Notice how he hasn't responded to my facts about Jordan. How he has 1 career playoff win without Pippen. 0 MVPs, 0 Championships. And was unable to even make the playoffs with such great players as Rip Hamilton (future hall of famer) and Jerry Stackhouse (NBA scoring champ). Hell, he even had hall of famer George "Iceman" Gervin and got swept in the 1st round.
Maybe someone should create a "Jordan Fraud Appreciation" thread to show the irony of Jordan fans bashing Kobe.
Kobe is the reason the Lakers are in 1st place. Without him, they would be battling the Heat, Grizz and Clippers for the rights to draft Beasley.
Kobe = MVP
0
fuloser is just that, a LOSER.
Notice how he hasn't responded to my facts about Jordan. How he has 1 career playoff win without Pippen. 0 MVPs, 0 Championships. And was unable to even make the playoffs with such great players as Rip Hamilton (future hall of famer) and Jerry Stackhouse (NBA scoring champ). Hell, he even had hall of famer George "Iceman" Gervin and got swept in the 1st round.
Maybe someone should create a "Jordan Fraud Appreciation" thread to show the irony of Jordan fans bashing Kobe.
Kobe is the reason the Lakers are in 1st place. Without him, they would be battling the Heat, Grizz and Clippers for the rights to draft Beasley.
He's something like 7-40 with a shot to tie or win games. Shoots under 50% ft in the fourth.
Now he has gotten better this season, mainly because he has gained confidence in his fts and isn't afraid to take it to the basket instead of settling for jumpshots. But he's no where near Kobe in clutchness.
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Lebron a clutch player?
He's something like 7-40 with a shot to tie or win games. Shoots under 50% ft in the fourth.
Now he has gotten better this season, mainly because he has gained confidence in his fts and isn't afraid to take it to the basket instead of settling for jumpshots. But he's no where near Kobe in clutchness.
Notice how he hasn't responded to my facts about Jordan. How he has 1 career playoff win without Pippen. 0 MVPs, 0 Championships. And was unable to even make the playoffs with such great players as Rip Hamilton (future hall of famer) and Jerry Stackhouse (NBA scoring champ). Hell, he even had hall of famer George "Iceman" Gervin and got swept in the 1st round.
Maybe someone should create a "Jordan Fraud Appreciation" thread to show the irony of Jordan fans bashing Kobe.
Kobe is the reason the Lakers are in 1st place. Without him, they would be battling the Heat, Grizz and Clippers for the rights to draft Beasley.
Kobe = MVP
Quoted from the other thread, where I DID respond to your dumb comments.
You're comparing MJ and Kobe?
Ok; where do I begin.
5 time NBA MVP 6 time NBA FINAL MVP Defensive player of the year
Career Stats: Michael Jordan: 50% fg, 30.1 PPG, 6.2 Reb, 5.3 Assists, 2.3 steals .8 blocks
Michael Jordan is leader among guards in total career blocks. He's also second in steals of all time.
Michael Jordan had more big game shots than anyone that has ever played the game. He averaged 37 for a season, including an Oscar Robertson like 32 8 8 season in his 3rd year.
In all aspects of the game, he beats Kobe, aside from a perimeter game, which is close enough as it is. The rest easily goes to MJ; and to even try to act like Kobe has an edge over him shows ignorance and pure retardation.
I even included in Mj's averages, his years on the Wizards which you seem to love talking shit about. Remember, at over 40 years old, he dropped 50+...
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Quote Originally Posted by crustyme:
fuloser is just that, a LOSER.
Notice how he hasn't responded to my facts about Jordan. How he has 1 career playoff win without Pippen. 0 MVPs, 0 Championships. And was unable to even make the playoffs with such great players as Rip Hamilton (future hall of famer) and Jerry Stackhouse (NBA scoring champ). Hell, he even had hall of famer George "Iceman" Gervin and got swept in the 1st round.
Maybe someone should create a "Jordan Fraud Appreciation" thread to show the irony of Jordan fans bashing Kobe.
Kobe is the reason the Lakers are in 1st place. Without him, they would be battling the Heat, Grizz and Clippers for the rights to draft Beasley.
Kobe = MVP
Quoted from the other thread, where I DID respond to your dumb comments.
You're comparing MJ and Kobe?
Ok; where do I begin.
5 time NBA MVP 6 time NBA FINAL MVP Defensive player of the year
Career Stats: Michael Jordan: 50% fg, 30.1 PPG, 6.2 Reb, 5.3 Assists, 2.3 steals .8 blocks
Michael Jordan is leader among guards in total career blocks. He's also second in steals of all time.
Michael Jordan had more big game shots than anyone that has ever played the game. He averaged 37 for a season, including an Oscar Robertson like 32 8 8 season in his 3rd year.
In all aspects of the game, he beats Kobe, aside from a perimeter game, which is close enough as it is. The rest easily goes to MJ; and to even try to act like Kobe has an edge over him shows ignorance and pure retardation.
I even included in Mj's averages, his years on the Wizards which you seem to love talking shit about. Remember, at over 40 years old, he dropped 50+...
He's something like 7-40 with a shot to tie or win games. Shoots under 50% ft in the fourth.
Now he has gotten better this season, mainly because he has gained confidence in his fts and isn't afraid to take it to the basket instead of settling for jumpshots. But he's no where near Kobe in clutchness.
Let me make this easy for you.
If a player shoots and makes the most threes, at the highest % this season; we would agree that THIS SEASON, he is the better 3 pt shooter over ppl like Ray Allen and Peja. This doesn not mean for his career he is a better shooter.
Now, take it in terms of LeBron and Kobe. For his career, Kobe is a better clutch shooter of course, but this season, LeBron has stepped up his game, and is the most efficient player in the 4th quarter, in clutch situations.
https://82games.com/CSORT11.HTM
Do yourself a favor and look what name pops up on top.
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Quote Originally Posted by crustyme:
Lebron a clutch player?
He's something like 7-40 with a shot to tie or win games. Shoots under 50% ft in the fourth.
Now he has gotten better this season, mainly because he has gained confidence in his fts and isn't afraid to take it to the basket instead of settling for jumpshots. But he's no where near Kobe in clutchness.
