SUUMA, I appreciate your thoughtful reports and look forward to getting your perspective on the games this season. You certainly put in the time, and give interesting info that is often overlooked by the media. Having said that, I will often differ on your picks, as before, as I am relying more on long established statistical trends that I have been able to verify in over 30 years of NFL games. I have found in my modeling that while colorful angles are fantastic and part of the entertainment value of games, the solid logic they are built on does not translate to ATS success as compared with verifiable statistical rules built on methods that while accurate often prove to be counterintuitive. So while I love your angles, and you often bring out aspects of the games we all overlook, I am far more convinced that my approach with less investment on the "reporters angle" and more on complex prediction devoid of emotion in thought is the better way to go. This method is in its infancy of being proven successful, and I have to go back to previous threads, but I'm pretty sure I was batting around 60% success ATS once I started going public with it over a good number of weeks. Anyway, just sharing my strong belief, and this takes,nothing away from your incredibly colorful reports. You need to be on ESPN soon! I will stick to my passion for the most accurate prediction possible regardless of what reason would suggest. In numbers I trust! But keep up your great reports and I will keep sharing what my numbers indicate.
Smart, I completely agree here. I have learned the hard way that in many games the matchup simply doesn't matter. I did extended research on that. For example, the psychological situation a team is in, can trump everything but it's not reflected in the spread. These situations can often be translated into statistical trends. That's why it's called "on any given Sunday". In 2015 I worked to much with fundamentals and I fell for a lot of traps last season and that won't happen again. Now my way of capping combines those four main factors:
Situational/psychological angles
Fundamentals
Public perception vs. reality -> line value
The "integrity" of the NFL
Some of these do correlate with each other. Under Pete Carroll, the Seahawks have been
outscored 0-94 during the playoffs in first halfs when they had an early
east coast start. Last year the Jets were off a close game at Foxboro,
had to travel to Oakland and missed 20 tackles during that game. The
Rams were off their home opening OT win vs. the Seahawks, had to travel
coast to coast to Washington and lost 10-24 as -4 favs. Sometimes teams
just aren't ready to play a certain game/opponent because the spot
doesn't allow their minds and bodies to prepare 100%.
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Quote Originally Posted by footballsmart:
SUUMA, I appreciate your thoughtful reports and look forward to getting your perspective on the games this season. You certainly put in the time, and give interesting info that is often overlooked by the media. Having said that, I will often differ on your picks, as before, as I am relying more on long established statistical trends that I have been able to verify in over 30 years of NFL games. I have found in my modeling that while colorful angles are fantastic and part of the entertainment value of games, the solid logic they are built on does not translate to ATS success as compared with verifiable statistical rules built on methods that while accurate often prove to be counterintuitive. So while I love your angles, and you often bring out aspects of the games we all overlook, I am far more convinced that my approach with less investment on the "reporters angle" and more on complex prediction devoid of emotion in thought is the better way to go. This method is in its infancy of being proven successful, and I have to go back to previous threads, but I'm pretty sure I was batting around 60% success ATS once I started going public with it over a good number of weeks. Anyway, just sharing my strong belief, and this takes,nothing away from your incredibly colorful reports. You need to be on ESPN soon! I will stick to my passion for the most accurate prediction possible regardless of what reason would suggest. In numbers I trust! But keep up your great reports and I will keep sharing what my numbers indicate.
Smart, I completely agree here. I have learned the hard way that in many games the matchup simply doesn't matter. I did extended research on that. For example, the psychological situation a team is in, can trump everything but it's not reflected in the spread. These situations can often be translated into statistical trends. That's why it's called "on any given Sunday". In 2015 I worked to much with fundamentals and I fell for a lot of traps last season and that won't happen again. Now my way of capping combines those four main factors:
Situational/psychological angles
Fundamentals
Public perception vs. reality -> line value
The "integrity" of the NFL
Some of these do correlate with each other. Under Pete Carroll, the Seahawks have been
outscored 0-94 during the playoffs in first halfs when they had an early
east coast start. Last year the Jets were off a close game at Foxboro,
had to travel to Oakland and missed 20 tackles during that game. The
Rams were off their home opening OT win vs. the Seahawks, had to travel
coast to coast to Washington and lost 10-24 as -4 favs. Sometimes teams
just aren't ready to play a certain game/opponent because the spot
doesn't allow their minds and bodies to prepare 100%.
