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Would Kobe or Jordan have been able to win with LBJ's supporting cast?

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Posted: #76

Quote Originally Posted by lightsout2184:



yeah he has to do it all because he doesnt make anyone better around him. Its not like they cant play basketball or make shots. All lebron has to do is win and then all the haters would be silenced.

People cannot be serious with this "LNJ does not make others around him better"     you cannot be serious, are you?

LBJ is around 5th in the league in assists.

Steve Nsh, Jason Kidd, Deron Williams, Rajon Ronda, Chris Paul

maybe I am missing a guy or two...then LEBRON JAMES is at the top of the league in assists.

Assists means you are getting others involved.  So he is 2nd in ppg and near the top of the league in assists....then he is chasing down folks to block shots

c'mon man......LBJ is human....and needs help.  It's amazing that Jammison got a pass and has not been criticized at all...b/c he was the one that was M.I.A. in the playoffs and in the Celtics series....and is more at faut than LBJ.......just a little more help and better "D" on Garnett could of  made all the difference in the world.  

 

 
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Posted: #77

BOTH YES......

Jordan would have had an easier time than Kobe, but Jordan and  Kobe have the IT factor that Lebron does not!!!

For all that have played sports....you know what the IT factor is...The best in the world have it (that's what seperates great from the best).

Kobe, Jordan, Magic, Bird etc... have the IT...Lebron??? verdict is still out, but not yet!!

 
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Posted: #78

a better shooting performance, less turnovers, and  a little more heart could have made all the difference in game 6.  THe entire team and coaching staff deserves blame, but the idea the media is treating lebron unfair is ridiculous.  He's the mvp and best player in the league, when he doesn't win he will receive the most criticism.  Just like Kobe when the  lakers weren'' winning and any other superstar(dirk, Nash, stodemire, etc) 

 
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Posted: #79
Jordan def...KOBE would have if delonte west didnt lay the pipe down on lebrons mom
 
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Posted: #80
Quote Originally Posted by dontbookme:

BOTH YES......

Jordan would have had an easier time than Kobe, but Jordan and  Kobe have the IT factor that Lebron does not!!!

For all that have played sports....you know what the IT factor is...The best in the world have it (that's what seperates great from the best).

Kobe, Jordan, Magic, Bird etc... have the IT...Lebron??? verdict is still out, but not yet!!

shocked to hear this coming from you, Book...

you saw all of those guys play... we can sit here and speculate all day... but based on the facts (the reality), the answer is NO!  and there really is no legit argument...

the FACT is that neither Jordan, Kobe, Bird nor Magic EVER won an NBA title without at least 1 perennial all-star standing next to them... IN FACT, none of them ever won an NBA title without AT LEAST one of the top 50 players of all time standing next to them...

think about that... people can say what they want about Pippen... i remember 2 years when Jordan came back that people debated whether or not Jordan was even the best player ON HIS OWN TEAM... for two years that was debated... Pippen was a triple double on a nightly basis...

Kareem... Shaq... McHale... Worthy... Rodman... Parrish...

any of these names ring a bell?  all of them in their prime...

what did Lebron have?  you can say he doesn't have IT... to me that is nonsensical...

 

we will judge Lebron with respect to those other greats IF and WHEN he ever gets into a comparable situation in the NBA... to date, there is absolutely nothing that allows us to compare Lebron's career (or the team's he has been on) to those other greats...

when it happens, we can re-open this for discussion...

 
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Posted: #81
Quote Originally Posted by lightsout2184:

I guess this will be an ongoing thing untill a couple more years. Im just praying that lebron ends up on a west coast team where he will never have the best record in the nba again. Or i hope he goes to a team with another star and then when he doesnt win i can watch all the lebron butt buddies debate some other excuse. Kobe and MJ make/made their teammates better around them. Lebron doesnt make anyone better. Odom, fisher and many others have taken paycuts to play with kobe and the lakers to win. Not one single player was willing to take a pay cut and go play with lebron.


that has to be a joke.,  he makes everyone he plays with that much better., but it is all about how much talent they have to start with., he can't make everyone all-stars.,  but they did win 66 & 61 games in back to back seasons with not that many players on the roster,. lebron made his teamates a lot better  !!!   one playoff series does not make or break his career fella.
 