Let me make this easy for you.
If a player shoots and makes the most threes, at the highest % this season; we would agree that THIS SEASON, he is the better 3 pt shooter over ppl like Ray Allen and Peja. This doesn not mean for his career he is a better shooter.
Now, take it in terms of LeBron and Kobe. For his career, Kobe is a better clutch shooter of course, but this season, LeBron has stepped up his game, and is the most efficient player in the 4th quarter, in clutch situations.
https://82games.com/CSORT11.HTM
Do yourself a favor and look what name pops up on top.
Lakers, it tells me that LeBron's team is garbage and you can't win every game alone. He is clearly playing like the best player in the league, 31 8 7.5 for the season; Jordan/Oscar Robertson numbers. He's closing out games, and playing defense as people said he couldnt do. What he can't do though, is win every game alone, and he needs some help; not a team that is almost last in fg% and ft%. We saw what he was capable of last year against Detroit, even when his team played like trash.
Buge i'm not denying that hes a candidate. Depending on what your take is on what exactly encompasses an MVP, then it may change. I happen to disagree that he's the sole reason that team has success, and based on ACTUAL performances this season, and not just assumptions, his team can win when he plays bad. I don't consider this MVP, and I look elsewhere for players who when they play bad, or don't play, the team can't muster a win. Cavaliers are 0-6 (in the shitty east as you guys say) without LeBron, even losing to teams like Seattle and Charlotte. He is the most efficient player when hes on the floor vs when he's on the bench, and the clutch numbers don't lie. He is the best 4th quarter player THIS SEASON (not for career, don't cry yet please), and continues to prove himself.
I'm not a Kobe hater, you guys don't understand this. He's one of my favorite players, but he gets too much credit for their success and has been "locked in" for MVP for many of you simply because he deserved it in the past and hadn't received it.
A survey from players around the league stated their they believed LeBron was MVP. This was 2 weeks ago. This is how they voted for MVP's pre 1970; by the people who actually play. He isn't the best player career wise that is currently playing, but he's been in the league 5 years vs Kobe's 12. This year, NO ONE, NOT A SINGLE PLAYER, is having a better individual season than LeBron James. His team doesn't have as much success as Kobe's (and obviously so, look at the teams) but he is playing better individual ball and on a higher level than anyone in the league.
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Lakers, it tells me that LeBron's team is garbage and you can't win every game alone. He is clearly playing like the best player in the league, 31 8 7.5 for the season; Jordan/Oscar Robertson numbers. He's closing out games, and playing defense as people said he couldnt do. What he can't do though, is win every game alone, and he needs some help; not a team that is almost last in fg% and ft%. We saw what he was capable of last year against Detroit, even when his team played like trash.
Buge i'm not denying that hes a candidate. Depending on what your take is on what exactly encompasses an MVP, then it may change. I happen to disagree that he's the sole reason that team has success, and based on ACTUAL performances this season, and not just assumptions, his team can win when he plays bad. I don't consider this MVP, and I look elsewhere for players who when they play bad, or don't play, the team can't muster a win. Cavaliers are 0-6 (in the shitty east as you guys say) without LeBron, even losing to teams like Seattle and Charlotte. He is the most efficient player when hes on the floor vs when he's on the bench, and the clutch numbers don't lie. He is the best 4th quarter player THIS SEASON (not for career, don't cry yet please), and continues to prove himself.
I'm not a Kobe hater, you guys don't understand this. He's one of my favorite players, but he gets too much credit for their success and has been "locked in" for MVP for many of you simply because he deserved it in the past and hadn't received it.
A survey from players around the league stated their they believed LeBron was MVP. This was 2 weeks ago. This is how they voted for MVP's pre 1970; by the people who actually play. He isn't the best player career wise that is currently playing, but he's been in the league 5 years vs Kobe's 12. This year, NO ONE, NOT A SINGLE PLAYER, is having a better individual season than LeBron James. His team doesn't have as much success as Kobe's (and obviously so, look at the teams) but he is playing better individual ball and on a higher level than anyone in the league.
How many times has Jordan advanced past 1st rd of playoffs without Pippen?
How many times has he led the Wiz to the playoffs in the weak East with a future Hall of Famer in Rip Hamilton and NBA scoring champ in Jerry Stackhouse?
How many career playoff wins does Jordan have without Pippen?
Being 40 is an excuse? He was still a top 10 player at 40! The fact that the Wiz were a complete failure during those two seasons is HIS fault. He built that team as their GM. He made the draft picks (drafting Kwame Brown #1 overall ). He signed the free agents. Ironic that the Wiz started making the playoffs only after firing his ass.
But the biggest irony of all is Jordan fans bashing Kobe for being supposedly a statswhore and not making the Lakers any better. Yet Jordan, the greatest player of all time, was no better, actually much worse, when he didn't have a hall of fame sidekick. I mean it's not like he had no help: Paxson, Oakley, and even "Iceman" Gervin. And was swept out of the 1st rd almost every year.
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I see that you're ignoring my questions here too.
How many MVPs does Jordan have without Pippen?
How many TITLES does Jordan have without Pippen?
How many times has Jordan advanced past 1st rd of playoffs without Pippen?
How many times has he led the Wiz to the playoffs in the weak East with a future Hall of Famer in Rip Hamilton and NBA scoring champ in Jerry Stackhouse?
How many career playoff wins does Jordan have without Pippen?
Being 40 is an excuse? He was still a top 10 player at 40! The fact that the Wiz were a complete failure during those two seasons is HIS fault. He built that team as their GM. He made the draft picks (drafting Kwame Brown #1 overall ). He signed the free agents. Ironic that the Wiz started making the playoffs only after firing his ass.
But the biggest irony of all is Jordan fans bashing Kobe for being supposedly a statswhore and not making the Lakers any better. Yet Jordan, the greatest player of all time, was no better, actually much worse, when he didn't have a hall of fame sidekick. I mean it's not like he had no help: Paxson, Oakley, and even "Iceman" Gervin. And was swept out of the 1st rd almost every year.
