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If Christ died on the cross for all of humanity

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Posted: #4251
Common atheist strategy: When a tough question is asked either ignore the question of answer the question with a question. The next step is to dismiss it on some trivial technicality. 

Contradiction is the order of the day and then back pedal when confronted about conflicting points. If a theist is weak minded they can easily fall for the atheist lies and falsehoods. One must be of strong mind and will when dealing with them because they can be very cunning in their arguments.
 
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Posted: #4252
Quote Originally Posted by smoothd20:

Common atheist strategy: When a tough question is asked either ignore the question of answer the question with a question. The next step is to dismiss it on some trivial technicality. 

Contradiction is the order of the day and then back pedal when confronted about conflicting points. If a theist is weak minded they can easily fall for the atheist lies and falsehoods. One must be of strong mind and will when dealing with them because they can be very cunning in their arguments.

I cannot speak for anyone else, but I know that I haven't proclaimed anything as 100% true unless it actually was. In the discussion about life being meaningless, I have at no point said it is not ok for you to think life has meaning, it is in fact completely acceptable, go right ahead, I'm just telling you what I think and why I think so.
 
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Posted: #4253
Let me break this down for you guys to show you what I have said is not contradictory...

A statement is not contradictory if both parts can be true at the same time.

Part 1: Life is meaningless.

Part 2: I think everyone WHILE ALIVE should receive equal treatment.

These statements in no way contradict each other...
 
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Posted: #4254
Quote Originally Posted by smoothd20:

Common atheist strategy: When a tough question is asked either ignore the question of answer the question with a question. The next step is to dismiss it on some trivial technicality. 

Contradiction is the order of the day and then back pedal when confronted about conflicting points. If a theist is weak minded they can easily fall for the atheist lies and falsehoods. One must be of strong mind and will when dealing with them because they can be very cunning in their arguments.

I think the atheist tries to get the theist involved in the emotional arguments against God. That is there trump card.

 

 
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Posted: #4255

KK said that because life is meaningless, everyone should be selfish and only worried about themselves, meaning anyone showing compassion or care about anyone else, is stupid.

I then pointed out about soldier who gave up his life to save 3-4 others to which KK said he is stupid.

But KK has been here for the past 3 weeks arguing about a few people on the side of the streets putting up anti homosexual slogans....Shpwing care for homosexuals.

So KK has said anyone who cares for another is stupid, therefore, by his logic, him and Miknicks are stupid for caring about homosexuals............if you are logically consistent, then you will agree you are both stupid........

Show this to anyone, and they will agree.......It isnt very difficult.

 
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Posted: #4256
Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

KK said that because life is meaningless, everyone should be selfish and only worried about themselves, meaning anyone showing compassion or care about anyone else, is stupid.

I then pointed out about soldier who gave up his life to save 3-4 others to which KK said he is stupid.

But KK has been here for the past 3 weeks arguing about a few people on the side of the streets putting up anti homosexual slogans....Shpwing care for homosexuals.

So KK has said anyone who cares for another is stupid, therefore, by his logic, him and Miknicks are stupid for caring about homosexuals............if you are logically consistent, then you will agree you are both stupid........

Show this to anyone, and they will agree.......It isnt very difficult.


GO TO POST #4257 AND SHOW ME THE CONTRADICTION
 
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Posted: #4257
Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

KK said that because life is meaningless, everyone should be selfish and only worried about themselves, meaning anyone showing compassion or care about anyone else, is stupid.

I then pointed out about soldier who gave up his life to save 3-4 others to which KK said he is stupid.

But KK has been here for the past 3 weeks arguing about a few people on the side of the streets putting up anti homosexual slogans....Shpwing care for homosexuals.

So KK has said anyone who cares for another is stupid, therefore, by his logic, him and Miknicks are stupid for caring about homosexuals............if you are logically consistent, then you will agree you are both stupid........

Show this to anyone, and they will agree.......It isnt very difficult.


But saying the solider is stupid does not mean he is stupid in general. He is stupid for a specific reason. That reason is that he is giving up his own life for others. I personally do not believe in this type of conduct. I would not value someone else's life over mine. So I am not focusing on the selfless act that he performed regarding the compassion he showed for others. I am referring to his decision to give up his own life.

Regarding caring for homosexuals. I do not have to give up my life to care about homosexuals. You see the distinction? I am not saying that you should never do anything to help others and not care. I am saying that you should generally think about yourself first. Not always, just in general. For example: I wanna live in the best society possible. I want the world to be as safe as possible. It benefits me if people aren't lashing out on homosexuals simply because they don't agree with the homosexual's conduct.

I believe that my previous statements may have seemed unclear and I hope this clarifies for you. It would be beneficial for the continuing of this discussion if you focused on what I've said here and disregard any apparent prior inconsistencies regarding these two examples because I am telling you now that what I am saying here is what I meant all along; if that was not clear, then I apologize, but do not treat those previous statements like they meant something else.
 
