@Raiders22
I feel as I do because a WOMAN has all rights to make the decision about her body, anything else is of zero value for discussion. You and I and all the pro-life zealots can be against it and yet it is her choice only. I value respecting the choice of a WOMAN more than any other aspect of the conversation. Nothing is worth more on this topic than the right of a WOMAN to decide for herself regarding her body and her being the carrier.
@wallstreetcappers
You applaud this? I think that approach is worse much much worse.
So, I am not understanding why you question why I applaud this if your only reasoning is that it should stay at the Federal level because you 'think' the states were abusing it.
Obviously, my opinion is just the opposite -- I also think the Federal Government was 'abusing' it as well because nothing at all says they should be the ones to arbitrarily decide on this issue for all 50 individual states.
So, flip it around and assume the Federal Government was, in your opinion, 'abusing' it -- what would you suggest then?
I still applaud it and I have reasoning behind it.
@wallstreetcappers
Follow the science? The womans choice over her body is not the science it is the right as a woman to make a decision about her body and the pregnancy she is the 100% carrier of. Where did you come up with science and the other stuff you are trying to deflect with?
Science agrees it is a human; why are you okay with killing another human just for the woman's satisfaction?
Not a deflection -- an outright root of the question.
@Raiders22
I will have to say again that my personal position about abortion matters ZERO...I do not include my personal view because it has nothing to do with the conversation regarding minimum rights the WOMAN has as the carrier to decide what she feels is best for her body. My views have no purpose in this or any discussion because I am a MAN and I only consider what society and especially WOMEN deserve to have control and rights for decisions about their body.
There is nothing else to discuss, but ESPECIALLY my personal view on abortion...it means nothing and has no value or purpose for discussion regarding the rights of a WOMAN with her body.
@wallstreetcappers
My view is based on rights of any person living in this country, it really is not a political issue or a religious issue it is a rights issue without any purpose of intervention from religious or political agendas. There were standards, there need to be standards that are consistent and universal at a minimum. As a MAN if you do not agree with abortion then take control over your actions and stop the process using the control and rights as a MAN that you have, not dictate the rights of a woman on her body and force your views on millions of others who do not share the views you have, society in large has a different view and the punting that the court did was harmful and offensive to all women in the USA, even those who might be against abortion...they took away basic rights and standards that all women deserve even if you are against abortion personally.
At least you finally see that it is not a political issue.
My question is the same -- why does the woman's 'rights' trump the child's rights primarily; secondarily why does the woman's rights trump the man's rights later on?
The Schrodenger's Feminist view arises again here.
@Raiders22
It is not the root regarding CHOICE...the discussion is not about when does life begin, it is about the CHOICE of a woman and the RIGHTS all women deserve in any state or space in this country. You keep trying to sneak that in but our views on science and timing and personal views especially as MEN serve absolutely no purpose, it means nothing about the rights of CHOICE all women deserve. Roe/Wade was federal standards that all women deserve and that is choice and control over their body. The discussion you keep trying to change this to is of no meaning or value.
@wallstreetcappers
Why? Because the carrier has the RIGHT as a WOMAN to change her mind, a WOMAN has the right to decide even if she said otherwise and agreed, there is nothing reckless with changing your mind and deciding differently even if you said otherwise.
See the above reply to this about getting it both ways.
But also 'reckless' would be 'forgetting' to take the pill or even intentionally lying about it to obligate a man that she knew did not want a child AND they both had agreed to this.
Very reckless.
@wallstreetcappers
I feel as I do because a WOMAN has all rights to make the decision about her body, anything else is of zero value for discussion.
Why does this apply only to pregnant women? Do you feel this way about other folks having rights and being told what to do with their bodies?
@Raiders22
LOL
Yeah the change of the standard WAS political, my views on CHOICE has never been political. You love playing games trying to shape a narrative that does not exist. My only perspective is the right to choice of the carrier to her body...nothing else. You discuss politics and science and pro-life, all the tangents that have nothing to do with minimum standards of choice ANY woman deserves.
@wallstreetcappers
I will have to say again that my personal position about abortion matters ZERO...I do not include my personal view because it has nothing to do with the conversation regarding minimum rights the WOMAN has as the carrier to decide what she feels is best for her body. My views have no purpose in this or any discussion because I am a MAN and I only consider what society and especially WOMEN deserve to have control and rights for decisions about their body.
There is nothing else to discuss, but ESPECIALLY my personal view on abortion...it means nothing and has no value or purpose for discussion regarding the rights of a WOMAN with her body.
So, you do not have a strong enough personal position for it to even matter to you? Your views cannot be that strong if you just say a woman's rights are all that matter in the situation. That is a very superficial view of it.
