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If Christ died on the cross for all of humanity

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Posted: #3551
Nice come back. 

 The Bible told me so ...........................
 
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Posted: #3552
Quote Originally Posted by I_Need_A_Detox:

I here summarize briefly the evidence that has convinced scientists that the Earth is 4.5 to 4.6 billion years old.

Did those scientists say that the 4.5 to 4.6 billion years are within plus or minus a day or two on either side?...lol

Don't mind me just making fun of how accurate can they really be with all this conjecture.

 
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Posted: #3553
Do you know how long 4.5 billion years is. You want them to nail the exact date? 

That's pretty dumb. Come on ... admit it. 

I like how they don't pretend to have all the answers. It sounds better than stories like Noah's Arc. 
 
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Posted: #3554
Quote Originally Posted by I_Need_A_Detox:

Do you know how long 4.5 billion years is. You want them to nail the exact date? 

That's pretty dumb. Come on ... admit it. 

I like how they don't pretend to have all the answers. It sounds better than stories like Noah's Arc. 

Relax...can't we have some humour early in the morning?...lol

Boy...you are way to serious at this time of the day...lol

 
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Posted: #3555
Quote Originally Posted by SirJohnDrake:

Relax...can't we have some humour early in the morning?...lol

Boy...you are way to serious at this time of the day...lol


Did you erase 2 of my emoticons?  
 
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Posted: #3556
Quote Originally Posted by smoothd20:


After having to your endure your hateful posts jagerfury I have come to the conclusion that you're nothing more than a Troll and a Tool. Please go back to that rock from which you crawled out from under.
I'm not the one who thinks women, and minorities are lesser class people racist bigot.
I'd rather be playing D&D.
 
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Posted: #3557
Quote Originally Posted by jagerfury:

I'm not the one who thinks women, and minorities are lesser class people racist bigot.

When have you heard me say that women and minorities are lesser class people. This is your problem jagerfury. You make stuff up or you take words out of context and run with it. Show me a post where I have done this!
 
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Posted: #3558
In order for the Earth to be 6000 years old that would mean that there was no Ice Age, no dinosaurs or other prehistoric animals, cave men didn't exist and the Universe just started 6000 years ago. I think it's only reasonable to conclude that any respectable scientist regardless of what "evidence" or math formula he or she is using is simply wrong. 600 years ago the "scientists" of that day swore the Earth was flat. Just because a "scientist" says they have evidence doesn't make that truth. I don't think that the bible says the Earth is only 6000 years ago. I just believe that some Christians have put God in a box to prove a larger point against the atheist. My point is God is not limited in any way and the Universe being billions of years old by no means should mean that he doesn't exist. On the contrary that itself should show that there was an initial cause and God is that cause. 
 
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Posted: #3559
The Bible is the word of God. Just because certain books have been taken out by certain powers like the Catholic church for political reason doesn't make the Bible invalid. The Bible doesn't condone violence to women. People that don't know or haven't read the Bible often refer to this fallacy. Is there violence in the Bible? Yes. Is there violence towards women in the Bible? Yes. Is the Bible saying that's the right thing to do? No. The Bible if you would take the time to read it tells different stories that reflect all the conditions of life. The good, bad and the ugly. Just because I tell you a story about violence doesn't mean I'm condoning the act itself. The Bible tells you a story and tells you what happened to those people that committed those acts. The Bible is a perfect book to help you through your daily life. The beauty of the book is that it will meet you at your level of understanding. Today I read certain books in the Bible with a complete different understanding than I did 5, 10 years ago. I would strongly encourage everyone to read the good book with a open mind. Also keep in mind the difference between the Old and New testaments. The laws of the Old testament don't apply to us today. Jesus brought in the new law and therefore we don't need to do sacrifices and things of this nature. Just as we grow God living through us grows and continues to express himself through us. 
Man has tried to control people since the beginning of time. I could write a book about this. 
 
