Posted:
#26
5 Superbowl wins is Extremely hard to get.... Ben and the Steeler Starting Lines have to be Injury Free if they want to reach that Goal...
0
Roethlisberger: "My goal is to win 5 Super Bowls."
Posted:
#27
Quote Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:
I guess I have to bring reality to the table as usual.
2008 Ben was ranked 24th in QB rating with a stellar 80 rating. He ranks 17th in yards per attempt, 21st in completion percentage. He ranked 4th in INT's thrown, 15th in TDs thrown. I wont get into sacks because he scrambles more and sacks is an inaccurate stat, but that said he was second in sacks and given his INT to TD ratio and his INT to completion percentage, he is making bad decisions on a regular basis.
He had ONE good year, two below average years and two which were also above average.
Do something for me, in the 5 years that Ben has been in the league, how did the Stillers rank defensively in those years? A GREAT defense covers up offensive mistakes and he hasnt been required to carry a team like others..say Brees or Warner or Rivers.
2007 helped his TD/INT stats but outside that year he is very average and I would be shocked if he has another 2007 for the rest of his career.
Ben in the beneficiary of a great team, a great defense, a great offensive line, he is average per his abilities and how he would fare on a bad team.
101 TDS & 69 INTS for the first 5 years for a NFL QB is not average ... Your wrong sorry... You also need some schooling in the O-line dept.. Their line sucked last year.. When he had a good line he was 31 TDs & 11 INTs..,,, AVERAGE I guess I have to bring reality to the table as usual.
2008 Ben was ranked 24th in QB rating with a stellar 80 rating. He ranks 17th in yards per attempt, 21st in completion percentage. He ranked 4th in INT's thrown, 15th in TDs thrown. I wont get into sacks because he scrambles more and sacks is an inaccurate stat, but that said he was second in sacks and given his INT to TD ratio and his INT to completion percentage, he is making bad decisions on a regular basis.
He had ONE good year, two below average years and two which were also above average.
Do something for me, in the 5 years that Ben has been in the league, how did the Stillers rank defensively in those years? A GREAT defense covers up offensive mistakes and he hasnt been required to carry a team like others..say Brees or Warner or Rivers.
2007 helped his TD/INT stats but outside that year he is very average and I would be shocked if he has another 2007 for the rest of his career.
Ben in the beneficiary of a great team, a great defense, a great offensive line, he is average per his abilities and how he would fare on a bad team.
.... 101 tds vs 69 ints... Do your homework..
.
0
Posted:
#28
Quote Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:
I guess I have to bring reality to the table as usual.
2008 Ben was ranked 24th in QB rating with a stellar 80 rating. He ranks 17th in yards per attempt, 21st in completion percentage. He ranked 4th in INT's thrown, 15th in TDs thrown. I wont get into sacks because he scrambles more and sacks is an inaccurate stat, but that said he was second in sacks and given his INT to TD ratio and his INT to completion percentage, he is making bad decisions on a regular basis.
He had ONE good year, two below average years and two which were also above average.
Do something for me, in the 5 years that Ben has been in the league, how did the Stillers rank defensively in those years? A GREAT defense covers up offensive mistakes and he hasnt been required to carry a team like others..say Brees or Warner or Rivers.
2007 helped his TD/INT stats but outside that year he is very average and I would be shocked if he has another 2007 for the rest of his career.
Ben in the beneficiary of a great team, a great defense, a great offensive line, he is average per his abilities and how he would fare on a bad team.
Two other "average" QBs after their first 5 years..Tom Brady 97 TDS & 52 INTS... Peyton Manning 111 TDS & 81 INTS I guess I have to bring reality to the table as usual.
2008 Ben was ranked 24th in QB rating with a stellar 80 rating. He ranks 17th in yards per attempt, 21st in completion percentage. He ranked 4th in INT's thrown, 15th in TDs thrown. I wont get into sacks because he scrambles more and sacks is an inaccurate stat, but that said he was second in sacks and given his INT to TD ratio and his INT to completion percentage, he is making bad decisions on a regular basis.