Suuma mate, I think the injury of Bridgewater is no short of a disaster for Vikings. Despite not being statistically flashy last year, the drop off from Bridgewater to an old, injury prone Shaun Hill is huge and whoever they sign off the street will simply not be up to scratch with the playbook. Last year Dallas was 4-11-1 against the spread, which to me signals the loss of Romo was undersold all season long. I believe this will be the case with the Vikings, a 2 points drop in the line against the Titans is no where near enough.
If teams build an early lead the Vikings weaknesses will be a nightmare, they won't be able to play catch up football and they are not good at stopping the run.
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Suuma mate, I think the injury of Bridgewater is no short of a disaster for Vikings. Despite not being statistically flashy last year, the drop off from Bridgewater to an old, injury prone Shaun Hill is huge and whoever they sign off the street will simply not be up to scratch with the playbook. Last year Dallas was 4-11-1 against the spread, which to me signals the loss of Romo was undersold all season long. I believe this will be the case with the Vikings, a 2 points drop in the line against the Titans is no where near enough.
If teams build an early lead the Vikings weaknesses will be a nightmare, they won't be able to play catch up football and they are not good at stopping the run.
Suuma mate, I think the injury of Bridgewater is no short of a disaster for Vikings. Despite not being statistically flashy last year, the drop off from Bridgewater to an old, injury prone Shaun Hill is huge and whoever they sign off the street will simply not be up to scratch with the playbook. Last year Dallas was 4-11-1 against the spread, which to me signals the loss of Romo was undersold all season long. I believe this will be the case with the Vikings, a 2 points drop in the line against the Titans is no where near enough.
If teams build an early lead the Vikings weaknesses will be a nightmare, they won't be able to play catch up football and they are not good at stopping the run.
I do believe that as well but I think Colin Kaepernick will play QB for the Vikings this season. Based on how the offense is built, Teddy Bridgewater's impact was limited in 2015. Same goes for the new QB and I believe it's gonna be Kaepernick.
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Quote Originally Posted by simple3:
Suuma mate, I think the injury of Bridgewater is no short of a disaster for Vikings. Despite not being statistically flashy last year, the drop off from Bridgewater to an old, injury prone Shaun Hill is huge and whoever they sign off the street will simply not be up to scratch with the playbook. Last year Dallas was 4-11-1 against the spread, which to me signals the loss of Romo was undersold all season long. I believe this will be the case with the Vikings, a 2 points drop in the line against the Titans is no where near enough.
If teams build an early lead the Vikings weaknesses will be a nightmare, they won't be able to play catch up football and they are not good at stopping the run.
I do believe that as well but I think Colin Kaepernick will play QB for the Vikings this season. Based on how the offense is built, Teddy Bridgewater's impact was limited in 2015. Same goes for the new QB and I believe it's gonna be Kaepernick.
I do believe that as well but I think Colin Kaepernick will play QB for the Vikings this season. Based on how the offense is built, Teddy Bridgewater's impact was limited in 2015. Same goes for the new QB and I believe it's gonna be Kaepernick.
You're not wrong about the limitation but I still don't see how a guy off the street can fit right in, especially someone as poor/erratic as Kap. He has no chemistry with any of the Vikes which will surely lead to miscommunication, overthrows, drops, turnovers etc.
There is also the mental aspect which none of us can gauge but imo the players on this Vikings team will know there chances of winning the superbowl or even making the playoffs just took a nose dive.
Also if they do sign Kap, he's not exactly the most liked guy in America right now which could further increase the mess.
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Quote Originally Posted by suuma:
I do believe that as well but I think Colin Kaepernick will play QB for the Vikings this season. Based on how the offense is built, Teddy Bridgewater's impact was limited in 2015. Same goes for the new QB and I believe it's gonna be Kaepernick.
You're not wrong about the limitation but I still don't see how a guy off the street can fit right in, especially someone as poor/erratic as Kap. He has no chemistry with any of the Vikes which will surely lead to miscommunication, overthrows, drops, turnovers etc.
There is also the mental aspect which none of us can gauge but imo the players on this Vikings team will know there chances of winning the superbowl or even making the playoffs just took a nose dive.
Also if they do sign Kap, he's not exactly the most liked guy in America right now which could further increase the mess.
You're not wrong about the limitation but I still don't see how a guy off the street can fit right in, especially someone as poor/erratic as Kap. He has no chemistry with any of the Vikes which will surely lead to miscommunication, overthrows, drops, turnovers etc.
There is also the mental aspect which none of us can gauge but imo the players on this Vikings team will know there chances of winning the superbowl or even making the playoffs just took a nose dive.