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Posted: #82
and if the celtics., who were the world champions beat the magic..  umm  is d.howard,. v.carter., j.nelson and all those others going to be criticized anywhere near what they did to lebron and the cavs..,   nope  not ever close !
 
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Posted: #83
Jordan could win with 4 women playing on his team...........Lebron couldn't make a pimple on Jordans ass cheek
 
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Posted: #84

Quote Originally Posted by book_itjames11:

and if the celtics., who were the world champions beat the magic..  umm  is d.howard,. v.carter., j.nelson and all those others going to be criticized anywhere near what they did to lebron and the cavs..,   nope  not ever close !

 

Are any of these guys the mvp of the team with the best record?

 
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Posted: #85
Jordan had quality players all around him as did Kobe,There is no Pippen on the Cavs,and there is definetly no Odom,granted he did not play as well as he could have,did you guys notice that the Lakers played as well without Kobe as with him?Do you remember Jordan could not get past the Celts or the Pistons?the man is a beast Kobe can't hold his strap,I am a Celtic fan but I have enough B-Ball sense to know that he was beaten by 4 all star caliber players and who does he really have,put him on the Lakers and we all know what happens,automatic ring
 
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Posted: #86
Quote Originally Posted by dontbookme:

BOTH YES......

Jordan would have had an easier time than Kobe, but Jordan and  Kobe have the IT factor that Lebron does not!!!

For all that have played sports....you know what the IT factor is...The best in the world have it (that's what seperates great from the best).

Kobe, Jordan, Magic, Bird etc... have the IT...Lebron??? verdict is still out, but not yet!!


Where was Kobe's "IT factor" once Shaq left town? Oh yeah, that "IT factor" disappeared until they acquired Gasol....







 
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Posted: #87
Quote Originally Posted by The Giant:

Neither Kobe or Jordan would have won a title with Lebron's supporting cast.

Lebron is surrounded by garbage.

Garbage.

GARBAGE.

 

Garbage?  Really?

Really?

In that case we'll just give Lebron all the credit for having the best record in the NBA. and a pass for losing in the playoffs

 

 
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Posted: #88
Quote Originally Posted by Ice4Blood:

failure!  this entire write-up is off target...

 

one player makes all the difference... when was the last time an NBA team won the NBA championship with just 1 superstar surrounded by role players?  think about it, guys... we're not talking rocket science here... why does everyone always get this shit wrong?



The 2005 pistons pretty much did, granted all of their role players are terrific role players but Chancy was the closest thing that team had to a superstar and it would be a stretch to call him that
 
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Posted: #89

I guess is the question winning this series or a title?

A title would be an easy no and no.  Ice4Blood summed it up best in his posts why, no need to repeat the obvious.

This series, very likely no on Jordan and definitely no on Kobe.  Kobe already proved for years he can't win without some top notch teammates and with how badly (not surprising I might add) Jamison and Williams looked, I serioulsy doubt Jordan would've won either. 

 
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Posted: #90
I think it was said best earlier in the thread: put Lebron on the Lakers and what do you have? You'd have NBA playoffs for 2nd place because Stern would've handed them the trophy back in preseason. ALL this talk about LEBRON not being MJ or KOBE is crazy? The only person who wants to be M.J. is KOBE. Lebron is Lebron. He'll never be the pure shooter of the aforentioned two but he doesn't have to. He is the most explosive, agile, quick, 6'9 270lb dude to ever touch the rock. Will he ever get one (championship)? IF Vegas ever put out odds on that the betting trend would be as follows: 100% of bettors are on Lebron gets a RING!!!!!
 
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Posted: #91
I think it depends on who is sleeping with whose mom.


Realistically, I think comparisons like this are one of the biggest wastes of time you can conceive.

Can the 06 Longhorns beat the 95 Huskers? What about the 55 Sooners?

Then again, you could put this on your resume and we will probably see you on Sportscenter since all this does is throw buzz words around and not actually prove or bring anything new into light. What better way to create hype than to throw the names Lebron, MJ, and Kobe into a bag? This is literally pounding a square peg into a round hole until it kind of fits.

Jordan: Yes
Kobe: Yes

All three guys can control games, but MJ and Kobe do it differently and more effectively.
 
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Posted: #92
Quote Originally Posted by ct1016:

People cannot be serious with this "LNJ does not make others around him better"     you cannot be serious, are you?