He had ONE good year, two below average years and two which were also above average.
Do something for me, in the 5 years that Ben has been in the league, how did the Stillers rank defensively in those years? A GREAT defense covers up offensive mistakes and he hasnt been required to carry a team like others..say Brees or Warner or Rivers.
2007 helped his TD/INT stats but outside that year he is very average and I would be shocked if he has another 2007 for the rest of his career.
Ben in the beneficiary of a great team, a great defense, a great offensive line, he is average per his abilities and how he would fare on a bad team.
... LOOK FAMILIAR....Plus both played for good teams and neither of them got hit by a car while riding a motorcycle ... Ben is right on course .. Lesson over.....
0
Posted:
#30
And people always bring up the comebacks statistic...
When your offense plays poorly, you fall behind
When your defense is amazing, you are kept in the game
His defense again gets the major credit for those comebacks for keeping that mediocre offense in the game.
Yes, Ben eventually scored a TD and "came back" from behind, but many times that due to the defense keeping you in the game.
wallstreet...you couldnt be more accurate.
0
Posted:
#31
I dont even like entertaining debates with people who are angry and unwilling to actually research stats.
Check out the teams which Brady and especially Manning were on in their first few years and the team that Ben inherited. It is easy to do, just go to nfl.com, find stats for past seasons, compare defenses, offenses, sacks, turnovers, things which you can compare and it is easy to see that Ben did not inherit the same teams which Brady and Manning did, thus the argument is incorrect and biased.
Ben is a game manager, he is not a great passing QB, he is big and tough to tackle, he is gritty and cocky and has many great qualities..but as a passing QB he does not have the skills of the names mentioned here, but on that team he does not NEED those skills.
It is similar to how Tomlin inherited a great team, the true sign of the quality of the individual is how they do given difficult circumstances, not inheriting the Steelers and that awesome organization.
Since 2000 the Stillers had only ONE losing season, 2003 and even with that losing season their defense was in the top 10.
Enough with the discussion, unless Dick retires or Ben moves to another team, we wont ever know if he is great on his own or not, similar to Eli, Brady or even Peyton to a degree..so congrats if they keep winning but it surely isnt due to HIM alone, rather the entire team and organization are why they win..especially the defense.
Check out the teams which Brady and especially Manning were on in their first few years and the team that Ben inherited. It is easy to do, just go to nfl.com, find stats for past seasons, compare defenses, offenses, sacks, turnovers, things which you can compare and it is easy to see that Ben did not inherit the same teams which Brady and Manning did, thus the argument is incorrect and biased.
Ben is a game manager, he is not a great passing QB, he is big and tough to tackle, he is gritty and cocky and has many great qualities..but as a passing QB he does not have the skills of the names mentioned here, but on that team he does not NEED those skills.
It is similar to how Tomlin inherited a great team, the true sign of the quality of the individual is how they do given difficult circumstances, not inheriting the Steelers and that awesome organization.
Since 2000 the Stillers had only ONE losing season, 2003 and even with that losing season their defense was in the top 10.
Enough with the discussion, unless Dick retires or Ben moves to another team, we wont ever know if he is great on his own or not, similar to Eli, Brady or even Peyton to a degree..so congrats if they keep winning but it surely isnt due to HIM alone, rather the entire team and organization are why they win..especially the defense.
0
Posted:
#32
Quote Originally Posted by samuelsosa:
And people always bring up the comebacks statistic...
When your offense plays poorly, you fall behind
When your defense is amazing, you are kept in the game
His defense again gets the major credit for those comebacks for keeping that mediocre offense in the game.
Yes, Ben eventually scored a TD and "came back" from behind, but many times that due to the defense keeping you in the game.
wallstreet...you couldnt be more accurate.