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Posted: #3560
Christianity needed to compete with the Pagan religions in the Roman era and so the Christians adopted Pagan traditions in order for people to accept it. This is how we got the current celebration of Christmas along with the Christmas tree and other traditions. These all have Pagan origins. Hence the Jehovah's Witnesses are correct in this. Easter is another tradition that was co-opted from the Pagans. The Pagans worshiped the Rabbit as some sort of fertility symbol. Now we know the real meaning of Christmas and Easter have nothing to do with Santa Claus and Rabbits. 
I'm not saying we shouldn't celebrate these holidays on the contrary I believe they're important but at the same time we have to realize the decisions that were made regarding certain practices that have become attached to these Holy days and not turn our backs on them as if somehow because these things happened invalidates the meaning behind the Holy days. 
We should also remember that in those days there was only 10 months to the year. December (latin form deca) means 10. We got 2 months added thanks to Julius Caesar who gave us July. This was followed by Augustus Caesar who gave us August. This is a story by itself. 
 Decisions was made in Council of Nicea to change certain aspects of Christianity in order to gain control of man. There were changes made to the Bible and certain books were removed. The Book of Enoch is an important book that talks about forbidden subjects. I wont go there but if you take the time to study it believe me it will spin your head. Also I might add no atheist can read that book and study some of the subjects and still be an atheist. My point is "Christianity" doesn't define God. Man has tried over thousands of years to control other men in the name of God. No man, church or organization can speak for God. God is above all religions and dogma. That is man trying to control his fellow man. Am I anti-religion? No, but I recognize how things are being controlled by the powers that be to make us think in a certain way. So we as Christians can't take every word spoon fed to us by some messenger that claims to be directly from God. I tell people all the time. Pray to our heavenly father and he reveal his truth to you. This is what I do and it's why I don't look to any organization to tell me what God wants or that the Bible has all the answers when the Bible tells us that it doesn't have all the answers. It gives us what we need to know to live on this planet. A wise man once told me that "what you don't know will make a whole other world" I try to remember that when I think about the complexity of the Universe that God created. Peace to everyone during this Holy time of year.
 
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Posted: #3561
Just because a "scientist" says they have evidence doesn't make that truth.
_____________

But people who believe in God say they have evidence and they are perfectly comfortable with that being the "truth."  What is the difference?


 
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Posted: #3562
One can make the case that christianity is a pagan religion.  God the father, god the son, and the holy spirit...

They say it's they're all one god, but that's stupid.  It's 3 gods...
 
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Posted: #3563
Quote Originally Posted by smoothd20:

The Bible is the word of God. Just because certain books have been taken out by certain powers like the Catholic church for political reason doesn't make the Bible invalid. The Bible doesn't condone violence to women. People that don't know or haven't read the Bible often refer to this fallacy. Is there violence in the Bible? Yes. Is there violence towards women in the Bible? Yes. Is the Bible saying that's the right thing to do? No. The Bible if you would take the time to read it tells different stories that reflect all the conditions of life. The good, bad and the ugly. Just because I tell you a story about violence doesn't mean I'm condoning the act itself. The Bible tells you a story and tells you what happened to those people that committed those acts. The Bible is a perfect book to help you through your daily life. The beauty of the book is that it will meet you at your level of understanding. Today I read certain books in the Bible with a complete different understanding than I did 5, 10 years ago. I would strongly encourage everyone to read the good book with a open mind. Also keep in mind the difference between the Old and New testaments. The laws of the Old testament don't apply to us today. Jesus brought in the new law and therefore we don't need to do sacrifices and things of this nature. Just as we grow God living through us grows and continues to express himself through us. 
Man has tried to control people since the beginning of time. I could write a book about this. 

It says to kill people.  How is that ok?
 
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Posted: #3564
General question: How come god wrote the New Testament? What was wrong with the Old Testament? Why would god, an all perfect god, write a book that was so wrong that he needed to write an entirely new one to revise his mistakes?
 
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Posted: #3565
Quote Originally Posted by KittyKatz286:

General question: How come god wrote the New Testament? What was wrong with the Old Testament? Why would god, an all perfect god, write a book that was so wrong that he needed to write an entirely new one to revise his mistakes?

because man didn't like the first one they wrote. it had too much murder, rape, genocide,  and slavery...
 
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Posted: #3566
Quote Originally Posted by smoothd20:

In order for the Earth to be 6000 years old that would mean that there was no Ice Age, no dinosaurs or other prehistoric animals, cave men didn't exist and the Universe just started 6000 years ago. I think it's only reasonable to conclude that any respectable scientist regardless of what "evidence" or math formula he or she is using is simply wrong. 600 years ago the "scientists" of that day swore the Earth was flat. Just because a "scientist" says they have evidence doesn't make that truth. I don't think that the bible says the Earth is only 6000 years ago. I just believe that some Christians have put God in a box to prove a larger point against the atheist. My point is God is not limited in any way and the Universe being billions of years old by no means should mean that he doesn't exist. On the contrary that itself should show that there was an initial cause and God is that cause. 