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Posted: #4258
Quote Originally Posted by Mikniks:


GO TO POST #4257 AND SHOW ME THE CONTRADICTION

Well if what Rostos said about what we said was accurate then there would be a contradiction. He thinks we believe caring for others is stupid in general, which was not the point of the soldier example. Caring to the point of giving up your own life for others is stupid, but caring for others in general is certainly not stupid.
 
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Posted: #4259
Quote Originally Posted by KittyKatz286:


Well if what Rostos said about what we said was accurate then there would be a contradiction. He thinks we believe caring for others is stupid in general, which was not the point of the soldier example. Caring to the point of giving up your own life for others is stupid, but caring for others in general is certainly not stupid.

Typical Rostos twisting words...
 
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Posted: #4260
Quote Originally Posted by KittyKatz286:


But saying the solider is stupid does not mean he is stupid in general. He is stupid for a specific reason. That reason is that he is giving up his own life for others. I personally do not believe in this type of conduct. I would not value someone else's life over mine. So I am not focusing on the selfless act that he performed regarding the compassion he showed for others. I am referring to his decision to give up his own life.
 
 

Regarding caring for homosexuals. I do not have to give up my life to care about homosexuals. You see the distinction? I am not saying that you should never do anything to help others and not care. I am saying that you should generally think about yourself first. Not always, just in general. For example: I wanna live in the best society possible. I want the world to be as safe as possible. It benefits me if people aren't lashing out on homosexuals simply because they don't agree with the homosexual's conduct.

I believe that my previous statements may have seemed unclear and I hope this clarifies for you. It would be beneficial for the continuing of this discussion if you focused on what I've said here and disregard any apparent prior inconsistencies regarding these two examples because I am telling you now that what I am saying here is what I meant all along; if that was not clear, then I apologize, but do not treat those previous statements like they meant something else.

Again,in your world, it is all relative, if you think what he did was stupid, to you it is all relative. Again, but this further points out the absurd relativism in atheism, ie, murdering and raping little girls is no different to bagging out homosexuals, calling people black c### or helping out the poor, feeding hungry children, curing dieases in young children are ALL INDIFFERENT in your world view.

If you truely believe in a world of relativism, why have you been on here trying to convince us that what the bible says about homosexuals is wrong? That to me SHOWS you dont believe in relativism. What you have been saying and how you have been acting are 2 different things.

In your world view, arguing about homosexuals is no different to me saying chocolate ice cream is good and you say Vanilla is better. All relative.

isnt is absurd that all the atheists who by definition must be moral relativists, point out about the atrocities in the bible, rules in the bible as if they are wrong?????? Its a contradiction

I think this is just one of many reasons why atheism only accounts for about 5-6% of the world....it is absurd.

 

 
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Posted: #4261
Quote Originally Posted by Mikniks:


Well, if you had a brain you would realize it is two separate situations.

One has to do with how people should be treated, because I think everyone should be treated equally.  The other has to do with the intrinsic value of life.  Since I think this is our only life, I think everyone should get equal treatment while alive, BUT it is no loss (for me anyway) if someone I don't care about dies.

Like I said, you would probably not see your inconsistencies...I rest my case!...lol

More of the blah blah blah responses that don't add up...lol

 
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Posted: #4262
Quote Originally Posted by SirJohnDrake:

Like I said, you would probably not see your inconsistencies...I rest my case!...lol

More of the blah blah blah responses that don't add up...lol

fancy a bunch of moral relativist arguing that the moral code in the bible is wrong.......

 
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Posted: #4263
GO TO POST #4257 AND SHOW ME THE CONTRADICTION
 
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Posted: #4264
Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

Again,in your world, it is all relative, if you think what he did was stupid, to you it is all relative. Again, but this further points out the absurd relativism in atheism, ie, murdering and raping little girls is no different to bagging out homosexuals, calling people black c### or helping out the poor, feeding hungry children, curing dieases in young children are ALL INDIFFERENT in your world view.

If you truely believe in a world of relativism, why have you been on here trying to convince us that what the bible says about homosexuals is wrong? That to me SHOWS you dont believe in relativism. What you have been saying and how you have been acting are 2 different things.

In your world view, arguing about homosexuals is no different to me saying chocolate ice cream is good and you say Vanilla is better. All relative.

isnt is absurd that all the atheists who by definition must be moral relativists, point out about the atrocities in the bible, rules in the bible as if they are wrong?????? Its a contradiction

I think this is just one of many reasons why atheism only accounts for about 5-6% of the world....it is absurd.

 


Yes. Moral relativism. How is pointing out contradictions in the bible relevant? The bible is supposed to be the source of ABSOLUTE MORALS. In discussing the bible, we are dealing with YOUR WORLD, not ours. In ours, what the bible says is fine in relative terms. The problem is you think it is absolute and if it is absolute, it cannot contradict other absolute morals within the bible.