The credit needs to be given to the WHOLE lakers team, not just Kobe.
WHO here is NOT crediting the whole team??? Certainly not me and I don't see where anyone else is saying it's ALL Kobe...
Kobe is great and we're giving credit where credit is due. The Lakers as a TEAM have pulled together as team through plenty of adversity (this season) and dealt with it in tremendous fashion.
I think in this regard you've got it all wrong...
Lamar for one has been BALLIN' lately, really stepped up his game! (see dynamite140's thread) D-Fish brings great leadership and big shots when the team needs it. Turiaf really elevates his defense and picks up big rebounds in key moments. Sasha "The Machine" Vujacic has been deadly from the outside as has Vladimir Radmanovic (who looked like Vlade Divac in the throwback jerseys last night). Farmar and Walton play their roles nicely as well. It is a TEAM effort....LED BY KOBE!
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Quote Originally Posted by fuloser:
The credit needs to be given to the WHOLE lakers team, not just Kobe.
WHO here is NOT crediting the whole team??? Certainly not me and I don't see where anyone else is saying it's ALL Kobe...
Kobe is great and we're giving credit where credit is due. The Lakers as a TEAM have pulled together as team through plenty of adversity (this season) and dealt with it in tremendous fashion.
I think in this regard you've got it all wrong...
Lamar for one has been BALLIN' lately, really stepped up his game! (see dynamite140's thread) D-Fish brings great leadership and big shots when the team needs it. Turiaf really elevates his defense and picks up big rebounds in key moments. Sasha "The Machine" Vujacic has been deadly from the outside as has Vladimir Radmanovic (who looked like Vlade Divac in the throwback jerseys last night). Farmar and Walton play their roles nicely as well. It is a TEAM effort....LED BY KOBE!
How many times has Jordan advanced past 1st rd of playoffs without Pippen?
How many times has he led the Wiz to the playoffs in the weak East with a future Hall of Famer in Rip Hamilton and NBA scoring champ in Jerry Stackhouse?
How many career playoff wins does Jordan have without Pippen?
Being 40 is an excuse? He was still a top 10 player at 40! The fact that the Wiz were a complete failure during those two seasons is HIS fault. He built that team as their GM. He made the draft picks (drafting Kwame Brown #1 overall ). He signed the free agents. Ironic that the Wiz started making the playoffs only after firing his ass.
But the biggest irony of all is Jordan fans bashing Kobe for being supposedly a statswhore and not making the Lakers any better. Yet Jordan, the greatest player of all time, was no better, actually much worse, when he didn't have a hall of fame sidekick. I mean it's not like he had no help: Paxson, Oakley, and even "Iceman" Gervin. And was swept out of the 1st rd almost every year.
Would you like to compare the league back then to now, especially the Eastern Conference?
Jordan got relatively early in his career. Remind me, what happened when Jordan retired; didn't he come back and win three rings?
Of course he had help, but you can't win a ring without a team. Pippen is maybe the most overrated player of all time; but keep in mind Jordan's accomplishments.
How many times has Kobe went past the first round without Shaq? Has he even made it past 7th seed?
Regardless of your obsession with Pippen being the only reason Jordan won; keep in mind also how Jordan performed year in year out. He STILL had better averages than Kobe despite his second comeback to the Wizards. If he didn't play for the Wizards, he would've ended up shooting over 50% for his career.
Jordan is the greatest guard defender of all time. He is number 1 in blocks for a guard, and number 2 in steals ALL TIME.
Have you ever been taken seriously with this argument? Jordan performed his best at the biggest stage, when all the pressure was on the line. If you really think his play on the Wizards reflects his prime, or his career; you are sadly mistaken. When Kobe turns 40, and plays as well as Jordan did; we can try and make a comparison. Until then, go with what is; Jordan's accomplishments, being the best scorer, guard defender combination EVER and countless other things that I can make an endless list of.
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Quote Originally Posted by crustyme:
I see that you're ignoring my questions here too.
How many MVPs does Jordan have without Pippen?
How many TITLES does Jordan have without Pippen?
How many times has Jordan advanced past 1st rd of playoffs without Pippen?
How many times has he led the Wiz to the playoffs in the weak East with a future Hall of Famer in Rip Hamilton and NBA scoring champ in Jerry Stackhouse?
How many career playoff wins does Jordan have without Pippen?
Being 40 is an excuse? He was still a top 10 player at 40! The fact that the Wiz were a complete failure during those two seasons is HIS fault. He built that team as their GM. He made the draft picks (drafting Kwame Brown #1 overall ). He signed the free agents. Ironic that the Wiz started making the playoffs only after firing his ass.
But the biggest irony of all is Jordan fans bashing Kobe for being supposedly a statswhore and not making the Lakers any better. Yet Jordan, the greatest player of all time, was no better, actually much worse, when he didn't have a hall of fame sidekick. I mean it's not like he had no help: Paxson, Oakley, and even "Iceman" Gervin. And was swept out of the 1st rd almost every year.
Would you like to compare the league back then to now, especially the Eastern Conference?
Jordan got relatively early in his career. Remind me, what happened when Jordan retired; didn't he come back and win three rings?
Of course he had help, but you can't win a ring without a team. Pippen is maybe the most overrated player of all time; but keep in mind Jordan's accomplishments.
How many times has Kobe went past the first round without Shaq? Has he even made it past 7th seed?
Regardless of your obsession with Pippen being the only reason Jordan won; keep in mind also how Jordan performed year in year out. He STILL had better averages than Kobe despite his second comeback to the Wizards. If he didn't play for the Wizards, he would've ended up shooting over 50% for his career.
Jordan is the greatest guard defender of all time. He is number 1 in blocks for a guard, and number 2 in steals ALL TIME.
Have you ever been taken seriously with this argument? Jordan performed his best at the biggest stage, when all the pressure was on the line. If you really think his play on the Wizards reflects his prime, or his career; you are sadly mistaken. When Kobe turns 40, and plays as well as Jordan did; we can try and make a comparison. Until then, go with what is; Jordan's accomplishments, being the best scorer, guard defender combination EVER and countless other things that I can make an endless list of.