Sorry Sammy but this argument makes no sense. Peyton Manning has had many comebacks in his career. I believe he is second behind Ben in this category since '04. And how many comebacks has Brady had? Alot. How about Montana and Marino? I'm sure they had alot. And you're gonna say their defenses deserve the credit for keeping those mediocre offenses in the game?
How many times do I have to prove your statements to be idiotic?
There are many tight games in the NFL. It is a very competitive league. Good offensive teams fall behind all the time. And although I'll be the first to admit that the Steelers' offense doesn't put the fear of God into anyone, but to say the defense deserves the credit for the comebacks is just stupid. Somebody once said, "The great ones aren't always great. They're just great when they have to be." If Ben has the ball with two minutes left down by 4, the bottom line is, there's not may QB's that are better at pulling out the win. I'm not sure if there's anyone better. But that's another discussion. The argument at hand has already been won by me. Yeah if the Steelers had the 32nd ranked defense they probably wouldn't have won the SB. But if they didn't have Ben, they would have never won in '05 or '08. In '05, they never get there without Ben leading the way in the playoffs.
We've been through all this before. It's safe to say that we agree to disagree. But when Ben gets inducted in Canton, I'll be there. I live five minutes away. Every year I drive to my buddy Mike's house and meet a few friends. Then we walk to the Hall of Fame. I'm gonna watch Woodson get inducted this year. Soon Bettis will be going in. And maybe Dermonti. And Hines Ward in about 10 years. And Ben in about 15 to 20. And all these posts and arguments will be long forgotten.
0
Posted:
#33
Quote Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:
I dont even like entertaining debates with people who are angry and unwilling to actually research stats.
Check out the teams which Brady and especially Manning were on in their first few years and the team that Ben inherited. It is easy to do, just go to nfl.com, find stats for past seasons, compare defenses, offenses, sacks, turnovers, things which you can compare and it is easy to see that Ben did not inherit the same teams which Brady and Manning did, thus the argument is incorrect and biased.
Ben is a game manager, he is not a great passing QB, he is big and tough to tackle, he is gritty and cocky and has many great qualities..but as a passing QB he does not have the skills of the names mentioned here, but on that team he does not NEED those skills.
It is similar to how Tomlin inherited a great team, the true sign of the quality of the individual is how they do given difficult circumstances, not inheriting the Steelers and that awesome organization.
Since 2000 the Stillers had only ONE losing season, 2003 and even with that losing season their defense was in the top 10.
Enough with the discussion, unless Dick retires or Ben moves to another team, we wont ever know if he is great on his own or not, similar to Eli, Brady or even Peyton to a degree..so congrats if they keep winning but it surely isnt due to HIM alone, rather the entire team and organization are why they win..especially the defense.
I dont even like entertaining debates with people who are angry and unwilling to actually research stats.
Check out the teams which Brady and especially Manning were on in their first few years and the team that Ben inherited. It is easy to do, just go to nfl.com, find stats for past seasons, compare defenses, offenses, sacks, turnovers, things which you can compare and it is easy to see that Ben did not inherit the same teams which Brady and Manning did, thus the argument is incorrect and biased.
Ben is a game manager, he is not a great passing QB, he is big and tough to tackle, he is gritty and cocky and has many great qualities..but as a passing QB he does not have the skills of the names mentioned here, but on that team he does not NEED those skills.
It is similar to how Tomlin inherited a great team, the true sign of the quality of the individual is how they do given difficult circumstances, not inheriting the Steelers and that awesome organization.
Since 2000 the Stillers had only ONE losing season, 2003 and even with that losing season their defense was in the top 10.
Enough with the discussion, unless Dick retires or Ben moves to another team, we wont ever know if he is great on his own or not, similar to Eli, Brady or even Peyton to a degree..so congrats if they keep winning but it surely isnt due to HIM alone, rather the entire team and organization are why they win..especially the defense.
There's not much here I can disagree with. You've always brought good arguments to the table. But I still think you underestimate Ben. Every player has their critics...
