War in the Middle East

Any moderator does have the authority to make interpretations and decisions about 

ABUSE issues

and

OBJECTIONAL issues

as clearly stated in the TOS, subsection 11. a.

Just like almost every sport there is some degree of subjectivity in application that comes with the territory. 

We can either accept that and QUIT WHINING,  or leave.

I support WSC even if I do something to get boxed!  

@Raiders22

You have a valid point but you'd think the poster posting over and over to one self would get boring and they would need objective views. Only having the same view over and over at the top seems like few would stay as I am now bored with only the three amigo and most others already left the political forum.

Guess they get the continued participation trophy,  while others are out enjoying other things. 

@wallstreetcappers

 Thanks but you almost to a fault try and pick a fight with me, it is obvious you would try to debate a concept even though you really do understand and you do it just to try and be difficult.

As I have told you before -- only when I disagree with you.  There are a lot of things you post that I agree with --l but I rarely just cheerlead someone's post, unless it is a particularly unique point or well-thought out, etc.

It is never intended as a 'fight' -- just something I disagree with you on.

@witswits 

@witswits

 You have a valid point but you'd think the poster posting over and over to one self would get boring and they would need objective views. Only having the same view over and over at the top seems like few would stay as I am now bored with only the three amigo and most others already left the political forum. 

You may be correct that others feel that way.  It may bother me -- I just do not let it bother me enough to complain about it I guess.

talking about War ...

     Joe Tzu

  The Art of War 

    "Don't " 

@Barbarossa

Raiders 

Did anyone see the UN round table when Palestine was denied entry?  I think it was 9 in favor and 1 NO with 2 tabling the vote.

I feel bad for the legit Palestinians who want peace and want to live a normal life, and those that came to the US as a majority wanted peace and not constant bombings and terror that was in their homeland.  After the 1st Gulf War I remember hearing like a couple hundred thousand of Palestinians were kicked out of Kuwait, and it makes me think that now they may be forced to become refugees once again.  The Egyptian government back then and now will not let them reside there.  Egypt has a wall like we do with Mexico, but I am sure it is guarded way more than ours is.  So I looked it up, turns out the PLO supported Saddam and He invaded Kuwait.  So in response, nearly all Palestinians were deported in just a few months.  The Palestinians were also kicked out of Jordan, where they operated again as a state within a state.  Then they went to Lebanon where they allied themselves with Marxist and Socialist movements that were seeking to overthrow Lebanon’s conservative Maronite Christian government. The presence of thousands of Palestinian militants flooding into the country completely destabilized Lebanon and plunged the entire nation into chaos. Less than four years after the PLO was expelled from Jordan, Lebanon found itself in the middle of one of the most bloody and chaotic civil wars in Middle Eastern history from which it is never fully recovered.

Knowing this history, WHY would 9 nations vote YES and the USA be the only NO vote?

@soup-can

 if you have the chance talk to people from Israel , Jordan , Lebanon , Egypt ,Syria , Iran , People from the Gulf States ,  ask them why no one allows Palestinians as  refugees into their countries ... apart from Jordan ...  

@Barbarossa

 thanks for the response, lately I feel like my posts go ignored from the majority.  Maybe it is because they have easier targets to debate with but anywho...

I can make a good educated guess as to why no one allows Palestinians as refugees into their countries, track record.  Live and learn.  Junkies will always be junkies.  Old habits never die, so when all nations in an area of the world condemn XYZ it is for a reason.  maybe my post read more like a rhetorical question but it wasn't meant to be perceived that way.  

In the area I live there is a good size Jewish population, with many congregations and community centers.  Some hardcore Hasidic, and they just keep on their own path.  Then I drive to work and see some white dudes waiving the Palestine flag along with the Hezbollah flag.  Thankfully I do not live in NYC where they are burning American flags or living in SF where these idiot protesters close down bridges, but it has to be taken into perspective that these are the people in my community that is just brainwashed about what their news filter is feeding them.  Reasearch your own news and don't let the boob tube con you into what is really going on in the world. 

@soup-can

 A short answer to what should be a very, detailed answer in order to have full context.  But the leadership there have repeatedly undermined them by refusing a two-state solution and insisting on a 'right-to-return'.  There, for varied reasons, has never been a state of Palestine.  They have always been under an umbrella or sorts to Rome, Byzatine, Ottoman, -- then had allegiance of sorts to Syria, Britain, then Jordan.  Then when Israel is recognized and given a portion of the area they backed even further away and insisted on the 'entirety of historical Palestine'.  But they have never been an intact entity.  Their best chance was with Sharon, maybe, -- but go look into the history of how that got undermined.

But go back to 2011 when they first applied to the UN and read the reasoning on the refusal then.  It basically came down to them not really qualifying as a state under international law.

But to answer your exact question to an extent:  some nations have changed their minds over time and recognized Palestine as a 'state' or at least a sovereign people (intact with leadership, or not).

But some of those folks also know that they can vote 'YES' and not have to worry about them getting approved because they realize the USA will always veto it.  Then they can at least 'feel good' about themselves and their vote and claim they tried and were okay with it.

The USA is Israel's most ardent ally and thinks it is not in either's best interest -- especially, as long as Hamas, etc. are in charge.  That is why the USA voted 'NO'.

Of course, there are many good folks that are caught in a bad situation.  But there is also a track record and a bad group among them that really have no intent on simply wanting to be a sovereign state.