Michael Jordan is leader among guards in total career blocks. He's also second in steals of all time.
Michael
Jordan had more big game shots than anyone that has ever played the
game. He averaged 37 for a season, including an Oscar Robertson like 32
8 8 season in his 3rd year.
In all aspects of the game, he
beats Kobe, aside from a perimeter game, which is close enough as it
is. The rest easily goes to MJ; and to even try to act like Kobe has an
edge over him shows ignorance and pure retardation.
I even
included in Mj's averages, his years on the Wizards which you seem to
love talking shit about. Remember, at over 40 years old, he dropped
50+..."
I'm posting this again for you to see.
And i'm going to ask you a question; what has Kobe done without Shaq? I can tell you are around 17-18 years old with this mentality, and i can certainly tell you rarely watched Jordan play...the ignorance here is unreal.
Jordan beats Kobe in EVERY category aside from 3 point shooting and ft's which is way too close to call. Everything else JORDAN DOMINATES. Despite having Karl Malone, Gary Payton, and the most dominant player ever in Shaq, Lakers lost to the Pistons; this is all with Kobe on the team. Are you forgetting these things or are you that dumb?
0
"5 time NBA MVP 6 time NBA FINAL MVP Defensive player of the year
Career Stats: Michael Jordan: 50% fg, 30.1 PPG, 6.2 Reb, 5.3 Assists, 2.3 steals .8 blocks
Michael Jordan is leader among guards in total career blocks. He's also second in steals of all time.
Michael
Jordan had more big game shots than anyone that has ever played the
game. He averaged 37 for a season, including an Oscar Robertson like 32
8 8 season in his 3rd year.
In all aspects of the game, he
beats Kobe, aside from a perimeter game, which is close enough as it
is. The rest easily goes to MJ; and to even try to act like Kobe has an
edge over him shows ignorance and pure retardation.
I even
included in Mj's averages, his years on the Wizards which you seem to
love talking shit about. Remember, at over 40 years old, he dropped
50+..."
I'm posting this again for you to see.
And i'm going to ask you a question; what has Kobe done without Shaq? I can tell you are around 17-18 years old with this mentality, and i can certainly tell you rarely watched Jordan play...the ignorance here is unreal.
Jordan beats Kobe in EVERY category aside from 3 point shooting and ft's which is way too close to call. Everything else JORDAN DOMINATES. Despite having Karl Malone, Gary Payton, and the most dominant player ever in Shaq, Lakers lost to the Pistons; this is all with Kobe on the team. Are you forgetting these things or are you that dumb?
WHO here is NOT crediting the whole team??? Certainly not me and I don't see where anyone else is saying it's ALL Kobe...
Kobe is great and we're giving credit where credit is due. The Lakers as a TEAM have pulled together as team through plenty of adversity (this season) and dealt with it in tremendous fashion.
I think in this regard you've got it all wrong...
Lamar for one has been BALLIN' lately, really stepped up his game! (see dynamite140's thread) D-Fish brings great leadership and big shots when the team needs it. Turiaf really elevates his defense and picks up big rebounds in key moments. Sasha "The Machine" Vujacic has been deadly from the outside as has Vladimir Radmanovic (who looked like Vlade Divac in the throwback jerseys last night). Farmar and Walton play their roles nicely as well. It is a TEAM effort....LED BY KOBE!
I agree with everything in your post; it was people earlier in this thread, and in other ones that stated the Lakers, individually, are much worse than the Cavaliers, and Kobe is leading a garbage team as well. A statement which you also seem to disagree with as do I.
Again, I can see why Kobe is an mvp candidate, and why some might think he IS mvp; but to me, I rank Chris Paul and LeBron higher for reasons mentioned above. And as we all know, best player, and MVP are not the same thing...they SHOULD BE, but they are not. With that said, refer to what I said about LeBron's individual performance up top.
LeBron is my favorite player; followed by Kobe. I like to analyze and debate things and see things objectively. I've done NOTHING but provide coherent arguments and statistics for what I'm saying. If you guys want to cry about that, that's fine.
0
Quote Originally Posted by L8kersFan74:
WHO here is NOT crediting the whole team??? Certainly not me and I don't see where anyone else is saying it's ALL Kobe...
Kobe is great and we're giving credit where credit is due. The Lakers as a TEAM have pulled together as team through plenty of adversity (this season) and dealt with it in tremendous fashion.
I think in this regard you've got it all wrong...
Lamar for one has been BALLIN' lately, really stepped up his game! (see dynamite140's thread) D-Fish brings great leadership and big shots when the team needs it. Turiaf really elevates his defense and picks up big rebounds in key moments. Sasha "The Machine" Vujacic has been deadly from the outside as has Vladimir Radmanovic (who looked like Vlade Divac in the throwback jerseys last night). Farmar and Walton play their roles nicely as well. It is a TEAM effort....LED BY KOBE!
I agree with everything in your post; it was people earlier in this thread, and in other ones that stated the Lakers, individually, are much worse than the Cavaliers, and Kobe is leading a garbage team as well. A statement which you also seem to disagree with as do I.
Again, I can see why Kobe is an mvp candidate, and why some might think he IS mvp; but to me, I rank Chris Paul and LeBron higher for reasons mentioned above. And as we all know, best player, and MVP are not the same thing...they SHOULD BE, but they are not. With that said, refer to what I said about LeBron's individual performance up top.
LeBron is my favorite player; followed by Kobe. I like to analyze and debate things and see things objectively. I've done NOTHING but provide coherent arguments and statistics for what I'm saying. If you guys want to cry about that, that's fine.
Having BOTH Gasol and Bynum would have hurt the lakers. Teams run a smaller lineup vs offensive minded, fast paced, small teams like GS and phoenix. That's usually why players rotate a lot more in these type of games in order to matchup well with the other team's lineup.
When Bynum played last time, Odom was at PF, still a small lineup. It's not like clogging the lane would stop GS from jacking up 3's like they are known for doing. It would create a slow game for the lakers, with poor transition defense for such a fast paced team.
Oh ok, you go ahead and do that...jack up all the 3's you want!