Actually, the ice age and dinosaurs help to confirm a young earth theory and the great flood that the Bible talks about.

These topics that you mention help to confirm the flood and as to what created the Grand Canyon, limestone, asteroids, layered fossils and the like.
 
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Posted: #3567
6,000 year old earth continued...

Human footprints have frequently been found in ancient strata. 

What fully appear to be human footprints have been found in rock from as early as the Carboniferous Period.

This, of course, doesn't fit well with what we have been taught growing up, because man is only supposed to be as old as about a million years, but the Carboniferous Period is purported to have occurred some 250,000,000 years ago.

The following excerpts are from the periodical, Scientific American, in an article written by Albert Ingalls titled "The Carboniferous Mystery."

It's referring to human footprints, and it reads:

On sites reaching from Virginia and Pennsylvania, through Kentucky, Illinois, Missouri and westward toward the Rocky Mountains, prints similar to those shown above (he's referring to several accompanying pictures), and from 5 to 10 inches long, have been found on the surface of exposed rocks, and more and more keep turning up as the years go by.

Ingalls continues:

If man, or even his ape ancestor, or even that ape ancestor's early mammalian ancestor, existed as far back as in the Carboniferous Period in any shape, then the whole science of geology is so completely wrong that all the geologists will resign their jobs and take up truck driving.

Hence, for the present at least, science rejects the attractive explanation that man made these mysterious prints in the mud of the Carboniferous Period with his feet.

Ingalls and his colleagues reject this information because it contradicts their preconceived notions.

Notions that are simply not provable, because they're not true.

Roland Bird, a paleontologist from the American Museum of Natural History, examined rocks bearing remarkable human footprints that were discovered in a Cretaceous (claimed to be around 100,000,000 years old) limestone formation near Glen Rose, Texas.

The following is his statement as published in a 1939 issue of Natural History:

"Yes, they apparently were real enough. Real as rock could be...the strangest things of their kind I had ever seen. On the surface of each was splayed the near-likeness of a human foot, perfect in every detail. But each imprint was 15 inches long!" 

Genesis 6:4: says "There were giants in the earth in those days".


 
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Posted: #3568
6,000 year old earth continued...

Another argument is that if some stars are as much as 12 billion light-years from the earth, and we see their light, doesn't that prove the universe is billions of years old?

This excerpt was taken from an article called "Starlight and Age of Universe:"

What if Einstein's theory of general relativity and the speed of light being constant were wrong?

Scientist Joao Magueijo has been making news since he challenged Einstein's theory in 1995. 

He challenged Einstein just as Einstein had challenged Newton before him.

A major feature story concerning Magueijo and his challenge was recently published in the April 2003 edition of Discover magazine.

The following excerpt is from that article.

But Magueijo never liked the inflation theory. 

The idea that the universe expanded from a subatomic mote in less than a billionth of a trillionth of a second seemed unlikely at best to him, and there are obvious problems with the theory. It relies on a mysterious inflationary field and a weird antigravity particle called an inflation, neither of which has ever been detected. 

Magueijo decided there must be a better explanation, and on that wet winter morning eight years ago, it came to him.

Cosmologists wouldn?t need to invoke inflation if they could bring themselves to give up one of their most sacrosanct laws:

The speed of light is, it was, and ever shall be 186,282 miles per second.

Magueijo now believes that "for a few moments at the beginning of time, the universe's extreme heat made photons... particles of light zip along much faster than 186,282 miles per second, at almost infinite velocities.

Then, as the universe began to expand and cool, its physical properties abruptly changed, just as water suddenly transforms into ice at the freezing point. When the temperature dropped below a critical transition value, light froze at the lower speed we now observe."

Scientist Magueijo's new theory became known as the Variable Speed of Light theory. 

The article continues:

Magueijo says his theory can match inflation's accomplishments and insists inflation rests on shaky ground. "The inflationary field is a mysterious thing no one has ever seen," he says. 

VSL is exactly the opposite.