0
Posted:
#34
Quote Originally Posted by SteelCash:
Thats where I stopped reading. The COLTS defense used to get laughed at. Thats the difference between the two. Ben played for a great defense his entire career....Peyton Manning? a couple of years....to think the defense doesnt deserve credit for a comeback is just assinine. A GOOD DEFENSE WILL KEEP YOU IN THE CAME AND KEEP THE GAME WITHIN REACH OF THAT "COMEBACK"....
Sorry Sammy but this argument makes no sense. Peyton Manning has had many comebacks in his career. I believe he is second behind Ben in this category since '04. And how many comebacks has Brady had? Alot. How about Montana and Marino? I'm sure they had alot. And you're gonna say their defenses deserve the credit for keeping those mediocre offenses in the game?
How many times do I have to prove your statements to be idiotic?
There are many tight games in the NFL. It is a very competitive league. Good offensive teams fall behind all the time. And although I'll be the first to admit that the Steelers' offense doesn't put the fear of God into anyone, but to say the defense deserves the credit for the comebacks is just stupid. Somebody once said, "The great ones aren't always great. They're just great when they have to be." If Ben has the ball with two minutes left down by 4, the bottom line is, there's not may QB's that are better at pulling out the win. I'm not sure if there's anyone better. But that's another discussion. The argument at hand has already been won by me. Yeah if the Steelers had the 32nd ranked defense they probably wouldn't have won the SB. But if they didn't have Ben, they would have never won in '05 or '08. In '05, they never get there without Ben leading the way in the playoffs.
We've been through all this before. It's safe to say that we agree to disagree. But when Ben gets inducted in Canton, I'll be there. I live five minutes away. Every year I drive to my buddy Mike's house and meet a few friends. Then we walk to the Hall of Fame. I'm gonna watch Woodson get inducted this year. Soon Bettis will be going in. And maybe Dermonti. And Hines Ward in about 10 years. And Ben in about 15 to 20. And all these posts and arguments will be long forgotten.
0
Posted:
#36
Well you're wrong again. Manning started playing in '98. The Colts D has been bad for 3 years since '98. That's it. Three. Otherwise, they've been atleast respectable. Their other rankings are 3, 8, 11, 11, 11, 15, 21, and 21 respectively.
One other thing you're wrong on. You say that the Colts D used to get laughed at, and that a good defense will keep you in the game and within reach of that comeback.
Manning has had alot of comebacks. But how's that? You say he never had the defenses to keep him in the game? But he has had the defenses. I've already proved that.
The Steelers have been ranked #1 three times in Ben's career. And they have been ranked 4 and 9. I'm not denying the Steelers D has been awesome. Sure you need a good defense to keep you in the game. But you also need a respectable offense and QB to keep you in the game. And when the offense has the ball with two minutes left, it's up to them and only them to get it done. And Ben does. And I never said the defense should get no credit. It takes a team to win. But it is assinine to make a comment like, "Ben is able to make comebacks because of his D, and otherwise he couldn't do it." We could never know that. You said his defense gets the "major credit", whatever that means. No it doesn't. When Ben has the ball in the 4th quarter and he needs to put together one or two scoring drives together to win the game, he can do it. He's done it many times. That's one of the reasons he's good. Most quarterbacks are not as good as he is in the clutch. He's proven that. And he'll keep proving it over, and over, and over.
0
Posted:
#37
Quote Originally Posted by SteelCash:
Well you're wrong again. Manning started playing in '98. The Colts D has been bad for 3 years since '98. That's it. Three. Otherwise, they've been atleast respectable. Their other rankings are 3, 8, 11, 11, 11, 15, 21, and 21 respectively.
One other thing you're wrong on. You say that the Colts D used to get laughed at, and that a good defense will keep you in the game and within reach of that comeback.
Manning has had alot of comebacks. But how's that? You say he never had the defenses to keep him in the game? But he has had the defenses. I've already proved that.
