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    All Forums | Pro Football

    New England at Indianapolis (11/04/2007)

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    cocknocker
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    cocknocker
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    Posted: Nov. 1, 2007 - 3:15 AM ET #76

    Well GoG, I was about to point out a few numbers but it looks as if CM Johnson already did that for me. I am a big stickler for point turn arounds. The last two times these two have butted heads in Indy the spread was -3.5 for the home team. This time the spread is suddenly +5. That's a swing of 8.5 points, a full touchdown.
     
    Now on the other side of things, New England is 8-1-1 against the spread the last 10 times playing in Indy, so there's no fear there.
     
    This particular New England team was assembled specifically for this game. The additions of the receivers were done to enhance New England's opportunities that got by them last year because of a lack of playmakers at the receiver position. maroney is one thing, but the receiver corps is unheard of in talent and abundance of targets. There is only one Bob Sanders.
     
    If New England plays the way that they are supposed to play, they will win this game. the only problem with that is Mr. Manning knows how to do one thing better than Brady. Control the clock. This game is going to be a tug of war.  The over/under of 56.5 is the highest o/u EVER POSTED IN THIS SERIES.
     
    I got burned by this information in the Dolphin game earlier this year. But lightning never strikes the same place twice. These teams are very familiar with one another. The norm this year has been the Patriots passing the ball virtually every play. This game they run to set up the pass early. Peyton does his usual game delay more in this game.  The Patriots come up with more wrinkles than the standard Colts offense and wins by a late field goal. Tease the Colts and the under, and also take the under straight.
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    Well GoG, I was about to point out a few numbers but it looks as if CM Johnson already did that for me. I am a big stickler for point turn arounds. The last two times these two have butted heads in Indy the spread was -3.5 for the home team. This time the spread is suddenly +5. That's a swing of 8.5 points, a full touchdown.
     
    Now on the other side of things, New England is 8-1-1 against the spread the last 10 times playing in Indy, so there's no fear there.
     
    This particular New England team was assembled specifically for this game. The additions of the receivers were done to enhance New England's opportunities that got by them last year because of a lack of playmakers at the receiver position. maroney is one thing, but the receiver corps is unheard of in talent and abundance of targets. There is only one Bob Sanders.
     
    If New England plays the way that they are supposed to play, they will win this game. the only problem with that is Mr. Manning knows how to do one thing better than Brady. Control the clock. This game is going to be a tug of war.  The over/under of 56.5 is the highest o/u EVER POSTED IN THIS SERIES.
     
    I got burned by this information in the Dolphin game earlier this year. But lightning never strikes the same place twice. These teams are very familiar with one another. The norm this year has been the Patriots passing the ball virtually every play. This game they run to set up the pass early. Peyton does his usual game delay more in this game.  The Patriots come up with more wrinkles than the standard Colts offense and wins by a late field goal. Tease the Colts and the under, and also take the under straight.
     
    GoG
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    Posted: Nov. 1, 2007 - 4:28 AM ET #77

    couple of quick points...
     
    tsjerome and danstyk... good points about the fact that playing the Pats hurts the defensive stats of the teams they've played... but that goes both ways... Colts are putting up 32 pts per game and moving the ball all over the field...
     
    i think it is hard to make an argument AGAINST the fact that the Jets, Bengals, Browns and Dolphins are 4 of the worst defenses in the league, regardless of who or when they play, considering they have all been ripped by teams other than the Pats... and as for the divisions, AFC East outside of NE is crappy... look at what those teams have done outside of the division, and what the AFC South teams have done outside of division... that's the best way to measure the division...
     
    very good info by CMJohnson... possibly the best so far...
     
    anyone who thinks the Pats will blowout the Colts are simply off-base...
     
    something you have to think about... take the Pats out of the equation for a second... have been watching football avidly for almost 30 years now... from what i see, the Colts are one of the 5 best teams i have seen in that period of time (worst case, top 10)... it is almost impossible to find a weakness... they are disciplined, physical, well coached, and talented all over the field... with Ugoh in the lineup they are still one of the best O-lines in the game... simply a team that can kill you in so many ways...
     
    now, with that in mind... and given the fact that the Colts home field is considered the biggest advantage in the NFL (measured by books at around a 7 point advantage)... this pointspread is saying that the NE Patriots are 12.5 points better than Indy on a neutral field...
     
    i find it hard to believe that ANY team is nearly 2 TDs better than one of the 5 best teams to play the game over the past 3 decades... even if the Pats are the greatest team to ever play the game, they would be no more than 1 TD better than a team as good as Indy (on a neutral field)...
     
    so to think that the Pats are going to easily cover this spread is delusional... they will have to play almost perfect to get it done... this is unlike anything they have faced this year... i definitely can't put my money on the Pats in this one, but might still just stay away... seems like it will come down to TO's and 1 or 2 big plays, and those can go either way... both defenses are very opportunistic...
     
    i do think the under is probably the best way to go... it is going to come down to whichever defense can get a few key stops... i expect both teams to have to settle for some FGs here and there... and the run game for both teams is critical to who will win, so both teams will focus on running the ball...
     
    my prediction... 27-20 Colts... take it for what it's worth...
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    couple of quick points...
     
    tsjerome and danstyk... good points about the fact that playing the Pats hurts the defensive stats of the teams they've played... but that goes both ways... Colts are putting up 32 pts per game and moving the ball all over the field...
     
    i think it is hard to make an argument AGAINST the fact that the Jets, Bengals, Browns and Dolphins are 4 of the worst defenses in the league, regardless of who or when they play, considering they have all been ripped by teams other than the Pats... and as for the divisions, AFC East outside of NE is crappy... look at what those teams have done outside of the division, and what the AFC South teams have done outside of division... that's the best way to measure the division...
     
    very good info by CMJohnson... possibly the best so far...
     
    anyone who thinks the Pats will blowout the Colts are simply off-base...
     
    something you have to think about... take the Pats out of the equation for a second... have been watching football avidly for almost 30 years now... from what i see, the Colts are one of the 5 best teams i have seen in that period of time (worst case, top 10)... it is almost impossible to find a weakness... they are disciplined, physical, well coached, and talented all over the field... with Ugoh in the lineup they are still one of the best O-lines in the game... simply a team that can kill you in so many ways...
     