Teams in the NBA would love you to shoot 3's all night! If that's all GS did, they would be one of the worst teams in the NBA. They do shoot a lot of 3's, but, they couple that with penetration to the hoop. That and their up-and-down style that wears teams down is what makes them somewhat successful.
0
Quote Originally Posted by fuloser:
Having BOTH Gasol and Bynum would have hurt the lakers. Teams run a smaller lineup vs offensive minded, fast paced, small teams like GS and phoenix. That's usually why players rotate a lot more in these type of games in order to matchup well with the other team's lineup.
When Bynum played last time, Odom was at PF, still a small lineup. It's not like clogging the lane would stop GS from jacking up 3's like they are known for doing. It would create a slow game for the lakers, with poor transition defense for such a fast paced team.
Oh ok, you go ahead and do that...jack up all the 3's you want!
Teams in the NBA would love you to shoot 3's all night! If that's all GS did, they would be one of the worst teams in the NBA. They do shoot a lot of 3's, but, they couple that with penetration to the hoop. That and their up-and-down style that wears teams down is what makes them somewhat successful.
I agree with everything in your post; it was people earlier in this thread, and in other ones that stated the Lakers, individually, are much worse than the Cavaliers, and Kobe is leading a garbage team as well. A statement which you also seem to disagree with as do I.
Ok, that's understandable...you have to realize this thread is over a year old now and many of us Laker fans had a lot to bitch about and did over the end of last season, the off-season, and the beginning of this before Bynum really showed progress. I think if you ask those same people NOW it would be much different.
The Lakers had Kwame Brown, who took more abuse from us than anyone...and deservedly so! Thank GOD his ass is gone! Bynum has of course matured this season, but, last season was much different. Also, guys like Vujacic, Walton, and Farmar have also shown vast improvement for which I give a lot of credit to D-Fish.
0
Quote Originally Posted by fuloser:
I agree with everything in your post; it was people earlier in this thread, and in other ones that stated the Lakers, individually, are much worse than the Cavaliers, and Kobe is leading a garbage team as well. A statement which you also seem to disagree with as do I.
Ok, that's understandable...you have to realize this thread is over a year old now and many of us Laker fans had a lot to bitch about and did over the end of last season, the off-season, and the beginning of this before Bynum really showed progress. I think if you ask those same people NOW it would be much different.
The Lakers had Kwame Brown, who took more abuse from us than anyone...and deservedly so! Thank GOD his ass is gone! Bynum has of course matured this season, but, last season was much different. Also, guys like Vujacic, Walton, and Farmar have also shown vast improvement for which I give a lot of credit to D-Fish.
If a player shoots and makes the most threes, at the highest % this season; we would agree that THIS SEASON, he is the better 3 pt shooter over ppl like Ray Allen and Peja. This doesn not mean for his career he is a better shooter.
Now, take it in terms of LeBron and Kobe. For his career, Kobe is a better clutch shooter of course, but this season, LeBron has stepped up his game, and is the most efficient player in the 4th quarter, in clutch situations.
https://82games.com/CSORT11.HTM
Do yourself a favor and look what name pops up on top.
So you think a player who has been clutch for 3/4 of a season and choked the other 4 seasons is a better clutch player than someone who has been clutch for 10 straight season? Are you actually reading what you write????
I'm beginning to think you are this hustle clown, since neither of you make any sense.
0
Quote Originally Posted by fuloser:
Let me make this easy for you.
If a player shoots and makes the most threes, at the highest % this season; we would agree that THIS SEASON, he is the better 3 pt shooter over ppl like Ray Allen and Peja. This doesn not mean for his career he is a better shooter.
Now, take it in terms of LeBron and Kobe. For his career, Kobe is a better clutch shooter of course, but this season, LeBron has stepped up his game, and is the most efficient player in the 4th quarter, in clutch situations.
https://82games.com/CSORT11.HTM
Do yourself a favor and look what name pops up on top.
So you think a player who has been clutch for 3/4 of a season and choked the other 4 seasons is a better clutch player than someone who has been clutch for 10 straight season? Are you actually reading what you write????
I'm beginning to think you are this hustle clown, since neither of you make any sense.
Would you like to compare the league back then to now, especially the Eastern Conference?
Jordan got relatively early in his career. Remind me, what happened when Jordan retired; didn't he come back and win three rings?
Of course he had help, but you can't win a ring without a team. Pippen is maybe the most overrated player of all time; but keep in mind Jordan's accomplishments.
How many times has Kobe went past the first round without Shaq? Has he even made it past 7th seed?
Regardless of your obsession with Pippen being the only reason Jordan won; keep in mind also how Jordan performed year in year out. He STILL had better averages than Kobe despite his second comeback to the Wizards. If he didn't play for the Wizards, he would've ended up shooting over 50% for his career.
Jordan is the greatest guard defender of all time. He is number 1 in blocks for a guard, and number 2 in steals ALL TIME.
Have you ever been taken seriously with this argument? Jordan performed his best at the biggest stage, when all the pressure was on the line. If you really think his play on the Wizards reflects his prime, or his career; you are sadly mistaken. When Kobe turns 40, and plays as well as Jordan did; we can try and make a comparison. Until then, go with what is; Jordan's accomplishments, being the best scorer, guard defender combination EVER and countless other things that I can make an endless list of.
Yeah, let's compare Jordan's east conference to today's.... when was the last time a 30-52 team made the playoffs in the East? '84-'85 Bulls with Jordan. 'nuff said.
Pippen overrated? When Jordan retired, who led the Bulls past the 1st rd of the playoffs, something Jordan himself could never do without Pippen? Go watch the '91 Finals between the Lakers-Bulls and tell me Jordan won it by himself. Even he'll admit it was Pippen's shutdown defense on Magic and Paxson's clutch shooting that won it.
Jordan without Pippen: 40% win percentage, 1 career playoff win, 0 MVP, 0 Title, 3 first rd exits and 2 non-playoffs. DEAL WITH IT.
You speak like Kobe's career is over? He's only 29 and has at least 7 prime years left. Most of Jordan's accomplishments happened after 30.