The Steelers have been ranked #1 three times in Ben's career. And they have been ranked 4 and 9. I'm not denying the Steelers D has been awesome. Sure you need a good defense to keep you in the game. But you also need a respectable offense and QB to keep you in the game. And when the offense has the ball with two minutes left, it's up to them and only them to get it done. And Ben does. And I never said the defense should get no credit. It takes a team to win. But it is assinine to make a comment like, "Ben is able to make comebacks because of his D, and otherwise he couldn't do it." We could never know that. You said his defense gets the "major credit", whatever that means. No it doesn't. When Ben has the ball in the 4th quarter and he needs to put together one or two scoring drives together to win the game, he can do it. He's done it many times. That's one of the reasons he's good. Most quarterbacks are not as good as he is in the clutch. He's proven that. And he'll keep proving it over, and over, and over.
the colts d has been bad by your standards 3 times....then 21st twice, which doesnt count as bad? hilarious. If Ben played forthe 21st worst defense in the NFL 2x his career would be MUCH different. You said Ben played for the NUMBER ONE DEFENSE IN THE NFL 3 X.....do i really need to go on? the defense has carried the steelers for years. nothing new.
0
Posted:
#39
Peyton = according to you 3 bad d years, and 2 #21 rankings....
Ben = best defense 3x, 4th best 1time
and you are really gonna sit here and tell me playing with the best defense in the ENTIRE NFL, its not easier to net a comeback? are you fucking kidding me? take off your black and yellow blinders and realize that when you PLAY FOR THE BEST DEFENSE IN THE ENTIRE NFL FOR 3 SEASONS, they will USUALLY keep you within striking distance and allow you to go 30 yards for a fg, or 50yds for a td.....its a fact. what i wouldnt pay to see avg ben on an avg team going 8-8 at best. big ben is getting quite the piggy back ride....its been going on for years.
0
Posted:
#41
Quote Originally Posted by SteelCash:
Samuelsosa just wants to talk defense ... Like the defense threw 101 TDs & 69 INTS for him.. True the defense is the cornerstone of this team .. BUT Ben still threw the ball for these stats(which for a 5 yr NFL run is well above average).. There have been alot of teams with good defenses and lousy QB's that won nothing.. No matter how you slice the pie without Ben's run in the first SB run they would not have won, he carried them the 3 games on the road to the SB.. The defnse won the SB game for them no doubt that year but leading up to it Ben was the man.. Team effort from both the offense and the defense.. True more from the defense last year but in the end Ben lead the drive vs Zona.. Best is yet to come for Ben IMO..
Yep... Ben is respectable. Which means he can be respected. And everyone in the league respects him very much. And so will the Hall of Fame.
0
Posted:
#42
That's a pretty high bar he's setting (since NO qb in history has won 5 SBs). This isn't the NBA, which is a completely fucking joke. QBs are facing faster, stronger, and quicker defenses = increases his chances of getting injured.
I don't think he gets it, especially not in this era of FA.
Still a damn good QB though
0
And maybe you're...
Posted:
#47
Quote Originally Posted by SteelCash:
That's so funny! How ridiculous is that!!
I'm glad you wasted your time finding articles for idk who
scroll down to the second list. They have him going...
huh... I just spent ten minutes and I found 8 articles mentioning Roethlisberger getting into the Hall...
That's so funny! How ridiculous is that!! but "And everyone in the league respects him very much."
is a funny statement. You know 0 players in the NFL.
I want to see where every single NFL player says
"i respect big ben" shut the fuck up.
1 fan is telling me what every single NFL player said
steelers homers dont cease to amaze me
0
Posted:
#50
Quote Originally Posted by SteelCash:
Boy did I touch a nerve!
You make one of the funniest statements in the world, and when I call you out on the jackass that you are, instead of saying, "ok ok, i got a little carried away" you call me a loser. Boy did I touch a nerve! You're a loser.
you're a real winner. Only difference between you and Ben is the #1 ranked d.
0
Hot Forum Topics