    now, with that in mind... and given the fact that the Colts home field is considered the biggest advantage in the NFL (measured by books at around a 7 point advantage)... this pointspread is saying that the NE Patriots are 12.5 points better than Indy on a neutral field...
     
    i find it hard to believe that ANY team is nearly 2 TDs better than one of the 5 best teams to play the game over the past 3 decades... even if the Pats are the greatest team to ever play the game, they would be no more than 1 TD better than a team as good as Indy (on a neutral field)...
     
    so to think that the Pats are going to easily cover this spread is delusional... they will have to play almost perfect to get it done... this is unlike anything they have faced this year... i definitely can't put my money on the Pats in this one, but might still just stay away... seems like it will come down to TO's and 1 or 2 big plays, and those can go either way... both defenses are very opportunistic...
     
    i do think the under is probably the best way to go... it is going to come down to whichever defense can get a few key stops... i expect both teams to have to settle for some FGs here and there... and the run game for both teams is critical to who will win, so both teams will focus on running the ball...
     
    my prediction... 27-20 Colts... take it for what it's worth...
     
    GoG
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    Posted: Nov. 1, 2007 - 4:42 AM ET #78

    Quote Originally Posted by chrischase1981:

    Then why did they almost lose to the Titans and Texans? Why didn't they control the clock then.

    whoa there!  the Colts were never in danger of losing either of those games... i watched both... that Titans final score was one of the most misleading scores you will ever find... the Colts were sleep-walking through that game and still were never in danger of losing... there is more to it than the final score... they failed to cover, but losing was never a possibility...

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    Quote Originally Posted by chrischase1981:

    Then why did they almost lose to the Titans and Texans? Why didn't they control the clock then.

    whoa there!  the Colts were never in danger of losing either of those games... i watched both... that Titans final score was one of the most misleading scores you will ever find... the Colts were sleep-walking through that game and still were never in danger of losing... there is more to it than the final score... they failed to cover, but losing was never a possibility...

     
    GoG
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    Posted: Nov. 1, 2007 - 7:42 AM ET #79

    Quote Originally Posted by Mogamedogz:

    The Colts Rookie Left Tackle is going to need all the help he can get, because he is going to be overmatched BIG TIME in this one. Vrabel & Co. will eat this kid alive if the Colts leave him on an island.

     

    what rookie have you been watching?  Ugoh has been doing great on the left side... it has been when he's out they they've had problems... Ugoh has been getting recognition by the NFL live crew as a rookie of the year candidate...

    where do you get your information?  if you want to be able to really exploit that left side you need to hope Ugoh can't go... his status could be key to the outcome of this game...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mogamedogz:

    The Colts Rookie Left Tackle is going to need all the help he can get, because he is going to be overmatched BIG TIME in this one. Vrabel & Co. will eat this kid alive if the Colts leave him on an island.

     

    what rookie have you been watching?  Ugoh has been doing great on the left side... it has been when he's out they they've had problems... Ugoh has been getting recognition by the NFL live crew as a rookie of the year candidate...

    where do you get your information?  if you want to be able to really exploit that left side you need to hope Ugoh can't go... his status could be key to the outcome of this game...

     
    chrischase1981
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    Posted: Nov. 1, 2007 - 8:22 AM ET #80

    Quote Originally Posted by GoG:

    whoa there!  the Colts were never in danger of losing either of those games... i watched both... that Titans final score was one of the most misleading scores you will ever find... the Colts were sleep-walking through that game and still were never in danger of losing... there is more to it than the final score... they failed to cover, but losing was never a possibility...

     

    I watched the game too. Which allows me to know you are talking out of your ass. Titans were within one minute on the Colts 47. Bell fumbled the ball on the Colts 36, which would have been a first down. If not for the fumble the Titans would have had a couple more downs and atleast hit the FG for the win.

    You might want to rthink before you speak. They got lucky whenever the Titans turned the ball over.

    How are you possibly cruising through a game when the end result is a win by 2?

     

     

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    Quote Originally Posted by GoG:

    whoa there!  the Colts were never in danger of losing either of those games... i watched both... that Titans final score was one of the most misleading scores you will ever find... the Colts were sleep-walking through that game and still were never in danger of losing... there is more to it than the final score... they failed to cover, but losing was never a possibility...

     

    I watched the game too. Which allows me to know you are talking out of your ass. Titans were within one minute on the Colts 47. Bell fumbled the ball on the Colts 36, which would have been a first down. If not for the fumble the Titans would have had a couple more downs and atleast hit the FG for the win.

    You might want to rthink before you speak. They got lucky whenever the Titans turned the ball over.

    How are you possibly cruising through a game when the end result is a win by 2?

     

     

     
    GoG
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    Posted: Nov. 1, 2007 - 9:25 AM ET #81

    dude... i watched that game... i had Indy on the ML... i never broke a sweat... it was not a game... i don't care if it was 2 points... every time the Colts D needed to tighten up they did it with ease... the Titans didn't gain a yard on that drive...
     
    and you said they almost lost the Texans game, too... bullshit!  anytime they got within 7 the Colts immediately pushed it to 2 scores... the final score was what it was because the Texans backdoored it...
     
    you can say they almost lost, but they didn't lose, and they weren't going to lose... like i said... they were on cruise control in both of those games...
     
    as a bettor, i know from experience that the smart bet is is take advantage of the misperception of the public... you look at a 2 point win against Tennessee and say they almost lost, but then look at a 17 point win against Cleveland and say it was a blowout... but the fact is neither of those are true... all of this padding that NE has done has skewed the actual results of the games... losing to Dallas in the 2nd half, losing to Buffalo in the 2nd quarter... allowing Cleveland to march up and down the field... but the final scores make those games look worse than they were...
     
    fine by me!  load up!
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    dude... i watched that game... i had Indy on the ML... i never broke a sweat... it was not a game... i don't care if it was 2 points... every time the Colts D needed to tighten up they did it with ease... the Titans didn't gain a yard on that drive...
     
    and you said they almost lost the Texans game, too... bullshit!  anytime they got within 7 the Colts immediately pushed it to 2 scores... the final score was what it was because the Texans backdoored it...
     
    you can say they almost lost, but they didn't lose, and they weren't going to lose... like i said... they were on cruise control in both of those games...
     
    as a bettor, i know from experience that the smart bet is is take advantage of the misperception of the public... you look at a 2 point win against Tennessee and say they almost lost, but then look at a 17 point win against Cleveland and say it was a blowout... but the fact is neither of those are true... all of this padding that NE has done has skewed the actual results of the games... losing to Dallas in the 2nd half, losing to Buffalo in the 2nd quarter... allowing Cleveland to march up and down the field... but the final scores make those games look worse than they were...
     
    fine by me!  load up!
     
