War in the Middle East

Discuss amongst the right and left.  

 Who is right?  Who is wrong?

Who is lying?  Who is telling the truth?

There is some major loss of life going on right now.

Great song.Hopefully one day they can all live in peace,but I really don't think that will happen any time in the foreseeable future.Certainly not in my lifetime.

The policies of the United States has great influence over the Middle East.  We are just one country though.  What should our policy be?  Should it be a Republican policy or a Democratic policy?  Should Donald Trump be the voice of reason?  Should Joe Biden be the voice of reason?

A lot of questions.

Politics without a policy is like a gun without bullets.

Why are you yammering?  What do you stand for?

Welcome to the cesspool C-Hank, I mean political forum.

Here's my take, Biden tries to play both sides of a fence no matter what it is. He goes with the flow, switching directions all the time. Creating mixed signals around the world. Nordstream II an example. He OK's it and then it's blown up. 

Here is another example; In 2014 the Left leaning publication The New Republic puts this article out; https://newrepublic.com/article/119128/unrwa-must-be-defunded-palestinian-authority-have-viable-state

The article says; "As it is, UNRWA is effectively a branch of Hamas" and stop giving money to it would be in the best interests of the Palitisians.

In 2018 Trump did just that, stopped funding UNRWA

Biden funded the UNRWA and in July of 2022 bragged the the US was the biggest contributor to the UNRWA.

Last March two independent monitoring organizations reported to Congress and the Senate

https://unwatch.org/un-teachers-call-to-murder-j-e-ws-reveals-new-report/

(Covers won't let you type the J word, even in a link, so remove the two dashes between the j, e, w to make the link work.)

What this article says is; Teachers and schools at the UN agency that runs education and social services for Palestinians regularly call to murder j-e-ws, and create teaching materials that glorify terrorism, encourage martyrdom, demonize Israelis and incite antisemitism. The material carries UNRWA’s logo and the names of its schools and lists contributing UNRWA staff. They include school principals, vice principals, educational experts and teachers, who are all signed off on the violent and antisemitic content.

Biden is funding both sides of this conflict.

Whenever one takes a position there are those happy and those who disagree. Whenever one tries to walk the fence like Biden does, no one is happy and severe damage is caused.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/muslim-arab-americans-rage-biden-michigan-israel-gaza-rcna12151

Key points from this NBC story; "Joe Biden has single-handedly alienated almost every Arab-American and Muslim American voter in Michigan,”

They say they “will not forget what President Biden did and why he lied to them,” 

Others have heard from constituents who are planning to vote Republican because they feel that at least Republicans were honest with them about their carte-blanche support for Israel, while they feel duped and used by Democrats. 

Softening up on Iran and releasing their billions on 9/11 sent all the wrong signals. Supporting the UNRWA with millions (33 million in COVID relief besides the other millions) was difinitely the wrong message. Those in the middle east and the arab citizens here feel betrayed by Biden over supporting Israel now. 

If Biden policys were consistant this would never happen.

Hank, are you really interested or just trying to get this shit out of the PB? 

You know, it's almost like this admin wants some more war.

@UNIMAN

 With due respect, you are saying it was Biden who caused this conflict?

Wasn't Biden in talks with Saudi Arabia in recognizing Israel's right to exist before Hamas attacked?

Why would Biden create war in the Middle East before solidifying an agreement between Saudi Arabia and Israel?

"If Biden policys were consistent this would never happen."

Need to pay attention to my spelling! Cannot watch Tuesday college football and spell at the same time it seems. 

@UNIMAN

 What is the GOP policy on Israel and the Gaza Strip?

@Cranky_Hank

 Why are arabs in Michigan feeling betrayed? And what coincidence this happens now. I believe that the arab world believed Biden would try to prevent Israel from counter-attacking.

And these "mixed signals" by this admin contributed, lets say, to the conflict we see now.

What is the GOP policy on Israel and the Gaza Strip?

Trying to get Saudi Arabia on board is nothing more than trying to trump Trump's Abraham accord. 

We all heard the Saudi's wouldn't answer Biden's calls. https://www.wsj.com/articles/saudi-emirati-leaders-decline-calls-with-biden-during-ukraine-crisis-11646779430

Then the fist bump. https://www.npr.org/2022/07/15/1111706564/biden-saudi-crown-prince-mbs-fist-bump-jeddah

So what do the Saudi's want when they go to the table with Joe? NATO-esque security guarantee, high-tech weapons, and a civilian nuclear program

As Vox said; Which leads to the question: Whose interests would normalization serve? As Chas Freeman, a former US ambassador to Saudi Arabia, put it, “I don’t see what the US gets, except we pay a huge price.”

