SO KEEP OUT OF THEIR BUSINESS......
JAMES 4:12
"There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you--who are you to judge your neighbor?"
Quote Posted by mellow:
What about Gandhi? He must be in Hell then, right? He lived as a devout Hindu and never accepted Jesus as his savior. However, he had singular praise for many of Jesus' words/teachings.
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I can't answer that but who knows maybe Gandhi was one of those last minute converters who finally accepted Jesus Christ as his Lord Savior, which I hope he did.
WHy is their such an infatuation where people will end up? WHY?
You need to ask your fellow religious nutjobs this
Why are people so worried about where OTHERS will end up?
Are you them? DO you know whats inside their hearts? Do you know their circumstances?
NO, YOU DONT, NO ONE KNOWS. SO KEEP OUT OF THEIR BUSINESS......
JAMES 4:12
"There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you--who are you to judge your neighbor?"
Prove it, or STFU
Quote Posted by mellow:
What about Gandhi? He must be in Hell then, right? He lived as a devout Hindu and never accepted Jesus as his savior. However, he had singular praise for many of Jesus' words/teachings.
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I can't answer that but who knows maybe Gandhi was one of those last minute converters who finally accepted Jesus Christ as his Lord Savior, which I hope he did.
System, prove there isnt.
you guys really are getting silly with this thread. Give it up, nobody has proof, nobody
Imagine having a bet where if you lose, you will not only lose your cash, but your soul will burn in hell forever...
Not very intelligent......
Imagine having a bet where if you lose, you will not only lose your cash, but your soul will burn in hell forever...
Not very intelligent......
Prove it...
This is the way i see things.....
You need to give yourself a chance. You need to swallow your pride, admit that you are a sinner and ask God in the most humble way to come to you...You need to be humble and open the door to invite him in your life.
Take it from their and see what happens....
However, if you refuse to do that because of your pride, not wanting to bow down to anyone but yourself and not admit that you are wrong, with the reprecussions and consequences of that spending in eternity in torture, to me, that is one of the most stupid things a human can ever do....It defies logic....
This aint a pascal wager where you better believe or else....If you allow God into your life, does that mean your life will be worse off than what it is now?
I can only see a win win situation here......
Wow a guy on youtube saying he's been to hell. It must be true! Hope you are joking USC, otherwise you're an idiot...Please stop with the nonsense!
This is the way i see things.....
You need to give yourself a chance. You need to swallow your pride, admit that you are a sinner and ask God in the most humble way to come to you...You need to be humble and open the door to invite him in your life.
Take it from their and see what happens....
However, if you refuse to do that because of your pride, not wanting to bow down to anyone but yourself and not admit that you are wrong, with the reprecussions and consequences of that spending in eternity in torture, to me, that is one of the most stupid things a human can ever do....It defies logic....
This aint a pascal wager where you better believe or else....If you allow God into your life, does that mean your life will be worse off than what it is now?
I can only see a win win situation here......
How do you let something that doesn't exist in your life Everything you say defies logic...
eternity in torture
Sorry system, but you are wrong also. Since you are claiming there is no God, prove it
see there is no way to do it, so all this bickering about it, is just a huge waste of time
Quote Posted by kitty:
In your most honest opinion, I would like you to answer 2 questions.
Let us assume, for the sake of these questions, that Ghandi maintained the same beliefs he had throughout his entire life, which were not in christianity or jesus.
With that being said...
1. Do you believe Ghandi is in heaven or hell?
2. Where do you believe Ghandi should be?
Your answers require no explanation nor do they require any assumptions beyond what I have stipulated. Your answers should be formatted as follows:
1. Answer
2. Answer
One word each.
Thank you.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry kitty but I just can't answer the way you want me to. I have to say a few things to make it perfectly clear in such a way that hopefully there will be no misunderstanding on what I'm conveying over to the reader.
First question: If at some point in Ghandi's life (or anyone else for that matter) he was made aware of Jesus Christ and understood the implications if he rejected Jesus Christ and continued rejecting Jesus Christ thruout the rest of his life then according to the scriptures I believe he is in hell.
However let's assume Ghandi (or anyone else for that matter) never heard of Jesus Christ or of God's written laws well then depending on God's judgment they could either go to heaven or hell.
Let me give you a passage in the bible to explain this further for more understanding.
"When the Gentiles sin, they will be destroyed, even though they never had God's written law. And the person, who do have God's law, will be judged by that law when they fail to obey it.
For merely listening to the law doesn't make us right with God. It is obeying the law that makes us right in His sight.
Even Gentiles, who do not have God's written law, show that they know His law when they instinctively obey it, even without having heard it.
They demonstrate that God's law is written in their hearts, for their own conscience and thoughts either accuse them or tell them they are doing right.
And this is the message I proclaim--that the day is coming when God, through Christ Jesus, will judge everyone's secret life." ----Romans 2:12-16 NLT
As to your second question: Sorry I can't answer that, it is not for me to judge anyone period!! God will decide where we should be after His judgment.
Sorry system, but you are wrong also. Since you are claiming there is no God, prove it
see there is no way to do it, so all this bickering about it, is just a huge waste of time
I didn't think so...
Quote Posted by kitty:
In your most honest opinion, I would like you to answer 2 questions.
Let us assume, for the sake of these questions, that Ghandi maintained the same beliefs he had throughout his entire life, which were not in christianity or jesus.
With that being said...
1. Do you believe Ghandi is in heaven or hell?
2. Where do you believe Ghandi should be?
Your answers require no explanation nor do they require any assumptions beyond what I have stipulated. Your answers should be formatted as follows:
1. Answer
2. Answer
One word each.
Thank you.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry kitty but I just can't answer the way you want me to. I have to say a few things to make it perfectly clear in such a way that hopefully there will be no misunderstanding on what I'm conveying over to the reader.
First question: If at some point in Ghandi's life (or anyone else for that matter) he was made aware of Jesus Christ and understood the implications if he rejected Jesus Christ and continued rejecting Jesus Christ thruout the rest of his life then according to the scriptures I believe he is in hell.
However let's assume Ghandi (or anyone else for that matter) never heard of Jesus Christ or of God's written laws well then depending on God's judgment they could either go to heaven or hell.
Let me give you a passage in the bible to explain this further for more understanding.
"When the Gentiles sin, they will be destroyed, even though they never had God's written law. And the person, who do have God's law, will be judged by that law when they fail to obey it.
For merely listening to the law doesn't make us right with God. It is obeying the law that makes us right in His sight.
Even Gentiles, who do not have God's written law, show that they know His law when they instinctively obey it, even without having heard it.
They demonstrate that God's law is written in their hearts, for their own conscience and thoughts either accuse them or tell them they are doing right.
And this is the message I proclaim--that the day is coming when God, through Christ Jesus, will judge everyone's secret life." ----Romans 2:12-16 NLT
As to your second question: Sorry I can't answer that, it is not for me to judge anyone period!! God will decide where we should be after His judgment.
but, it doesn't really matter, because you basically answered the question by not answering...
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