    Teabaggins
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    Posted: Nov. 1, 2007 - 10:47 AM ET #82

    WOW 81 posts on Thursday!!! Is this game big or what??? LOL I have no reasons to bet NE except my Mom didn't raise no fool I have won 8 weeks in row on em got to keep riding the train. My problem is I have won my last 4 bets on Indy dating back to playoff run and last weeks second half HMMMMMM quandry. Brady is playing the most perfect football I have ever seen and that date backs to 1966.  NE in a great game good luck Colt backers just as good a chance as me.
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    WOW 81 posts on Thursday!!! Is this game big or what??? LOL I have no reasons to bet NE except my Mom didn't raise no fool I have won 8 weeks in row on em got to keep riding the train. My problem is I have won my last 4 bets on Indy dating back to playoff run and last weeks second half HMMMMMM quandry. Brady is playing the most perfect football I have ever seen and that date backs to 1966.  NE in a great game good luck Colt backers just as good a chance as me.
     
    MRxKrazz
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    Posted: Nov. 1, 2007 - 10:53 AM ET #83

    u kno Im hearing all these talk about PATs aint played anybody this year, have the colts play anybody ???? Ten? plz, a Jag team without their QB ? or should we talk about those play QT they played agaist the Den team down 10 after 1st or even with this past week, down 7 to Tb. u think the Colts can pull a come back agaist the Pats this year like last year in the playoffs? I do not think sooo, the pats had a 21-3 lead, and blew it, yes Peyton was great, but again Brady didnt have all these weapons, and thomas on D is a big difference for Pats, just ask Ray lewis wat he think of AT.

    Ok, all that been said, im not sayn Colts dont have a chance

    im jus sayn if u were to bet this game Pats make the most sence, i have them @ -3, im one of those buy pts type of guy, but Pat should win by 7-10 in this game, and i wouldnt be surprise if they really try to run up the score in this game vs the colts, Pats are burnt out like that this year
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    u kno Im hearing all these talk about PATs aint played anybody this year, have the colts play anybody ???? Ten? plz, a Jag team without their QB ? or should we talk about those play QT they played agaist the Den team down 10 after 1st or even with this past week, down 7 to Tb. u think the Colts can pull a come back agaist the Pats this year like last year in the playoffs? I do not think sooo, the pats had a 21-3 lead, and blew it, yes Peyton was great, but again Brady didnt have all these weapons, and thomas on D is a big difference for Pats, just ask Ray lewis wat he think of AT.

    Ok, all that been said, im not sayn Colts dont have a chance

    im jus sayn if u were to bet this game Pats make the most sence, i have them @ -3, im one of those buy pts type of guy, but Pat should win by 7-10 in this game, and i wouldnt be surprise if they really try to run up the score in this game vs the colts, Pats are burnt out like that this year
     
    Teabaggins
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    Posted: Nov. 1, 2007 - 11:11 AM ET #84

    Quote Originally Posted by blueglass79:

    I hope Brady gets embarrassed.  F THE PATS!!

    What an intelligent post great insight
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    Quote Originally Posted by blueglass79:

    I hope Brady gets embarrassed.  F THE PATS!!

    What an intelligent post great insight
     
    cocknocker
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    Posted: Nov. 1, 2007 - 11:29 AM ET #85

    The points have been made on both sides. The Colts play tougher teams than New England. New England has not played a team anywhere near the top of the defensive standings. It's true. Their toughest test, Dallas is not worth mentioning defensively. Guys are open from the snap of the ball on crossing routes.
     
    On another note; something to look at in the future with regard to New England.
     
    Charles Barkley recently said that if teams feel that the score is being run up, do something about it. "If Tom Brady is back there in the 4th quarter throwing deep balls when his team is up by 30 points some team is going to apply old school rules and take a 15 yard penalty and a fine and a suspension by applying a late hit to him or a Randy Moss to send a message." 
     
    I liken his statement to the unwritten law in his former league that occurs when an NBA team is up by 20 in the 4th quarter with 3 or 4 minutes to go and continues heaving up 3 pointers. Isn't it ironic that a flagrant foul always follows these actions? I thought that the NFL is full of tough guys. maybe the culture of football has changed since when I was young. Deacon Jones or Ronnie Lott would not have gone for the kind of shit that New England is doing. It speaks of a total lack of respect for the opponent. i am surprised that opposing coaches are continuing to shake Belicheck's hand after the games.
     
    You kind of wonder how he would take it if the Colts are up by a certain amount and the fake a kneel down and then go deep on New England in the waning seconds of a game to score a meaningless touchdown. I'm just saying. 
     
    "If teams feel that he is running up the score, they should do something about it." Aptly said Mr. Barkley
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    The points have been made on both sides. The Colts play tougher teams than New England. New England has not played a team anywhere near the top of the defensive standings. It's true. Their toughest test, Dallas is not worth mentioning defensively. Guys are open from the snap of the ball on crossing routes.
     
    On another note; something to look at in the future with regard to New England.
     
    Charles Barkley recently said that if teams feel that the score is being run up, do something about it. "If Tom Brady is back there in the 4th quarter throwing deep balls when his team is up by 30 points some team is going to apply old school rules and take a 15 yard penalty and a fine and a suspension by applying a late hit to him or a Randy Moss to send a message." 
     
    I liken his statement to the unwritten law in his former league that occurs when an NBA team is up by 20 in the 4th quarter with 3 or 4 minutes to go and continues heaving up 3 pointers. Isn't it ironic that a flagrant foul always follows these actions? I thought that the NFL is full of tough guys. maybe the culture of football has changed since when I was young. Deacon Jones or Ronnie Lott would not have gone for the kind of shit that New England is doing. It speaks of a total lack of respect for the opponent. i am surprised that opposing coaches are continuing to shake Belicheck's hand after the games.
     