The fact that the Saudi's trust Jared Kushner enough to hand him two billion to invest and some of those investments in Israel speaks volumes, IMO. 

For decades, US and many countries fund both Israel and United nations relief and work agency.  Without humanitarian aid, Palestinians would be worst off.  This aid help support healthcare clinics, schools and public services in Gaza, West bank, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon.  It doesn't go through Hamas or local government.  Since 99% of employees are local residents, they may be sympathetic to Hamas but USRWA rules forbid hiring terrorists on Israel watch list.  Inspections by US state department are reported to congress.  Accountability and transparency are monitored by Jordan.  No other United nations agency faces greater scrutiny.

I find it strange you would even ask this question unless it is to split hairs on individual GOP opinions of current events. To quote Time Magazine; 

For generations, it has been an article of faith that Republicans were the party that more staunchly supported Israel. In foreign policy circles, that part of the GOP identity was as hardwired as the slogan of “peace through strength.” To even question Israel was akin to spitting on the graves of Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher, or in recent years, questioning the GOP base’s loyalty to Donald Trump.

Even our Michigan Arab citizens know that.

Good night.

@thirdperson

 The article says; "As it is, UNRWA is effectively a branch of Hamas" and stop giving money to it would be in the best interests of the Palestinians.

Teachers and schools at the UN agency that runs education and social services for Palestinians regularly call to MURDER j-e-ws, and create teaching materials that glorify terrorism, encourage martyrdom, demonize Israelis and incite antisemitism. The material carries UNRWA’s logo and the names of its schools and lists contributing UNRWA staff. They include school principals, vice principals, educational experts and teachers, who are all signed off on the violent and antisemitic content.

Don't even try to water it down.

You're asking the wrong question.   I could easily ask what is the DEM policy.  This accomplishes nothing, and we need to think larger context... 

The real question we should be asking ourselves is why are our enemies are initiating wars under Biden's watch. 

 Russia last year, and now Iran via its proxies this year.  This stuff just doesn't happen out of thin air...   It is Biden's

"" policy  of appeasement " that conveys weakness to our enemies , and they are taking the initiative ! 

A big concern that no one is really talking about now is China.  They make up the 3rd member of this ""Axis of Evil""

AND, they have been ramping up their agression in recent weeks w Taiwan 

* why our enemies * 

Like I said earlier there really isn't an easy answer,if there is an answer at all.I think they are both culpable to a certain degree for the situation they are in.Hopefully one day they all can be at peace,but that's basically up to both of them to find the answer.

@thirdperson

The network’s of Israel described what Hamas did as “heinous acts of evil” And then come back described the many thousands of Palestinian civilians killed as “collateral damage”   I can see some one getting pissed off ! Both sides of this argument are 1# & #2 in the world rankings of lighting match’s and claim victim hood after there  house burns down! ……My feelings are they deserve each other and I’d rather my son become a Canadian citizen them have die for the likes of The Hatfields & The McCoys ! 

@MrWhatsItToYa

 Let me clarify a little better on what I meant in post #20.In no way is what hamas did to Israel to start this latest conflict the way to secure a peaceful solution to the problem.Or am I condoning what they did in anyway.Nor do I feel Israel is completely innocent in what goes down over there throughout the years,or should i say decades.It's just a mess that might never be totally resolved in a peaceful manner.And it's a shame a lot of innocent people will suffer.

I have a question not really about the original subject.I used to have a Jewish friend who would say he was half Jewish.I knew (or should I say I thought) that being Jewish meant being part of the Jewish religion.But then how could he be half Jewish,that would be like me saying I'm a half a Catholic.The way he explained it wasn't really to clear to me,it sounded more like a nationality he was describing.So my question is,is being Jewish pertaining to a religion or a nationality?

@MrWhatsItToYa

 Jewish is a religion, Israel is a country. But person, Christians and Muslims as the biblical Holy Land. And there lies the untie able knot! 

Like your shallow personal attack. I am not one to stay up late. And I answered the question in my good night post. The Michigan Arab community says it all, "we know where Repulicans stand as they are straight foward with their stance. Democrat President on the other hand betrayed them.

It seems pretty certain where Republicans stand overall. Several Repub's running for pres. all have slightly different views along Republican lines.

I made my points here.........moving on from personal attacks. Try rebutting the facts I posted instead.