I thought maybe you had given it a bit more thought is all.
No problem.
@Raiders22
Nothing reckless with regards to the choices WOMEN make about their body, so taking the pill or missing the pill or saying they agree or saying she is in support of having the pregnancy, nothing reckless with COMPLETELY changing course and deciding otherwise. Nothing reckless with freedom of choice. If the MAN does not start their process regarding DNA transfer then there is no pregnancy there is no abortion there is no complaint.
The only discussion point I have ever made is that women deserve the right to decide what happens with their body, that is the only point of discussion on this topic.
@wallstreetcappers
It is not the root regarding CHOICE...the discussion is not about when does life begin, it is about the CHOICE of a woman and the RIGHTS all women deserve in any state or space in this country.
No sir, it is not. The folks present it that way because it is easy to get people over on their side.
But no sophisticated debater will ever simply take that route. It is very much more nuanced than that.
@Raiders22
Nice try....my personal view on abortion means ZERO...yeah I have lots of personal opinions but it has NO place in this discussion because nothing else matters but the rights of a WOMAN to decide what happens with her body...nothing else in this discussion has ANY value. You are humorous grasping here, but no I will not discuss my personal views because the only topic is that the WOMAN has 100% control on decisions for her body, so try as you may nothing else has impact but a standard of choice for any woman any place in the USA as it was before they wrecked it.
@wallstreetcappers
LOL
Yeah the change of the standard WAS political, my views on CHOICE has never been political. You love playing games trying to shape a narrative that does not exist. My only perspective is the right to choice of the carrier to her body...nothing else. You discuss politics and science and pro-life, all the tangents that have nothing to do with minimum standards of choice ANY woman deserves.
I am saying there are many, many people that are not political that feel that way.
You also included Religion -- I am glad to see you dropped that. Because, many, many skeptics and atheists also feel that way.
It is not just about 'minimum standards' for a woman. You have to consider the child as well, or you are being deceptive on purpose.
The woman knew she might have a child when she decided to have sex.
But you are 'allowing' her an out -- while denying the man an 'out' if he is deceived.
It is not logically consistent.
Folks simply want their own selfish ways in things. Bottomline.
@Raiders22
To YOU it is, for any women in this country it is nothing else..not science not politics not religion just the basic rights to decide what a woman feels is best for her body.
We can discuss the nuances at some other time but since my view and your view and any other view especially from a MAN has no place in this discussion and has NO merit with regard to a woman and her free choice it really serves no purpose.
Try a different lure, your bait and lure approach hasnt worked, it wont work.
@wallstreetcappers
Nice try....my personal view on abortion means ZERO...yeah I have lots of personal opinions but it has NO place in this discussion because nothing else matters but the rights of a WOMAN to decide what happens with her body.
Then that is your personal view on it. And you go along with it. So you cannot straddle the fence on it and say in your home it is a no-no but everyone else should be 'forced' to see it that way and go along with it.
The question is still how you came to the conclusion that the ONLY thing that matters is the rights of the woman and NOT the child, or eventually the man.
It is leaving out too much to reach a desired position from a presupposed position.
@wallstreetcappers
To YOU it is, for any women in this country it is nothing else..not science not politics not religion just the basic rights to decide what a woman feels is best for her body.
We can discuss the nuances at some other time but since my view and your view and any other view especially from a MAN has no place in this discussion and has NO merit with regard to a woman and her free choice it really serves no purpose.
Try a different lure, your bait and lure approach hasnt worked, it wont work.
This is incorrect -- to many, many women it is as well.
You are incorrect to say that a view from a man does not matter either.
This falls straight into the False Bifurcation I mentioned earlier.
Women are allowed to have a say in what men are forced to do as well.
No--like we always say -- You cannot reason someone away from something when reason is not what took them there to start with.
@wallstreetcappers
The WOMAN is the carrier, the MAN is not...pretty much end of discussion with any other regard.
No one questions that. The question is IF it is right from all other perspectives other than pure self-satisfaction.
That does not matter to the folks that simply want what THEY want for convenience or greed.
@wallstreetcappers
But the main thing that started it was why you do not feel the States should be allowed to set it. You never answered how you would feel if the Federal was 'abusing' it.
Then at least the woman can have many other options instead of the Federal saying it is not allowed.
@Raiders22
Then at least the woman can have many other options instead of the Federal saying it is not allowed.
There is absolutely no chance any Federal abortion ban would pass the court system. It wouldn't even make it to the SCOTUS. To say anything otherwise for political gain is dumb AF. That is the season upon us though....
@kcblitzkrieg
While I agree with you, that is not the question. It is simply pointing out whether the stated stance held up critically -- it does not.
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