    You kind of wonder how he would take it if the Colts are up by a certain amount and the fake a kneel down and then go deep on New England in the waning seconds of a game to score a meaningless touchdown. I'm just saying. 
     
    "If teams feel that he is running up the score, they should do something about it." Aptly said Mr. Barkley
     
    danstyk
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    Posted: Nov. 1, 2007 - 11:48 AM ET #86

    Injury update -- looks like this is an "all hands on deck" type of game.  Ben Watson practiced yesterday, Kyle Brady also practiced, and apparently Ugoh is a you-go as well.

    One piece not discussed yet, perhaps under the radar is Adalius Thomas hurt his ankle a few weeks ago.  He's been playing on it, and is technically listed a ?-able, but will play.  However he has not made any of the impact plays he made in the first few weeks.  And like the WRs, he was acquired specifically to help shore up the middle of the field.  We'll see if he has gained a step on Sunday.

    NE safety Eugene Wilson did not practice, and since he DNP'd last week I would not expect him to play.
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    Injury update -- looks like this is an "all hands on deck" type of game.  Ben Watson practiced yesterday, Kyle Brady also practiced, and apparently Ugoh is a you-go as well.

    One piece not discussed yet, perhaps under the radar is Adalius Thomas hurt his ankle a few weeks ago.  He's been playing on it, and is technically listed a ?-able, but will play.  However he has not made any of the impact plays he made in the first few weeks.  And like the WRs, he was acquired specifically to help shore up the middle of the field.  We'll see if he has gained a step on Sunday.

    NE safety Eugene Wilson did not practice, and since he DNP'd last week I would not expect him to play.
     
    chrischase1981
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    Posted: Nov. 1, 2007 - 12:20 PM ET #87

    Quote Originally Posted by cocknocker:

    The points have been made on both sides. The Colts play tougher teams than New England. New England has not played a team anywhere near the top of the defensive standings. It's true. Their toughest test, Dallas is not worth mentioning defensively. Guys are open from the snap of the ball on crossing routes.
     
    On another note; something to look at in the future with regard to New England.
     
    Charles Barkley recently said that if teams feel that the score is being run up, do something about it. "If Tom Brady is back there in the 4th quarter throwing deep balls when his team is up by 30 points some team is going to apply old school rules and take a 15 yard penalty and a fine and a suspension by applying a late hit to him or a Randy Moss to send a message." 
     
    I liken his statement to the unwritten law in his former league that occurs when an NBA team is up by 20 in the 4th quarter with 3 or 4 minutes to go and continues heaving up 3 pointers. Isn't it ironic that a flagrant foul always follows these actions? I thought that the NFL is full of tough guys. maybe the culture of football has changed since when I was young. Deacon Jones or Ronnie Lott would not have gone for the kind of shit that New England is doing. It speaks of a total lack of respect for the opponent. i am surprised that opposing coaches are continuing to shake Belicheck's hand after the games.
     
    You kind of wonder how he would take it if the Colts are up by a certain amount and the fake a kneel down and then go deep on New England in the waning seconds of a game to score a meaningless touchdown. I'm just saying. 
     
    "If teams feel that he is running up the score, they should do something about it." Aptly said Mr. Barkley

     

    No offense but Barkley is one of the stupidest athletes to ever play the game. Most of the guys who have covered games with him di not like him. They are not running anything up. The offense is paid to score TD's. Fans come to see an offensive game. Not a D filled 10-7 game. The Redskins D is paid to stop the O. They didn't. All blame should be put on Redskins D for not doing their job.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cocknocker:

    The points have been made on both sides. The Colts play tougher teams than New England. New England has not played a team anywhere near the top of the defensive standings. It's true. Their toughest test, Dallas is not worth mentioning defensively. Guys are open from the snap of the ball on crossing routes.
     
    On another note; something to look at in the future with regard to New England.
     
    Charles Barkley recently said that if teams feel that the score is being run up, do something about it. "If Tom Brady is back there in the 4th quarter throwing deep balls when his team is up by 30 points some team is going to apply old school rules and take a 15 yard penalty and a fine and a suspension by applying a late hit to him or a Randy Moss to send a message." 
     
    I liken his statement to the unwritten law in his former league that occurs when an NBA team is up by 20 in the 4th quarter with 3 or 4 minutes to go and continues heaving up 3 pointers. Isn't it ironic that a flagrant foul always follows these actions? I thought that the NFL is full of tough guys. maybe the culture of football has changed since when I was young. Deacon Jones or Ronnie Lott would not have gone for the kind of shit that New England is doing. It speaks of a total lack of respect for the opponent. i am surprised that opposing coaches are continuing to shake Belicheck's hand after the games.
     
    You kind of wonder how he would take it if the Colts are up by a certain amount and the fake a kneel down and then go deep on New England in the waning seconds of a game to score a meaningless touchdown. I'm just saying. 
     
    "If teams feel that he is running up the score, they should do something about it." Aptly said Mr. Barkley

     

    No offense but Barkley is one of the stupidest athletes to ever play the game. Most of the guys who have covered games with him di not like him. They are not running anything up. The offense is paid to score TD's. Fans come to see an offensive game. Not a D filled 10-7 game. The Redskins D is paid to stop the O. They didn't. All blame should be put on Redskins D for not doing their job.

     
    revizcaino
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    Posted: Nov. 1, 2007 - 12:32 PM ET #88

    Charles Barkley is mad cause he's probably loosing lots of money betting against NE... He should just shut up and focus on his basketball....
     
    NE is in the weakest division but they played Dallas and Washington... Colts have not played any of these teams which are pretty good on the defensive side.
     
    And, NE didn't have any problems in ANY GAME... Unlike the colts that faced some problems in the first half of the Panther's game...(Thanks god they won cause I had them)
     
    I'm not saying that the Colts are not good....they are one of the best franchise this decade...but, there not better than the Pats.
     
    Pats  34
    Colts 17
     
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    Charles Barkley is mad cause he's probably loosing lots of money betting against NE... He should just shut up and focus on his basketball....
     
    NE is in the weakest division but they played Dallas and Washington... Colts have not played any of these teams which are pretty good on the defensive side.
     