Also if they do sign Kap, he's not exactly the most liked guy in America right now which could further increase the mess.
Kaepernick excelled in a run-first offense with play-action and easy reads. It also helps that Colin Kaepernick put up better numbers under center than when he was in shotgun. In 2014 he had a QBR of 100 when being under center and graded out as the 6th-best under center QB by PFF. This is exactly what Norv Turner can give him with the Vikes offense. Adrian Peterson is MUCH more efficient when getting carries from under center.
The other things you have mentioned about Kaep would provide great line value due to public perception.
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Quote Originally Posted by simple3:
You're not wrong about the limitation but I still don't see how a guy off the street can fit right in, especially someone as poor/erratic as Kap. He has no chemistry with any of the Vikes which will surely lead to miscommunication, overthrows, drops, turnovers etc.
There is also the mental aspect which none of us can gauge but imo the players on this Vikings team will know there chances of winning the superbowl or even making the playoffs just took a nose dive.
Also if they do sign Kap, he's not exactly the most liked guy in America right now which could further increase the mess.
Kaepernick excelled in a run-first offense with play-action and easy reads. It also helps that Colin Kaepernick put up better numbers under center than when he was in shotgun. In 2014 he had a QBR of 100 when being under center and graded out as the 6th-best under center QB by PFF. This is exactly what Norv Turner can give him with the Vikes offense. Adrian Peterson is MUCH more efficient when getting carries from under center.
The other things you have mentioned about Kaep would provide great line value due to public perception.
Fair points, we'll just have to wait and see I guess. I'd certainly be looking to fade the Vikes in the first 2-3 weeks if they did sign him. You just can't fit into it an offense without any growing pains even if it is favorable for you.
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Fair points, we'll just have to wait and see I guess. I'd certainly be looking to fade the Vikes in the first 2-3 weeks if they did sign him. You just can't fit into it an offense without any growing pains even if it is favorable for you.
Kaepernick excelled in a run-first offense with play-action and easy reads. It also helps that Colin Kaepernick put up better numbers under center than when he was in shotgun. In 2014 he had a QBR of 100 when being under center and graded out as the 6th-best under center QB by PFF. This is exactly what Norv Turner can give him with the Vikes offense. Adrian Peterson is MUCH more efficient when getting carries from under center.
The other things you have mentioned about Kaep would provide great line value due to public perception.
Those are very astute observations.
I love betting on the team with the "weaker" QB because I'm always protected by the point spread and the likelihood that the public is on the other side.
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Quote Originally Posted by suuma:
Kaepernick excelled in a run-first offense with play-action and easy reads. It also helps that Colin Kaepernick put up better numbers under center than when he was in shotgun. In 2014 he had a QBR of 100 when being under center and graded out as the 6th-best under center QB by PFF. This is exactly what Norv Turner can give him with the Vikes offense. Adrian Peterson is MUCH more efficient when getting carries from under center.
The other things you have mentioned about Kaep would provide great line value due to public perception.
Those are very astute observations.
I love betting on the team with the "weaker" QB because I'm always protected by the point spread and the likelihood that the public is on the other side.
I love betting on the team with the "weaker" QB because I'm always protected by the point spread and the likelihood that the public is on the other side.
I call gamblers fallacy.
Top 4 ats teams 2015:
Minny (OK probably not rated as the better QB most matches)
Cincy( Arguable)
Carolina (Newton loved)
Green Bay (Rodgers loved)
Bottom 4 ats teams 2015:
Tennessee: Mettenberger and rookie Mariota lol
Dallas: Weeden and Cassel lol
Miami: Tannehill
Baltimore: I can't even remember the backups name
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Quote Originally Posted by DogbiteWilliams:
Those are very astute observations.
I love betting on the team with the "weaker" QB because I'm always protected by the point spread and the likelihood that the public is on the other side.
I call gamblers fallacy.
Top 4 ats teams 2015:
Minny (OK probably not rated as the better QB most matches)
Even the 5th-best team only had a 9-7 ATS record. The Packers went 2-0 ATS in the playoffs because they were crazy undervalued after the weak offensive output during the regular season.
Both Carolina and Cincinnati were completely underrated going into the season and the Vikes had an inefficient offense. The Dolphins and Cowboys were hyped.
21 of 32 teams finished betweeen 7 and 9 ATS wins, there are just outliners to both sides.