We don't introduce anything new in the universe in terms of ingredients. We just say the physics were different early on. Besides, he says, it's unfair to compare a two-decades-old theory like inflation with his new-born brainchild. "Things are normally not very pretty when they first come into the world. It's true of humans, it's true of everything. Then we start growing. A few hairs here and there; things start looking a bit better."

Magueijo's baby started looking much better two years ago. That was when a discovery by John Webb, an astronomer at the University of New South Wales in Sydney, Australia made headlines around the world.

It read, "If the results are correct," Turner says, "this is certainly one of the most important discoveries in the last 100 years."

Webb used data collected by the world's most powerful telescope the Keck, perched on the summit of Mauna Kea, 13,796 feet up on the Big Island of Hawaii.

He looked at light from 68 quasars extremely bright young galaxies as much as 12 billion light-years from Earth. During the light's long journey to Earth, it passed through clouds of intergalactic gas. In doing so, the light's spectra changed, depending on the chemical elements in the clouds....




 
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Posted: #3569
6,000 year old earth continued...

PART 2...Another argument is that if some stars are as much as 12 billion light-years from the earth, and we see their light, doesn't that prove the universe is billions of years old?

This excerpt was taken from an article called "Starlight and Age of Universe:"

The answer to this question is pretty simple and it is found in the Bible.

Slightly over 6,000 years ago, Adam was created by God a fully mature man, and Eve was made a fully mature woman.

By today's standard, a man is fully developed around the age of 33. By today's standard then, Adam opened his eyes for the first time and appeared to be about 33 years-old, when in fact, he was only seconds old. Eve opened her eyes a fully developed woman, but also was only seconds old.

All of God's creation was created fully mature and fully functioning.

The seas and their tides and boundaries were created fully mature and fully functioning. The grass, herbs, trees, and trees bearing fruit were created fully mature and fully functioning. On the fourth day of creation, God created the sun, moon, and stars, and set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth.

As in all of creation, they were fully mature and fully functioning.

Not only was their purpose to give light and the energy of life, but also for signs, seasons, and for days and years. The sunlight, moonlight, and starlight were created by God fully mature and fully functioning.

Their lights were shining on the earth in the beginning of their creation, at the very first moments.

The light from some stars appears to be millions or even billions of light-years away, but their light was fully mature and fully functioning on the very first day of creation already here, giving light upon the earth and fulfilling their specific jobs.

The light beam on the day of its creation appeared to be billions of light-years old, when in fact, it was just seconds.

Now a new scientific theory is beginning to line up, suggesting that in the beginning, the speed of light was not 186,282 miles per second, but rather almost infinite. In other words, fully mature and fully functioning.

In all due respect to scientist Joao Magueijo, his idea is not entirely new. 

The following excerpt is taken from an article in Journal of the Optical Society of America, August 1953, titled "Binary Stars and the Velocity of Light:"

"The acceptance of Riemannian space allows us to reject Einstein's relativity and to keep all the ordinary ideas of time and all the ideas of Euclidean space out to a distance of a few light years.

Astronomical space remains Euclidean for material bodies, but light is considered to travel in Riemannian space.

In this way the time required for light to reach us from the most distant stars is only 15 years."

 
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Posted: #3570
Quote Originally Posted by Mikniks:


It says to kill people.  How is that ok?

I already answered this question by you on pg. 61 #1507. Why do you keep asking the same questions? Are you running out of new questions to ask?...lol I'm thinking maybe it's because you're a homosexual and you're afraid Christians today might kill you...lol I can tell you relax, no devout Christian will kill you mik. Anyway below is the answer I gave you.

You should be ashamed of yourself. Somewhere I read that you had 15 years of attending a Catholic school and so you should know the scriptures well enough that it can be misinterpreted but on the otherhand maybe you just weren't paying close attention in your studies and your parents wasted their hard earned money on you to be properly educated.

A few posts ago I did answer your question concerning punishments during the time of Moses and the answer I'm going to give you here is pretty similar to the one I gave you earlier. So let me explain again and please don't keep asking similar questions concerning the Old Testament when I have already given you an answer that covers punishments in the Old Testament, it makes me think that you don't have a good memory and are not very bright.