    And, NE didn't have any problems in ANY GAME... Unlike the colts that faced some problems in the first half of the Panther's game...(Thanks god they won cause I had them)
     
    I'm not saying that the Colts are not good....they are one of the best franchise this decade...but, there not better than the Pats.
     
    Pats  34
    Colts 17
     
     
    danstyk
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    Posted: Nov. 1, 2007 - 12:48 PM ET #89

    Running it up? 

    I am beyond tired of this week's story angle obsessing over the Patiots running up the score on opponents.  Yes it happened in a few instances, but there is MUCHO overreaction to what really comes down to a handful of plays... and basically, one game.

    It's to the point now where people are incorporating this into their handicapping of the game.  Potential big mistake.

    I wish I could easily review all the plays that were run by the Pats in the 4th Qtr all year to demonstrate how just how often - or how little - this happened.  I do recall specifically them running the ball repeatedly late in the game more than once.  The thing is, they were not just falling on the ball -- they still had success running it. Which tells you something about their offensive line, and in some cases about the defenses they played.

    Yes they went for it on 4th down, yes they threw some passes while ahead.  Yes they are fueling the brewing jealousy into downright hatred throughout the league.

    But let's get real for a second.  Let's look at the Pats results after 3 quarters, and see what a difference a quarter made.  Below I've listed the score after 3Q, then final for each game, and the difference.

    NY Jets    28-14      38-14      +10
    SD           31-7         38-14      EVEN
    Buff          31-7         38-7        +7
    Cinci        24-10      34-13        +7
    Clev         20-3        34-17       EVEN
    Dallas      31-24      48-27         +14
    Miami      42-7         49-28        -14
    Wash      38-0         52-7         +7

    Grand total point 4th Quarter point differential in all 8 games: +31
    Average point differential over 8 games: less than 4 points.

    Let's look a little closer:
    NY Jets -- you expect high-fives and handshakes after Mangini ratted Bill out to Goodell? 
    SD - even score Q4
    Buffalo - +7
    Cinci - +7
    Clev - even
    Dallas - they TRAILED in the 3rd qtr.  With Romo and TO, you want them to fall on it?
    Miami - -14, and after backup QB Cassell shit the bed BB had to reinstate Brady for a series.
    Wash - the only real example of running it up.  And one TD was with the backup QB Cassell, who had to prove his worth after stinking it up the week before.

    This is basically the story du jour (or whatever is French for "of the week.")  It really comes down to the Redskins game, when they went for it on 4th down a few times rather than fall on it or kick a long FG.  But all the talk now is how the Patriots are relentless mercenaries, running it up to scare off all future opponents.  It's simply overblown.

    I am not saying they'll never do it again.  And you can bet there is a renewed focus on playing for 60 minutes after blowing an 18-pt lead to Indy last year.  But anyone who is counting the Pats to constantly feed the scoring meter, guaranteeing an over week after week, may be in for a letdown at some point.

    I submit that the high scores are more a reflection of how powerful the team is, and that's not just throwing the ball.  They can run it too.  They average 135 yds/game and 4.2 yds/rush -- with two starting RBs injured during the year.  (Maroney is back now.)

    Bottom line -- you show me a team who complains about running up the score, and I'll show you a losing team.  If they truly wanted to run it up, you would see far higher scores, 50+ per game instead of 40 ppg.  








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    Running it up? 

    I am beyond tired of this week's story angle obsessing over the Patiots running up the score on opponents.  Yes it happened in a few instances, but there is MUCHO overreaction to what really comes down to a handful of plays... and basically, one game.

    It's to the point now where people are incorporating this into their handicapping of the game.  Potential big mistake.

    I wish I could easily review all the plays that were run by the Pats in the 4th Qtr all year to demonstrate how just how often - or how little - this happened.  I do recall specifically them running the ball repeatedly late in the game more than once.  The thing is, they were not just falling on the ball -- they still had success running it. Which tells you something about their offensive line, and in some cases about the defenses they played.

    Yes they went for it on 4th down, yes they threw some passes while ahead.  Yes they are fueling the brewing jealousy into downright hatred throughout the league.

    But let's get real for a second.  Let's look at the Pats results after 3 quarters, and see what a difference a quarter made.  Below I've listed the score after 3Q, then final for each game, and the difference.

    NY Jets    28-14      38-14      +10
    SD           31-7         38-14      EVEN
    Buff          31-7         38-7        +7
    Cinci        24-10      34-13        +7
    Clev         20-3        34-17       EVEN
    Dallas      31-24      48-27         +14
    Miami      42-7         49-28        -14
    Wash      38-0         52-7         +7

    Grand total point 4th Quarter point differential in all 8 games: +31
    Average point differential over 8 games: less than 4 points.

    Let's look a little closer:
    NY Jets -- you expect high-fives and handshakes after Mangini ratted Bill out to Goodell? 
    SD - even score Q4
    Buffalo - +7
    Cinci - +7
    Clev - even
    Dallas - they TRAILED in the 3rd qtr.  With Romo and TO, you want them to fall on it?
    Miami - -14, and after backup QB Cassell shit the bed BB had to reinstate Brady for a series.
    Wash - the only real example of running it up.  And one TD was with the backup QB Cassell, who had to prove his worth after stinking it up the week before.

    This is basically the story du jour (or whatever is French for "of the week.")  It really comes down to the Redskins game, when they went for it on 4th down a few times rather than fall on it or kick a long FG.  But all the talk now is how the Patriots are relentless mercenaries, running it up to scare off all future opponents.  It's simply overblown.

    I am not saying they'll never do it again.  And you can bet there is a renewed focus on playing for 60 minutes after blowing an 18-pt lead to Indy last year.  But anyone who is counting the Pats to constantly feed the scoring meter, guaranteeing an over week after week, may be in for a letdown at some point.

    I submit that the high scores are more a reflection of how powerful the team is, and that's not just throwing the ball.  They can run it too.  They average 135 yds/game and 4.2 yds/rush -- with two starting RBs injured during the year.  (Maroney is back now.)

    Bottom line -- you show me a team who complains about running up the score, and I'll show you a losing team.  If they truly wanted to run it up, you would see far higher scores, 50+ per game instead of 40 ppg.  