Dallas: Tony Romo went 2-2 ATS, the backups 2-10 ATS Baltimore: Joe Flacco went 1-7 ATS, his backups went 5-2 ATS along with the comeback ATS win vs. St. Louis
It's all about the lines and its value. The Ravens backups were dogs of 3.5 to 11.5, the Cowboys backups ranged from -3.5 to 7.
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Quote Originally Posted by simple3:
I call gamblers fallacy.
Top 4 ats teams 2015:
Minny (OK probably not rated as the better QB most matches)
Even the 5th-best team only had a 9-7 ATS record. The Packers went 2-0 ATS in the playoffs because they were crazy undervalued after the weak offensive output during the regular season.
Both Carolina and Cincinnati were completely underrated going into the season and the Vikes had an inefficient offense. The Dolphins and Cowboys were hyped.
21 of 32 teams finished betweeen 7 and 9 ATS wins, there are just outliners to both sides.
Dallas: Tony Romo went 2-2 ATS, the backups 2-10 ATS Baltimore: Joe Flacco went 1-7 ATS, his backups went 5-2 ATS along with the comeback ATS win vs. St. Louis
It's all about the lines and its value. The Ravens backups were dogs of 3.5 to 11.5, the Cowboys backups ranged from -3.5 to 7.
Fair enough! Every game needs to broken down into it's indivual event. Gun to my head I'm taking the better QB every time though. I remember Dallas was a popular pick here on thanks giving day vs the Panthers, that's simply a nightmare(not just because QB I guess).
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Fair enough! Every game needs to broken down into it's indivual event. Gun to my head I'm taking the better QB every time though. I remember Dallas was a popular pick here on thanks giving day vs the Panthers, that's simply a nightmare(not just because QB I guess).
This line opened at Denver -2.5 at BM and -3 in Vegas shops as reported. This is now a 6pt-swing and this normally screams RED ALERT. Same happened with MIN/SF last year and SF won 20-3. In my opinion this is a 50/50 matchup and I am grabbing a FG with the home side. I don’t need to go in detail about X’s & O’s. This is a pure line value play. The public has been eating up the darling at a short line all summer now. I don’t get the Panthers hype. They have been over-performing on an easy schedule last year and were -4.5 favs in the Super Bowl on a neutral field. Now they are -3 and almost -3.5 favs at Mile High. This is just crazy. This is the same offense from the Super Bowl, they just get Kelvin Benjamin back. In 2014, Benjamin had the same success rate (catches on catchable passes) like Ted Ginn Jr. last year, Benjamin just saw more targets. He wasn’t that reliable receiver the media made him to. So when he is on the field, it’s just about a target shift towards him. Now after one year without playing football (which would have been important to work on his drops/technique) he has to beat the best secondary in the league – I doubt he will be that impact player early on. The Panthers aren’t a good road team. Including the SB, they finished 2015 with four straight ATS losses. The SB loser is 3-16 ATS L19 in week one. When a line moved 2+ points in prime time games, the team that benefited from the shift is 63% over the L10 years (got that trend from another capper). Waiting for another push towards +3.5, otherwise I will take +3.
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Denver Broncos +3 / +3.5
This line opened at Denver -2.5 at BM and -3 in Vegas shops as reported. This is now a 6pt-swing and this normally screams RED ALERT. Same happened with MIN/SF last year and SF won 20-3. In my opinion this is a 50/50 matchup and I am grabbing a FG with the home side. I don’t need to go in detail about X’s & O’s. This is a pure line value play. The public has been eating up the darling at a short line all summer now. I don’t get the Panthers hype. They have been over-performing on an easy schedule last year and were -4.5 favs in the Super Bowl on a neutral field. Now they are -3 and almost -3.5 favs at Mile High. This is just crazy. This is the same offense from the Super Bowl, they just get Kelvin Benjamin back. In 2014, Benjamin had the same success rate (catches on catchable passes) like Ted Ginn Jr. last year, Benjamin just saw more targets. He wasn’t that reliable receiver the media made him to. So when he is on the field, it’s just about a target shift towards him. Now after one year without playing football (which would have been important to work on his drops/technique) he has to beat the best secondary in the league – I doubt he will be that impact player early on. The Panthers aren’t a good road team. Including the SB, they finished 2015 with four straight ATS losses. The SB loser is 3-16 ATS L19 in week one. When a line moved 2+ points in prime time games, the team that benefited from the shift is 63% over the L10 years (got that trend from another capper). Waiting for another push towards +3.5, otherwise I will take +3.
On other side for sure of HOU/TX. Prob playing HOU as one of 5 plays in SC.