0
Quote Originally Posted by fuloser:
Would you like to compare the league back then to now, especially the Eastern Conference?
Jordan got relatively early in his career. Remind me, what happened when Jordan retired; didn't he come back and win three rings?
Of course he had help, but you can't win a ring without a team. Pippen is maybe the most overrated player of all time; but keep in mind Jordan's accomplishments.
How many times has Kobe went past the first round without Shaq? Has he even made it past 7th seed?
Regardless of your obsession with Pippen being the only reason Jordan won; keep in mind also how Jordan performed year in year out. He STILL had better averages than Kobe despite his second comeback to the Wizards. If he didn't play for the Wizards, he would've ended up shooting over 50% for his career.
Jordan is the greatest guard defender of all time. He is number 1 in blocks for a guard, and number 2 in steals ALL TIME.
Have you ever been taken seriously with this argument? Jordan performed his best at the biggest stage, when all the pressure was on the line. If you really think his play on the Wizards reflects his prime, or his career; you are sadly mistaken. When Kobe turns 40, and plays as well as Jordan did; we can try and make a comparison. Until then, go with what is; Jordan's accomplishments, being the best scorer, guard defender combination EVER and countless other things that I can make an endless list of.
Yeah, let's compare Jordan's east conference to today's.... when was the last time a 30-52 team made the playoffs in the East? '84-'85 Bulls with Jordan. 'nuff said.
Pippen overrated? When Jordan retired, who led the Bulls past the 1st rd of the playoffs, something Jordan himself could never do without Pippen? Go watch the '91 Finals between the Lakers-Bulls and tell me Jordan won it by himself. Even he'll admit it was Pippen's shutdown defense on Magic and Paxson's clutch shooting that won it.
Jordan without Pippen: 40% win percentage, 1 career playoff win, 0 MVP, 0 Title, 3 first rd exits and 2 non-playoffs. DEAL WITH IT.
You speak like Kobe's career is over? He's only 29 and has at least 7 prime years left. Most of Jordan's accomplishments happened after 30.
So you think a player who has been clutch for 3/4 of a season and choked the other 4 seasons is a better clutch player than someone who has been clutch for 10 straight season? Are you actually reading what you write????
I'm beginning to think you are this hustle clown, since neither of you make any sense.
I think a player who has been the most clutch this season statistically, is the most clutch player this year. I gave an example of how this logic works and why yours is retarded.
Again, if lets say Kobe scores 12 points by some odd reason next year. The players who score 20 + are clearly playing better than him THAT YEAR, but are not better for their careers. This is the LeBron argument; you are comparing 12 years vs 5. LeBron has been the most clutch player this year. Forget what he did other years; that's in the past; we are TALKING ABOUT THIS YEAR. LeBron has hit the most clutch shots, and scores the most in crunch time this year, at the highest efficiency. You are arguing with facts here.
Now lets go to your comments about Pippen.
Pippen shut down magic??? Really?
1991 Scottie "Shut Down" Magic Johnson in the 1991 NBA Finals. First: Lets disspell a myth. Scottie Pippen did not "shut down" Magic Johnson in the 1991 NBA Finals: Johnson's numbers in the 1991 NBA Finals:
Johnsons's 1991 NBA Finals Stats:
18.5ppg
7.5rpg
12.8apg
Johnson's 1990-91 Regular season stats
19.4ppg
7.0apg
12.5apg
When you consider that an assist causes your team to score 2 points, Johnson was actually more productive for his team (by a tiny fraction) while guarded by Pippen than he was in Game 1 of the 1991 NBA Finals or the 1990-91 regular season.
While Scottie deserves credit for keeping Magic from completely "going off" in the series, Pippen only slowed Johnson down in Game 2. In games 3-5 Johnson averaged 20ppg, 7.7rpg 13.7apg, all better than his regular season numbers. Pippen was a great defender but, Johnson, -like all of the game's All Time Greats do in big games- still "got his" while he was guarded by Scottie Pippen. Johnson even had 20 assists in game 5 when his two long time trusted options: James Worthy and Byron Scott, were out with injuries.
Read that; it might help you out.
You speak like Pippen is better than Jordan. Jordan was the greatest defensive guard to play the game, and the best offensive player thus far.
I never said Jordan did it by himself; he had a team, just like everyone else who won; but he was far and above the best player in the league and thus far to ever play basketball.
Jordan was exited in the first round by Larry Bird's Celtics (a dynasty) as well as Isiah Thomas' Pistons. If you'd like to compare that EAST to the EAST today, I'll gladly break it down for you.
Kobe's career is not over at all, but when he hits 40 (do you realize what 40 is? People think 30+ is old in basketball; he was 40, playing as a 2 guard, and still a top player in the league) and he can perform as well as Jordan did; come back and bump this thread.
I've never seen anyone more delusional than you; its unbelievable that you actually convinced yourself that Kobe is better than Jordan.
0
Quote Originally Posted by crustyme:
So you think a player who has been clutch for 3/4 of a season and choked the other 4 seasons is a better clutch player than someone who has been clutch for 10 straight season? Are you actually reading what you write????
I'm beginning to think you are this hustle clown, since neither of you make any sense.
I think a player who has been the most clutch this season statistically, is the most clutch player this year. I gave an example of how this logic works and why yours is retarded.
Again, if lets say Kobe scores 12 points by some odd reason next year. The players who score 20 + are clearly playing better than him THAT YEAR, but are not better for their careers. This is the LeBron argument; you are comparing 12 years vs 5. LeBron has been the most clutch player this year. Forget what he did other years; that's in the past; we are TALKING ABOUT THIS YEAR. LeBron has hit the most clutch shots, and scores the most in crunch time this year, at the highest efficiency. You are arguing with facts here.
Now lets go to your comments about Pippen.
Pippen shut down magic??? Really?