     
    WRECKEDEM
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    Posted: Nov. 1, 2007 - 1:12 PM ET #90

    I too will wait until the line goes up a point or so and take the Colts. They are a class organization unlike the Patriots, who do not have an ounce of respect for their opponents.  Great team indeed and they have made a lot of money for folks on this board, but no class. 
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    I too will wait until the line goes up a point or so and take the Colts. They are a class organization unlike the Patriots, who do not have an ounce of respect for their opponents.  Great team indeed and they have made a lot of money for folks on this board, but no class. 
     
    chrischase1981
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    Posted: Nov. 1, 2007 - 1:20 PM ET #91

    I don't see anyone trying to throw a late hit i there this coming week to " teach the Pats a lesson ". I'm sure Roger will be more than willig to throw a nice fine at anyone who does with all of the talk about it so far this week.
     
     
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    I don't see anyone trying to throw a late hit i there this coming week to " teach the Pats a lesson ". I'm sure Roger will be more than willig to throw a nice fine at anyone who does with all of the talk about it so far this week.
     
     
     
    blueglass79
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    Posted: Nov. 1, 2007 - 1:22 PM ET #92

    Quote Originally Posted by cocknocker:

    The points have been made on both sides. The Colts play tougher teams than New England. New England has not played a team anywhere near the top of the defensive standings. It's true. Their toughest test, Dallas is not worth mentioning defensively. Guys are open from the snap of the ball on crossing routes.
     
    On another note; something to look at in the future with regard to New England.
     
    Charles Barkley recently said that if teams feel that the score is being run up, do something about it. "If Tom Brady is back there in the 4th quarter throwing deep balls when his team is up by 30 points some team is going to apply old school rules and take a 15 yard penalty and a fine and a suspension by applying a late hit to him or a Randy Moss to send a message." 
     
    I liken his statement to the unwritten law in his former league that occurs when an NBA team is up by 20 in the 4th quarter with 3 or 4 minutes to go and continues heaving up 3 pointers. Isn't it ironic that a flagrant foul always follows these actions? I thought that the NFL is full of tough guys. maybe the culture of football has changed since when I was young. Deacon Jones or Ronnie Lott would not have gone for the kind of shit that New England is doing. It speaks of a total lack of respect for the opponent. i am surprised that opposing coaches are continuing to shake Belicheck's hand after the games.
     
    You kind of wonder how he would take it if the Colts are up by a certain amount and the fake a kneel down and then go deep on New England in the waning seconds of a game to score a meaningless touchdown. I'm just saying. 
     
    "If teams feel that he is running up the score, they should do something about it." Aptly said Mr. Barkley


    good point CN,  this covers guy wrote a similar article.
    https://experts.covers.com/includes/article_ce.aspx?ce=14986&theArt=153420
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    Quote Originally Posted by cocknocker:

    The points have been made on both sides. The Colts play tougher teams than New England. New England has not played a team anywhere near the top of the defensive standings. It's true. Their toughest test, Dallas is not worth mentioning defensively. Guys are open from the snap of the ball on crossing routes.
     
    On another note; something to look at in the future with regard to New England.
     
    Charles Barkley recently said that if teams feel that the score is being run up, do something about it. "If Tom Brady is back there in the 4th quarter throwing deep balls when his team is up by 30 points some team is going to apply old school rules and take a 15 yard penalty and a fine and a suspension by applying a late hit to him or a Randy Moss to send a message." 
     
    I liken his statement to the unwritten law in his former league that occurs when an NBA team is up by 20 in the 4th quarter with 3 or 4 minutes to go and continues heaving up 3 pointers. Isn't it ironic that a flagrant foul always follows these actions? I thought that the NFL is full of tough guys. maybe the culture of football has changed since when I was young. Deacon Jones or Ronnie Lott would not have gone for the kind of shit that New England is doing. It speaks of a total lack of respect for the opponent. i am surprised that opposing coaches are continuing to shake Belicheck's hand after the games.
     
    You kind of wonder how he would take it if the Colts are up by a certain amount and the fake a kneel down and then go deep on New England in the waning seconds of a game to score a meaningless touchdown. I'm just saying. 
     
    "If teams feel that he is running up the score, they should do something about it." Aptly said Mr. Barkley


    good point CN,  this covers guy wrote a similar article.
    https://experts.covers.com/includes/article_ce.aspx?ce=14986&theArt=153420
     
    rekamyenoM
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    Posted: Nov. 1, 2007 - 1:28 PM ET #93

    Quote Originally Posted by chrischase1981:

    I don't see anyone trying to throw a late hit i there this coming week to " teach the Pats a lesson ". I'm sure Roger will be more than willig to throw a nice fine at anyone who does with all of the talk about it so far this week.
     
     

     

    There's no late hit because there is no on good enough to get to Brady and make it look like an accident. Face it, the Pats are just that good this year. Cash in on them while you can people! Stop hating! It took the Pats 22 years to get their first ring, let them have their glory, and we will make money off of it in the mean time. Can I get a F%@#in amen?!!?

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    Quote Originally Posted by chrischase1981:

    I don't see anyone trying to throw a late hit i there this coming week to " teach the Pats a lesson ". I'm sure Roger will be more than willig to throw a nice fine at anyone who does with all of the talk about it so far this week.
     
     

     

    There's no late hit because there is no on good enough to get to Brady and make it look like an accident. Face it, the Pats are just that good this year. Cash in on them while you can people! Stop hating! It took the Pats 22 years to get their first ring, let them have their glory, and we will make money off of it in the mean time. Can I get a F%@#in amen?!!?

     
    rekamyenoM
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    Posted: Nov. 1, 2007 - 1:34 PM ET #94

    Indy can't be that good if they're a 2 point dog against SD in SD. Indy +2 is the opening line in week 10 vs SD. If the Pats were playing SD in week 10 they would be giving SD 9 or more in their own house.
     
     
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    Indy can't be that good if they're a 2 point dog against SD in SD. Indy +2 is the opening line in week 10 vs SD. If the Pats were playing SD in week 10 they would be giving SD 9 or more in their own house.
     
     
     
    chrischase1981
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    Posted: Nov. 1, 2007 - 1:46 PM ET #95

    What is all of this crap about the AFC East being the weakest division in football? Look who our teams have played.
     