In the area I live there is a good size Jewish population, with many congregations and community centers.  Some hardcore Hasidic, and they just keep on their own 

Come on now that’s not really true ! Just look to there areas that this group this of extremely religious Jewish people have decided to set shop and reside in , Be it  

Kiryas Joel ,upstate NY , Williamsburg Ny Jackson Nj or Houston Tx and the you will see the complaint of antisemitism ! With a closer look you will see that in a short period of time these become drastically changed in many area with the use the use the RLUIPA act. This acts guild lines that have been moved far and away though politically from there original intentions have created tremendous discontent with non Hasidic citizens. You will find that to even vote no to a girls Hasidic high school will possibly 300 to 500 student on a acre of land and septic system for 10% of that number is looked at as antisemitic behavior. I can assure you the Non Hasidic folks of these communities are sick and tired of the victim card that is use in every occasion…..At least until they as the American Indian did and grudgingly move away from there home town.

@joe pockets

 I don't know how else to state the point of what I have observed in my community over the years.  I live in upstate NY.  What exactly is not true in your eyes?  There are 4 congregations all within walking distance of each other and a huge community center that offers swimming lessons and other rec stuff to all people not just of their faith.

The Hasidic stand out when they walk by, just by the way they dress.  And they do keep to themselves, so I am at a loss as to why you think my views are not true.  Have you, yourself lived or had daily interactions with such people or is this just a generalization on your thoughts and maybe underlying hatred?

I bought my first house from a man, his last name was Shapiro.  A lot of the older families on that block all went to the same House(temple/synagogue/shul).  Not sure of the correct term so it's just worded with all 3.  

If you really want to talk about antisemitic behavior just look at the New York news everyday lately.  Some of these protest groups are the same protestors from BLM and antifa who have to find another cause to protest.  Noticed I said some, not all.  

@Raiders22

 the two-state solution on paper makes sense to reasonable minds but look what just happened in NYC around Columbia U after the US voted NO in the UN bid from Palestine.

There was what looked to be 100 cops ready for the riots down in the city, and I've really never seen this amount of hatred toward any group outside of the Hatred of cops after George Floyd.  Not to turn the point of this thread around but this is the last thing Joe wants to take over the news in his re-election bid.  It will be interesting to myself how he and the other radical lawmakers put this fire out, one has to wonder how many of these protestors are from the Dearborn area

serious question here, why are these protestors at Columbia University still wearing covid masks?  Why won't anyone of these anti-J talk to fox news on camera?  Spoiler alert, I am not asking questions here....but it would be nice to hear from the other side as to the WHY 

@soup-can

person and Arab Muslims conflicting claims to the land date back a couple thousand years, possibly longest feud in the history of mankind. They sign agreements and before the sun sets it begins to disappear. It is beyond me how anyone can fail to see that there is ample blame to go around. 

@soup-can

 serious question here, why are these protestors at Columbia University still wearing covid masks?  Why won't anyone of these anti-J talk to fox news on camera?  Spoiler alert, I am not asking questions here....but it would be nice to hear from the other side as to the WHY

Same reason all of the 'TIFA's in the Summer of 2020's "mostly peaceful" protests all had their face covered....  and it is no more about covid now as it was then.... 

What will this Summer of 2024 bring to us I wonder.... 

@joe pockets

 You are correct.

And according to MAGAtts that means it's all Joe Biden's fault! 

@soup-can

 Probably the same reason why that federal judge appointee is getting shredded falsely. I would imagine those protestors fear offensive retort from conservatives and those who might not agree with their position regarding Israel. If you have to fear for your life in protesting then there is something seriously wrong with society. We are so divided and toxic towards differences it has turned into a fear for life. 

Extremists in both conservative and liberal circles have no respect for others who do not agree with them, we see it here we see it on the news and in the general media. This toxic combative environment ushered in the last 10 years or so is very very dangerous. You have to think that protestors should not fear for their lives just because they do not agree with our siding with Israel and the actions we are allowing in that region.

Oh, those poor victims fearing for their lives as they throw shit at police officers and scream death to America, death to j-e-w-s. And those poor Jan 6th protesters who never busted through capitol police but merely walked into the building after all the violence only to be sitting now in solitary confinement.

Modern day Nazi's if you ask me. Control the media, use courts to subdue opponets, and lie like hell. 

@UNIMAN

 Both sides....dont just use extreme examples, the extremes are not reality. Not all are as you are suggesting, not even a majority is as you are suggesting. I am saying that both extreme sides are behaving in toxic abusive ways. People should not fear protesting and worry about their lives for doing so.

When I heard today that the national guard may be deployed, and that Columbia students have to go online now it's certainly way out of control and the school president needs to step down.  The teachers/professors walked out to join the chaos.  This is beyond students protesting, they were very organized and it happened so quickly.  There are definitely outsiders from the likes of occupy WallStreet and the BLM movement.  Not too long ago if a student on these campuses had any racial slur or maybe used the wrong pronoun towards LGTBQ they would run them out to the street... and then this happens.  This is 100% why we have civil rights, to avoid this crap.  Imagine all the hard work just to get into a school like this and be forced to go online, 4.0 gpa won't get you there, need a 4.3 at least and then you're hand picked off the list if your lucky. 

I also read that up in Canada, there is a bill they are trying to pass about hate speech and prison time.  Well, I would think there wouldn't be schools up there like ours are right now but who knows anymore.  

I will try to stay on point with the thread, but this school protesting stemmed directly from what's going on in the middle east

People should not fear protesting, I agree IF they follow the laws. There are permits required for large gatherings and I am sure setting up camp on a university lawn and intimidating an ethnic religious sect to leave are not lawful. Neither is blocking major highways and bridges. The Left has allowed this so many times when a republican is president everybody seems to forget WE HAVE LAWS and they apply to everybody.