1991 Scottie "Shut Down" Magic Johnson in the 1991 NBA Finals. First: Lets disspell a myth. Scottie Pippen did not "shut down" Magic Johnson in the 1991 NBA Finals: Johnson's numbers in the 1991 NBA Finals:
Johnsons's 1991 NBA Finals Stats:
18.5ppg
7.5rpg
12.8apg
Johnson's 1990-91 Regular season stats
19.4ppg
7.0apg
12.5apg
When you consider that an assist causes your team to score 2 points, Johnson was actually more productive for his team (by a tiny fraction) while guarded by Pippen than he was in Game 1 of the 1991 NBA Finals or the 1990-91 regular season.
While Scottie deserves credit for keeping Magic from completely "going off" in the series, Pippen only slowed Johnson down in Game 2. In games 3-5 Johnson averaged 20ppg, 7.7rpg 13.7apg, all better than his regular season numbers. Pippen was a great defender but, Johnson, -like all of the game's All Time Greats do in big games- still "got his" while he was guarded by Scottie Pippen. Johnson even had 20 assists in game 5 when his two long time trusted options: James Worthy and Byron Scott, were out with injuries.
Read that; it might help you out.
You speak like Pippen is better than Jordan. Jordan was the greatest defensive guard to play the game, and the best offensive player thus far.
I never said Jordan did it by himself; he had a team, just like everyone else who won; but he was far and above the best player in the league and thus far to ever play basketball.
Jordan was exited in the first round by Larry Bird's Celtics (a dynasty) as well as Isiah Thomas' Pistons. If you'd like to compare that EAST to the EAST today, I'll gladly break it down for you.
Kobe's career is not over at all, but when he hits 40 (do you realize what 40 is? People think 30+ is old in basketball; he was 40, playing as a 2 guard, and still a top player in the league) and he can perform as well as Jordan did; come back and bump this thread.
I've never seen anyone more delusional than you; its unbelievable that you actually convinced yourself that Kobe is better than Jordan.
I think a player who has been the most clutch this season statistically, is the most clutch player this year. I gave an example of how this logic works and why yours is retarded.
Again, if lets say Kobe scores 12 points by some odd reason next year. The players who score 20 + are clearly playing better than him THAT YEAR, but are not better for their careers. This is the LeBron argument; you are comparing 12 years vs 5. LeBron has been the most clutch player this year. Forget what he did other years; that's in the past; we are TALKING ABOUT THIS YEAR. LeBron has hit the most clutch shots, and scores the most in crunch time this year, at the highest efficiency. You are arguing with facts here.
Now lets go to your comments about Pippen.
Pippen shut down magic??? Really?
1991 Scottie "Shut Down" Magic Johnson in the 1991 NBA Finals. First: Lets disspell a myth. Scottie Pippen did not "shut down" Magic Johnson in the 1991 NBA Finals: Johnson's numbers in the 1991 NBA Finals:
Johnsons's 1991 NBA Finals Stats:
18.5ppg
7.5rpg
12.8apg
Johnson's 1990-91 Regular season stats
19.4ppg
7.0apg
12.5apg
When you consider that an assist causes your team to score 2 points, Johnson was actually more productive for his team (by a tiny fraction) while guarded by Pippen than he was in Game 1 of the 1991 NBA Finals or the 1990-91 regular season.
While Scottie deserves credit for keeping Magic from completely "going off" in the series, Pippen only slowed Johnson down in Game 2. In games 3-5 Johnson averaged 20ppg, 7.7rpg 13.7apg, all better than his regular season numbers. Pippen was a great defender but, Johnson, -like all of the game's All Time Greats do in big games- still "got his" while he was guarded by Scottie Pippen. Johnson even had 20 assists in game 5 when his two long time trusted options: James Worthy and Byron Scott, were out with injuries.
Read that; it might help you out.
You speak like Pippen is better than Jordan. Jordan was the greatest defensive guard to play the game, and the best offensive player thus far.
I never said Jordan did it by himself; he had a team, just like everyone else who won; but he was far and above the best player in the league and thus far to ever play basketball.
Jordan was exited in the first round by Larry Bird's Celtics (a dynasty) as well as Isiah Thomas' Pistons. If you'd like to compare that EAST to the EAST today, I'll gladly break it down for you.
Kobe's career is not over at all, but when he hits 40 (do you realize what 40 is? People think 30+ is old in basketball; he was 40, playing as a 2 guard, and still a top player in the league) and he can perform as well as Jordan did; come back and bump this thread.
I've never seen anyone more delusional than you; its unbelievable that you actually convinced yourself that Kobe is better than Jordan.
Who cares if Lebron is clutch this season? Overall, he's NOT clutch. Being clutch 3/4 of a season out of 5 is what's referred to a statistical anomaly. Kobe has been clutch for TEN CONSECUTIVE FRIGGIN YEARS! Claiming that Lebron is more clutch than Kobe is akin to saying Bret Boone is a better slugger than A-Rod because he had more HRs one season. See how dumb you sound?????
Oh goody, you googled "Pippen is overrated" and copy/pasted a moronic dribble. The fact of the matter is, Pippen DID shut Magic down. Magic came in to the Finals blazing hot, averaging 25ppg in the playoffs! With Pippen guarding him, his production fell nearly 7ppg (26%), and his shooting % fell also!!!!! If you don't think that's shutdown defense, then you're a bigger fool than I gave you credit for.
Please explain to me how Jordan's era East was better when the Bulls were making the playoffs with such pitital records as 30-52, 38-44? The East had one great team (Celtics) and the rest were mediocre. Does one dominant team make it a great conference? At least the east of today has at least 4 dominant teams.
Never said Kobe was better than Jordan. I'm merely pointing out the delicious irony of Jordan fans claiming Kobe doesn't make the Lakers better when Jordan wasn't any better. Comparing apples to apples (removing Pippen & Shaq), Kobe's Lakers has higher winning % (53 to 40), more playoff wins (4 to 1), never was swept (Jordan was swept 2 of 3) and made the playoffs 3 out of 4 seasons (while Jordan only made 3 of 5 seasons). Neither won MVPs or Titles without their hall of fame teammates. Take it for what it's worth. But I find it very interesting.
0
Quote Originally Posted by fuloser:
I think a player who has been the most clutch this season statistically, is the most clutch player this year. I gave an example of how this logic works and why yours is retarded.