    Bills lost to = Pittsburgh, New England, Dallas, Broncos
    Does this make the Bills a weak team? Fuck no!
     
    NY Jets Lost to = New England, Baltimore, Giants, Philly, and the Bills twice < who I have just stated has only lost to really good teams, besides the Broncos.
     
    Ok, Miami just plain out sucks but 4 of their losses were to Pats, Giants, Cowboys, Skins.
     
    Not a weak division if you ask me, besides the Fins.... Sorry Biddad...
     
    Pulled this from yahoo
     
     1st, AFC East Standing 1st, AFC South 
     439.5 ypg (1st) Offense 399.0 ypg (3rd)  
     303.8 ypg (1st) Passing 258.7 ypg (6th)  
     135.8 ypg (8th) Rushing 140.3 ypg (5th)  
     268.5 ypg (3rd) Defense 272.9 ypg (4th)  
     Won 8 Streaks Won 7
     
     
     
     
     
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    What is all of this crap about the AFC East being the weakest division in football? Look who our teams have played.
     
    Bills lost to = Pittsburgh, New England, Dallas, Broncos
    Does this make the Bills a weak team? Fuck no!
     
    NY Jets Lost to = New England, Baltimore, Giants, Philly, and the Bills twice < who I have just stated has only lost to really good teams, besides the Broncos.
     
    Ok, Miami just plain out sucks but 4 of their losses were to Pats, Giants, Cowboys, Skins.
     
    Not a weak division if you ask me, besides the Fins.... Sorry Biddad...
     
    Pulled this from yahoo
     
     1st, AFC East Standing 1st, AFC South 
     439.5 ypg (1st) Offense 399.0 ypg (3rd)  
     303.8 ypg (1st) Passing 258.7 ypg (6th)  
     135.8 ypg (8th) Rushing 140.3 ypg (5th)  
     268.5 ypg (3rd) Defense 272.9 ypg (4th)  
     Won 8 Streaks Won 7
     
     
     
     
     
     
    GoG
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    Posted: Nov. 1, 2007 - 1:58 PM ET #96

    Danstyk... just curious... i assume the Pats are your team, right? 
     
    you have watched all or most of the Pats games, yes?  end of the Browns game?  Bills game?  Cowboys game?  Dolphins game?  Skins game?
     
    it's actually funny to me that you mentioned people working the "running it up" angle into their handicapping...
     
    i actually watched all of those games... and saying what the 4th quarter score was doesn't really mean anything...
     
    the score in the 1 minute of the Browns game was 7-0 Pats...
    score in the last 1/2 minute of the Cowboys game was 7-0 Pats...
    score in the last 6 min of the Skins game was 14-7 Pats...
     
    you see where i'm going... i'll be honest, i personally don't care that much about the running it up... they can do it if they want to... but what bothers me is this kind of denial... trying to use statistics to convince yourself it isn't happening...
     
    and oh yea, Browns, Dolphins, Bills and Skins game, the Pats were throwing the ball into the endzone late trying to get those scores... didn't actually see if they did that at the end of the Cowboys game, but i do know they ran a play instead of taking a knee to run out the clock...
     
    if you want to say it doesn't matter, or whatever, go ahead... but don't try to fenagle statistics to convince people (or yourself) that it isn't happening... that's just denial, and it's annoying...
     
    the Pats are trying to intimidate, or break records, or whatever they are doing, by running up the scores... it's as simple as that...
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    Danstyk... just curious... i assume the Pats are your team, right? 
     
    you have watched all or most of the Pats games, yes?  end of the Browns game?  Bills game?  Cowboys game?  Dolphins game?  Skins game?
     
    it's actually funny to me that you mentioned people working the "running it up" angle into their handicapping...
     
    i actually watched all of those games... and saying what the 4th quarter score was doesn't really mean anything...
     
    the score in the 1 minute of the Browns game was 7-0 Pats...
    score in the last 1/2 minute of the Cowboys game was 7-0 Pats...
    score in the last 6 min of the Skins game was 14-7 Pats...
     
    you see where i'm going... i'll be honest, i personally don't care that much about the running it up... they can do it if they want to... but what bothers me is this kind of denial... trying to use statistics to convince yourself it isn't happening...
     
    and oh yea, Browns, Dolphins, Bills and Skins game, the Pats were throwing the ball into the endzone late trying to get those scores... didn't actually see if they did that at the end of the Cowboys game, but i do know they ran a play instead of taking a knee to run out the clock...
     
    if you want to say it doesn't matter, or whatever, go ahead... but don't try to fenagle statistics to convince people (or yourself) that it isn't happening... that's just denial, and it's annoying...
     
    the Pats are trying to intimidate, or break records, or whatever they are doing, by running up the scores... it's as simple as that...
     
    GoG
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    Posted: Nov. 1, 2007 - 2:07 PM ET #97

    Quote Originally Posted by chrischase1981:

    What is all of this crap about the AFC East being the weakest division in football? Look who our teams have played.
     
    Bills lost to = Pittsburgh, New England, Dallas, Broncos
    Does this make the Bills a weak team? Fuck no!
     
    NY Jets Lost to = New England, Baltimore, Giants, Philly, and the Bills twice < who I have just stated has only lost to really good teams, besides the Broncos.
     
    Ok, Miami just plain out sucks but 4 of their losses were to Pats, Giants, Cowboys, Skins.
     
     
    once again... painting the roses red!
     
    this is what i don't understand... why twist the stats to prove your point?  what is the purpose?  why not just say what the stats are, instead of always showing half the picture?  are you trying to convince people to bet the Pats?  why?  if you like them, bet them... but don't fabricate an argument...
     
    you point out how great the teams are that they've lost to... but you leave out two parts...
     
    1) the WEAK teams those same teams have lost to...
    2) the fact that between those 3 teams, they have only beaten 1 non AFC East team...
     
    there is a reason the AFC East is considered the weakest division... they are 1-13 outside of the AFC East... if they were a strong division, they would have won some of those games along the way...
     
    the Bills are the only ones that are at least putting up a fight... but still not impressive at 1-3 outside of the division...
     
    meanwhile, the 3 "other" teams in the AFC South... 10-3 out of division...
     
    you're right... the AFC East bottom 3 are much better than the AFC South bottom 3... i mean... look who they've lost to... that IS impressive... WEAK!
     
    so tired of these garbage arguments... why?  i'm sure you can make a case for whatever you are trying to prove without constantly showing everything in the most perfect light... shine a damn light on it and see what turns up...
     
    what are you guys, lawyers?
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrischase1981:

    What is all of this crap about the AFC East being the weakest division in football? Look who our teams have played.
     