Chicago missing 2 of 3 or ALL 3 of their top CB right? Hopkins will eat that for lunch all day. Watt is going to play and outside of Jeffery there isn't a SINGLE PLAYER on Chicago I give an offensive advantage too over the Houston defense. Agreed on Houston OL downgrade - maybe just personally I'm a huge miller fan and all reports are he has looked shot out of a cannon during camp and he's a great receiver too out of the backfield.
Chi may be able to stop run a bit but certainly not all game, and even though Brock is a bit of an unknown, I just don't see their secondary being able to slow them down at all.
I give Houston strong advantages on offense and defense. Hate laying as many as 6 in week 1 when let's face it - we are literally ALL guessing - we have zero real dates to go on, but I'll be on HOU all the way up to that 6 number.
GL to you!
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On other side for sure of HOU/TX. Prob playing HOU as one of 5 plays in SC.
Chicago missing 2 of 3 or ALL 3 of their top CB right? Hopkins will eat that for lunch all day. Watt is going to play and outside of Jeffery there isn't a SINGLE PLAYER on Chicago I give an offensive advantage too over the Houston defense. Agreed on Houston OL downgrade - maybe just personally I'm a huge miller fan and all reports are he has looked shot out of a cannon during camp and he's a great receiver too out of the backfield.
Chi may be able to stop run a bit but certainly not all game, and even though Brock is a bit of an unknown, I just don't see their secondary being able to slow them down at all.
I give Houston strong advantages on offense and defense. Hate laying as many as 6 in week 1 when let's face it - we are literally ALL guessing - we have zero real dates to go on, but I'll be on HOU all the way up to that 6 number.
"The SB loser is 3-16 ATS L19 in week one. When a line moved 2+ points in prime time games, the team that benefited from the shift is 63% over the L10 years (got that trend from another capper)."
The one caveat I would say is that teams seeking revenge for a play-off loss often get it the following season, especially early season games.
I expect the Bears to be great on the road this year as that is head coach Fox's modus operandi throughout his career.
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Very nice.....
"The SB loser is 3-16 ATS L19 in week one. When a line moved 2+ points in prime time games, the team that benefited from the shift is 63% over the L10 years (got that trend from another capper)."
The one caveat I would say is that teams seeking revenge for a play-off loss often get it the following season, especially early season games.
I expect the Bears to be great on the road this year as that is head coach Fox's modus operandi throughout his career.
On other side for sure of HOU/TX. Prob playing HOU as one of 5 plays in SC.
Chicago missing 2 of 3 or ALL 3 of their top CB right? Hopkins will eat that for lunch all day. Watt is going to play and outside of Jeffery there isn't a SINGLE PLAYER on Chicago I give an offensive advantage too over the Houston defense. Agreed on Houston OL downgrade - maybe just personally I'm a huge miller fan and all reports are he has looked shot out of a cannon during camp and he's a great receiver too out of the backfield.
Chi may be able to stop run a bit but certainly not all game, and even though Brock is a bit of an unknown, I just don't see their secondary being able to slow them down at all.
I give Houston strong advantages on offense and defense. Hate laying as many as 6 in week 1 when let's face it - we are literally ALL guessing - we have zero real dates to go on, but I'll be on HOU all the way up to that 6 number.
GL to you!
All CBs are ready to go!
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Quote Originally Posted by JDro:
On other side for sure of HOU/TX. Prob playing HOU as one of 5 plays in SC.
Chicago missing 2 of 3 or ALL 3 of their top CB right? Hopkins will eat that for lunch all day. Watt is going to play and outside of Jeffery there isn't a SINGLE PLAYER on Chicago I give an offensive advantage too over the Houston defense. Agreed on Houston OL downgrade - maybe just personally I'm a huge miller fan and all reports are he has looked shot out of a cannon during camp and he's a great receiver too out of the backfield.
Chi may be able to stop run a bit but certainly not all game, and even though Brock is a bit of an unknown, I just don't see their secondary being able to slow them down at all.
I give Houston strong advantages on offense and defense. Hate laying as many as 6 in week 1 when let's face it - we are literally ALL guessing - we have zero real dates to go on, but I'll be on HOU all the way up to that 6 number.
I don't know how good Tracy Porter is, and I've never heard of any of their other guys. Not that the game will revolve around this matchup, but it's worth some concern.
Line's currently +6 1/2 offshore
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It doesn't sound like Kyle Fuller is ready to go for Chicago.
I don't know how good Tracy Porter is, and I've never heard of any of their other guys. Not that the game will revolve around this matchup, but it's worth some concern.
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