LBJ is around 5th in the league in assists.

Steve Nsh, Jason Kidd, Deron Williams, Rajon Ronda, Chris Paul

maybe I am missing a guy or two...then LEBRON JAMES is at the top of the league in assists.

Assists means you are getting others involved.  So he is 2nd in ppg and near the top of the league in assists....then he is chasing down folks to block shots

c'mon man......LBJ is human....and needs help.  It's amazing that Jammison got a pass and has not been criticized at all...b/c he was the one that was M.I.A. in the playoffs and in the Celtics series....and is more at faut than LBJ.......just a little more help and better "D" on Garnett could of  made all the difference in the world.  

 



its not about assist. just mjs presence made people around him play above their ability. Anyone who has played sports knows a great team captain gets more from their players. of coarse he should get a lot of assist he always has the ball. if he makes the guys better around him then why do they still all suck. they would put up the same numbers on any team.  also kidd sucks lol. he is so slow and old. in his prime he was good.
 
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Posted: #93

Quote Originally Posted by Bruuuuce78:

Jordan could win with 4 women playing on his team...........Lebron couldn't make a pimple on Jordans ass cheek

Kobe did win some games with 4 women: Kawame, Cook, Smush and Sasha

 
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Posted: #94
Quote Originally Posted by book_itjames11:



that has to be a joke.,  he makes everyone he plays with that much better., but it is all about how much talent they have to start with., he can't make everyone all-stars.,  but they did win 66 & 61 games in back to back seasons with not that many players on the roster,. lebron made his teamates a lot better  !!!   one playoff series does not make or break his career fella.


yeah ur right one series doesnt make or break ur career but with lebron we get to have this debate every year. you can read my thread on it again next year and the year after . if he makes everyone on his team better then they are all in trouble when he leaves they will have to play over seas. winning games in the regular season means nothing if u choke in the playoffs (66,,61, choke,choke) oh yeah but they did win homecourt through out
 
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Posted: #95

Simple, No team can win the title with just one player. However, I have no doubt Jordan would have won a title with the current Cavs roster. I get sick of people comparing Lebron to Jordan (or Kobe). They can't be compared. Jordan was far better player in his prime than Lebron. It all comes from heart. How long has Lebron being in the league? How come he still cant make FTs when it matters? MJ is the ultimate competitor and Lebron is nowhere close to it. MJ made his teams mates better and that is the main problem. Lebron is not making his team mates better. Don't get me wrong, Lebron is a great player, but should not be compared to MJ or Kobe. They are proven winners. What other players would you put in with James? Give me break. This one is with James, he failed as a player, competitor and a leader.
 
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Posted: #96
Big negative to both.   Like most of the guys previously mentioned,Jordan got Pip (50 best player)  and Rodman, likewise Kobe's tandem with Shaq and later on with Pau,  before the two of them obtained the coveted NBA Championship Trophy.
 
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Posted: #97
MJ 4 sure 
 
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Posted: #98

Quote Originally Posted by lightsout2184:



its not about assist. just mjs presence made people around him play above their ability. Anyone who has played sports knows a great team captain gets more from their players. of coarse he should get a lot of assist he always has the ball. if he makes the guys better around him then why do they still all suck. they would put up the same numbers on any team.  also kidd sucks lol. he is so slow and old. in his prime he was good.

The reason why Cavs consistently choke in the playoffs....to me....is due to the fact that their past teams have not been built to be a Champion.  Danny Ferry thinks he has put it together...but once LBJ gets out there with these guys in the PLAYOFFS, when everyone's intensity is at a high level....then they are exposed.  Exposed for being undersixed (west and williams).....exposed for being slow (Ilgaskas)  exposed for being not that good (Jammison & the rest of the Cavs team)...etc..etc..etc..

If I was LBJ I would go play with D Wade or Derrick Rose (Another true - legit All Star) and then everyone can really see what he is all about, once he is side by side with another stud in the league.

MJ had Pippen

Kobe had Shaq (now Gasol)

Even the celtics is comprised of all stars (Garnett, Pierce, and now Rondo and Ray Allen was an All Star)

Who on this Cavs team is on that kinda level of consistent offense and defense?

Answer:  Noone.

 
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Posted: #99
good thoughts in this thread
 
 
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Posted: #100

an interesting fact, Jordan won every series that the bulls had home court advantage in.

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