Again, if lets say Kobe scores 12 points by some odd reason next year. The players who score 20 + are clearly playing better than him THAT YEAR, but are not better for their careers. This is the LeBron argument; you are comparing 12 years vs 5. LeBron has been the most clutch player this year. Forget what he did other years; that's in the past; we are TALKING ABOUT THIS YEAR. LeBron has hit the most clutch shots, and scores the most in crunch time this year, at the highest efficiency. You are arguing with facts here.
Now lets go to your comments about Pippen.
Pippen shut down magic??? Really?
1991 Scottie "Shut Down" Magic Johnson in the 1991 NBA Finals. First: Lets disspell a myth. Scottie Pippen did not "shut down" Magic Johnson in the 1991 NBA Finals: Johnson's numbers in the 1991 NBA Finals:
Johnsons's 1991 NBA Finals Stats:
18.5ppg
7.5rpg
12.8apg
Johnson's 1990-91 Regular season stats
19.4ppg
7.0apg
12.5apg
When you consider that an assist causes your team to score 2 points, Johnson was actually more productive for his team (by a tiny fraction) while guarded by Pippen than he was in Game 1 of the 1991 NBA Finals or the 1990-91 regular season.
While Scottie deserves credit for keeping Magic from completely "going off" in the series, Pippen only slowed Johnson down in Game 2. In games 3-5 Johnson averaged 20ppg, 7.7rpg 13.7apg, all better than his regular season numbers. Pippen was a great defender but, Johnson, -like all of the game's All Time Greats do in big games- still "got his" while he was guarded by Scottie Pippen. Johnson even had 20 assists in game 5 when his two long time trusted options: James Worthy and Byron Scott, were out with injuries.
Read that; it might help you out.
You speak like Pippen is better than Jordan. Jordan was the greatest defensive guard to play the game, and the best offensive player thus far.
I never said Jordan did it by himself; he had a team, just like everyone else who won; but he was far and above the best player in the league and thus far to ever play basketball.
Jordan was exited in the first round by Larry Bird's Celtics (a dynasty) as well as Isiah Thomas' Pistons. If you'd like to compare that EAST to the EAST today, I'll gladly break it down for you.
Kobe's career is not over at all, but when he hits 40 (do you realize what 40 is? People think 30+ is old in basketball; he was 40, playing as a 2 guard, and still a top player in the league) and he can perform as well as Jordan did; come back and bump this thread.
I've never seen anyone more delusional than you; its unbelievable that you actually convinced yourself that Kobe is better than Jordan.
Who cares if Lebron is clutch this season? Overall, he's NOT clutch. Being clutch 3/4 of a season out of 5 is what's referred to a statistical anomaly. Kobe has been clutch for TEN CONSECUTIVE FRIGGIN YEARS! Claiming that Lebron is more clutch than Kobe is akin to saying Bret Boone is a better slugger than A-Rod because he had more HRs one season. See how dumb you sound?????
Oh goody, you googled "Pippen is overrated" and copy/pasted a moronic dribble. The fact of the matter is, Pippen DID shut Magic down. Magic came in to the Finals blazing hot, averaging 25ppg in the playoffs! With Pippen guarding him, his production fell nearly 7ppg (26%), and his shooting % fell also!!!!! If you don't think that's shutdown defense, then you're a bigger fool than I gave you credit for.
Please explain to me how Jordan's era East was better when the Bulls were making the playoffs with such pitital records as 30-52, 38-44? The East had one great team (Celtics) and the rest were mediocre. Does one dominant team make it a great conference? At least the east of today has at least 4 dominant teams.
Never said Kobe was better than Jordan. I'm merely pointing out the delicious irony of Jordan fans claiming Kobe doesn't make the Lakers better when Jordan wasn't any better. Comparing apples to apples (removing Pippen & Shaq), Kobe's Lakers has higher winning % (53 to 40), more playoff wins (4 to 1), never was swept (Jordan was swept 2 of 3) and made the playoffs 3 out of 4 seasons (while Jordan only made 3 of 5 seasons). Neither won MVPs or Titles without their hall of fame teammates. Take it for what it's worth. But I find it very interesting.
After another +10000000000000000000 ML loss by the Fakers.
I think it's safe to say for the SECOND consecutive season that the FADE train and hustle_man have netted the covers faithful another late season push for the guaranteed profit.
= hustle_man once again proving that the Fakers are EASIEST team to peg in the NBA.
Losing your money betting on frauds like the Fakers because you have a lust crush on Bryant.
Bashing hustle_man when he tells the idiots every year when to FADE the Fakers for EASY money
0
After another +10000000000000000000 ML loss by the Fakers.
I think it's safe to say for the SECOND consecutive season that the FADE train and hustle_man have netted the covers faithful another late season push for the guaranteed profit.
= hustle_man once again proving that the Fakers are EASIEST team to peg in the NBA.
Losing your money betting on frauds like the Fakers because you have a lust crush on Bryant.
Bashing hustle_man when he tells the idiots every year when to FADE the Fakers for EASY money
What ever happened to BetCrimes and westcoastTrojan?
Recapping the thread. hustle_man owns the Bryant fanboys for the 2nd consecutive year.
InDebtCrimes and westcoastrojan would be wasting their time trying to defend a fraud. And if they're smart (which is a stretch) they would have been cashing in on the FADE train for the 2nd consecutive season like the rest of the posters on their quest to get richer than vanzack and MrBator.
0
Quote Originally Posted by L8kersFan74:
Recapping this thread....
What ever happened to BetCrimes and westcoastTrojan?
Recapping the thread. hustle_man owns the Bryant fanboys for the 2nd consecutive year.
InDebtCrimes and westcoastrojan would be wasting their time trying to defend a fraud. And if they're smart (which is a stretch) they would have been cashing in on the FADE train for the 2nd consecutive season like the rest of the posters on their quest to get richer than vanzack and MrBator.
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). He signed the free agents. Ironic that the Wiz started making the playoffs only after firing his ass. 
= hustle_man once again proving that the Fakers are EASIEST team to peg in the NBA.
Losing your money betting on frauds like the Fakers because you have a lust crush on Bryant.
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