    Bills lost to = Pittsburgh, New England, Dallas, Broncos
    Does this make the Bills a weak team? Fuck no!
     
    NY Jets Lost to = New England, Baltimore, Giants, Philly, and the Bills twice < who I have just stated has only lost to really good teams, besides the Broncos.
     
    Ok, Miami just plain out sucks but 4 of their losses were to Pats, Giants, Cowboys, Skins.
     
     
    once again... painting the roses red!
     
    this is what i don't understand... why twist the stats to prove your point?  what is the purpose?  why not just say what the stats are, instead of always showing half the picture?  are you trying to convince people to bet the Pats?  why?  if you like them, bet them... but don't fabricate an argument...
     
    you point out how great the teams are that they've lost to... but you leave out two parts...
     
    1) the WEAK teams those same teams have lost to...
    2) the fact that between those 3 teams, they have only beaten 1 non AFC East team...
     
    there is a reason the AFC East is considered the weakest division... they are 1-13 outside of the AFC East... if they were a strong division, they would have won some of those games along the way...
     
    the Bills are the only ones that are at least putting up a fight... but still not impressive at 1-3 outside of the division...
     
    meanwhile, the 3 "other" teams in the AFC South... 10-3 out of division...
     
    you're right... the AFC East bottom 3 are much better than the AFC South bottom 3... i mean... look who they've lost to... that IS impressive... WEAK!
     
    so tired of these garbage arguments... why?  i'm sure you can make a case for whatever you are trying to prove without constantly showing everything in the most perfect light... shine a damn light on it and see what turns up...
     
    what are you guys, lawyers?
     
    dsummer4
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    Posted: Nov. 1, 2007 - 2:09 PM ET #98

    Wow dude, the cowboys game was to make a statement to that piece of trash TO and also because wade was talking garbage as well before the game.  The skins game, well all I have to say to that is to quote the old ball coach, "Its my job as a coach to put points on the board, its there job as a coach to stop me."  Come on, they cant stop Matt Castle, the man took less than 40 snaps in college.  And get your facts stright on the Browns game, it was a fumble recovery for a touchdown by randle gay,  WOW, REALLY RUNNING IT UP THERE
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    Wow dude, the cowboys game was to make a statement to that piece of trash TO and also because wade was talking garbage as well before the game.  The skins game, well all I have to say to that is to quote the old ball coach, "Its my job as a coach to put points on the board, its there job as a coach to stop me."  Come on, they cant stop Matt Castle, the man took less than 40 snaps in college.  And get your facts stright on the Browns game, it was a fumble recovery for a touchdown by randle gay,  WOW, REALLY RUNNING IT UP THERE
     
    chrischase1981
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    Posted: Nov. 1, 2007 - 2:28 PM ET #99

    Quote Originally Posted by GoG:

    Danstyk... just curious... i assume the Pats are your team, right? 
     
    you have watched all or most of the Pats games, yes?  end of the Browns game?  Bills game?  Cowboys game?  Dolphins game?  Skins game?
     
    it's actually funny to me that you mentioned people working the "running it up" angle into their handicapping...
     
    i actually watched all of those games... and saying what the 4th quarter score was doesn't really mean anything...
     
    the score in the 1 minute of the Browns game was 7-0 Pats...
    score in the last 1/2 minute of the Cowboys game was 7-0 Pats...
    score in the last 6 min of the Skins game was 14-7 Pats...
     

     

    Once again you make yourself sound like a lier. If you were watching the browns game you would know that the last score was when Gay retruned a fumble. I watch all Pats games, just like you say you do, so I'm confused by all of the bull that you keep throwing out there.

    Are you going to say that Gay should have just fallen on the ball.

     

    Dude you are so full of it,.

     

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    Quote Originally Posted by GoG:

    Danstyk... just curious... i assume the Pats are your team, right? 
     
    you have watched all or most of the Pats games, yes?  end of the Browns game?  Bills game?  Cowboys game?  Dolphins game?  Skins game?
     
    it's actually funny to me that you mentioned people working the "running it up" angle into their handicapping...
     
    i actually watched all of those games... and saying what the 4th quarter score was doesn't really mean anything...
     
    the score in the 1 minute of the Browns game was 7-0 Pats...
    score in the last 1/2 minute of the Cowboys game was 7-0 Pats...
    score in the last 6 min of the Skins game was 14-7 Pats...
     

     

    Once again you make yourself sound like a lier. If you were watching the browns game you would know that the last score was when Gay retruned a fumble. I watch all Pats games, just like you say you do, so I'm confused by all of the bull that you keep throwing out there.

    Are you going to say that Gay should have just fallen on the ball.

     

    Dude you are so full of it,.

     

     
     
    chrischase1981
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    Posts: 343
    Posted: Nov. 1, 2007 - 2:31 PM ET #100

    Quote Originally Posted by dsummer4:

    Wow dude, the cowboys game was to make a statement to that piece of trash TO and also because wade was talking garbage as well before the game.  The skins game, well all I have to say to that is to quote the old ball coach, "Its my job as a coach to put points on the board, its there job as a coach to stop me."  Come on, they cant stop Matt Castle, the man took less than 40 snaps in college.  And get your facts stright on the Browns game, it was a fumble recovery for a touchdown by randle gay,  WOW, REALLY RUNNING IT UP THERE

     

    I didn't read your post before mine. This guy is so full of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dsummer4:

    Wow dude, the cowboys game was to make a statement to that piece of trash TO and also because wade was talking garbage as well before the game.  The skins game, well all I have to say to that is to quote the old ball coach, "Its my job as a coach to put points on the board, its there job as a coach to stop me."  Come on, they cant stop Matt Castle, the man took less than 40 snaps in college.  And get your facts stright on the Browns game, it was a fumble recovery for a touchdown by randle gay,  WOW, REALLY RUNNING IT UP THERE

     

    I didn't read your post before mine. This guy is so full of it.

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