Jesus Christ said, "Don't misunderstand why I have come. I did not come to abolish the law of Moses or the writings of the prophets. No, I came to accomplish their purpose. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not even the smallest detail of God's law will disappear until its purpose is achieved. So if you ignore the least commandment and teach others to do the same, you will be called the least in the Kingdom of Heaven. But anyone who obeys God's laws and teaches them will be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven." ---Matthew 5:17-19 NLT

So in otherwords Jesus didn't come to us to amend or change any laws that were written in the Old Testament. All of the laws that God handed down to Moses which includes the Ten Commandments and laws like forbidden sexual practices still stands. However the punishments for disobedience were direct instructions to Moses to carry out when God spoke directly to him and should not be confused by one thinking God wants us to carry out those punishments today too...no, no, no!!! This is how people can get in serious trouble today by misinterpreting the bible.

It is like a military commander who gives a direct order to a subordinate to carry out. If someone else sees the order it is not for them to carry out. Only the subordinate who received the order has the authority to carry it out. And yes God said thou shalt not kill but when He gives a direct order that is the only time where killing is permitted and this killing by the authority of God is justified because it is a killing or punishment for disobedience which to God is a serious capital offense.

So there is your answer. The bible is not telling people who are currently living in the 21st century to round up homosexuals and kill them...you got it? They will get their punishments directly from Him because homosexuality is and will always be a sin to God as written in the Holy Bible.
 
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Posted: #3571
Quote Originally Posted by Mikniks:

One can make the case that christianity is a pagan religion.  God the father, god the son, and the holy spirit...

They say it's they're all one god, but that's stupid.  It's 3 gods...

C'mon you went to Catholic school and you know what they taught you about the Trinity.

 
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Posted: #3572
Quote Originally Posted by SirJohnDrake:

I already answered this question by you on pg. 61 #1507. Why do you keep asking the same questions? Are you running out of new questions to ask?...lol I'm thinking maybe it's because you're a homosexual and you're afraid Christians today might kill you...lol I can tell you relax, no devout Christian will kill you mik. Anyway below is the answer I gave you.

You should be ashamed of yourself. Somewhere I read that you had 15 years of attending a Catholic school and so you should know the scriptures well enough that it can be misinterpreted but on the otherhand maybe you just weren't paying close attention in your studies and your parents wasted their hard earned money on you to be properly educated.

A few posts ago I did answer your question concerning punishments during the time of Moses and the answer I'm going to give you here is pretty similar to the one I gave you earlier. So let me explain again and please don't keep asking similar questions concerning the Old Testament when I have already given you an answer that covers punishments in the Old Testament, it makes me think that you don't have a good memory and are not very bright.

Jesus Christ said, "Don't misunderstand why I have come. I did not come to abolish the law of Moses or the writings of the prophets. No, I came to accomplish their purpose. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not even the smallest detail of God's law will disappear until its purpose is achieved. So if you ignore the least commandment and teach others to do the same, you will be called the least in the Kingdom of Heaven. But anyone who obeys God's laws and teaches them will be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven." ---Matthew 5:17-19 NLT

So in otherwords Jesus didn't come to us to amend or change any laws that were written in the Old Testament. All of the laws that God handed down to Moses which includes the Ten Commandments and laws like forbidden sexual practices still stands. However the punishments for disobedience were direct instructions to Moses to carry out when God spoke directly to him and should not be confused by one thinking God wants us to carry out those punishments today too...no, no, no!!! This is how people can get in serious trouble today by misinterpreting the bible.

It is like a military commander who gives a direct order to a subordinate to carry out. If someone else sees the order it is not for them to carry out. Only the subordinate who received the order has the authority to carry it out. And yes God said thou shalt not kill but when He gives a direct order that is the only time where killing is permitted and this killing by the authority of God is justified because it is a killing or punishment for disobedience which to God is a serious capital offense.

So there is your answer. The bible is not telling people who are currently living in the 21st century to round up homosexuals and kill them...you got it? They will get their punishments directly from Him because homosexuality is and will always be a sin to God as written in the Holy Bible.


I like how you can pick and choose what parts of the bible to take literally.  You're an idiot.
 
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Posted: #3573
Basically what you're saying is that god only hated people during the time of Moses... Okay...
 
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Posted: #3574
Quote Originally Posted by SirJohnDrake:

C'mon you went to Catholic school and you know what they taught you about the Trinity.



Yea I know what it is and Catholics worship 3 gods...

Tri = 3
 
 
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Posted: #3575

Quote Originally Posted by Mikniks:



Yea I know what it is and Catholics worship 3 gods...

Tri = 3

The trinity makes one Godhead...you get it, it's one Godhead.

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