You cannot compare our discussions of the bible to this discussion because the two are on separate playing fields. Regarding moral relativism, of course the bible COULD be ok relative to your beliefs. But relative to society and the betterment of the nation, my opinion on the bible's beliefs on homosexuality is that it is wrong. This is not an absolute statement.

You may disagree with me and that is fine since your beliefs do not coincide with mine. I am ok with that. But you cannot say I am contradicting myself when I have shown you repeatedly why and how I am not.
 
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Posted: #4265
Quote Originally Posted by SirJohnDrake:

Like I said, you would probably not see your inconsistencies...I rest my case!...lol

More of the blah blah blah responses that don't add up...lol


I'm sorry it looks like "blah blah blah" to you, but honestly it isn't my fault you lack reading comprehension skills.
 
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Posted: #4266
Random, but funny.

When you type in "contrad" in google, google instant automatically gives you "contradictions in the bible" as one of the choices lol
 
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Posted: #4267
Quote Originally Posted by Mikniks:

Let me break this down for you guys to show you what I have said is not contradictory...

A statement is not contradictory if both parts can be true at the same time.

Part 1: Life is meaningless.

Part 2: I think everyone WHILE ALIVE should receive equal treatment.

These statements in no way contradict each other...

 

You're 100% correct on everything you said.  This can't be disputed. 

But human emotion or action is not black and white like the statement above.  Just do a simple exercise of cause and effect.  If life is meaningless than do you expect human emotion to say we're going to treat everyone the same?  It's not reality to really believe that statement above, not when people have greed comes into play. 

 
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Posted: #4268
Quote Originally Posted by 165yds:

You're 100% correct on everything you said.  This can't be disputed. 

But human emotion or action is not black and white like the statement above.  Just do a simple exercise of cause and effect.  If life is meaningless than do you expect human emotion to say we're going to treat everyone the same?  It's not reality to really believe that statement above, not when people have greed comes into play. 


But that doesn't make us not allowed to believe everyone should be equal. We all know that that simply isn't gonna happen. Everyone is certainly not gonna treat everyone the same. That doesn't mean we can't strive for that. Nor does it contradict with the belief that life is meaningless.
 
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Posted: #4269
Quote Originally Posted by 165yds:

You're 100% correct on everything you said.  This can't be disputed. 

But human emotion or action is not black and white like the statement above.  Just do a simple exercise of cause and effect.  If life is meaningless than do you expect human emotion to say we're going to treat everyone the same?  It's not reality to really believe that statement above, not when people have greed comes into play. 


No, of course not.  I don't expect everyone to be treated equally, but it would be nice.
 
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Posted: #4270
Quote Originally Posted by KittyKatz286:


Yes. Moral relativism. How is pointing out contradictions in the bible relevant? The bible is supposed to be the source of ABSOLUTE MORALS. In discussing the bible, we are dealing with YOUR WORLD, not ours. In ours, what the bible says is fine in relative terms. The problem is you think it is absolute and if it is absolute, it cannot contradict other absolute morals within the bible.

You cannot compare our discussions of the bible to this discussion because the two are on separate playing fields. Regarding moral relativism, of course the bible COULD be ok relative to your beliefs. But relative to society and the betterment of the nation, my opinion on the bible's beliefs on homosexuality is that it is wrong. This is not an absolute statement.

You may disagree with me and that is fine since your beliefs do not coincide with mine. I am ok with that. But you cannot say I am contradicting myself when I have shown you repeatedly why and how I am not.

In your view, morals are relative, in my view they are absolute.

I can look at your view on homosexuality and say it is wrong because i believe in the bible and it says so.

The only response you can have is, i dont believe God exists, i dont believe the bible, therefore, in my eyes, this topic is no different to chocolate being better than vanilla, why bother even talking about it from YOUR VIEW? There isnt any at all.

You have no reason at all to argue if homosexual is right or wrong, none, it is just one view against another......

Wether murdering babies, raping little girls , shitting on little boys faces, feeding the poor, bashing gays, curing diseases are neither right or wrong in your world, yet you have been arguing with me about my view that my view on gays is wrong?

What you say and how you have been acting are in contradiction to each other......

Its like a post a thread and say "all gays should be bashed and murdered", then you enter and say that is wrong for you to say that??

All what you can say is, "that is your view, you are neither right or wrong"

Thats it.

 

 
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Posted: #4271
Steve Smith > Religion
 
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Posted: #4272
Quote Originally Posted by KittyKatz286:


But that doesn't make us not allowed to believe everyone should be equal. We all know that that simply isn't gonna happen. Everyone is certainly not gonna treat everyone the same. That doesn't mean we can't strive for that. Nor does it contradict with the belief that life is meaningless.

 

But that's the point I think Rostos is trying to make even though I don't think he understands what your saying.

If everyone believed what you believe than society would be fucked.  Religion was invented to stop people from murdering, raping, stealing etc because there was no legal system or cops. 

Simple question Kitty. 

If everyone thought life is meaningless would society benefit?  Would the human race advance?  Would the world be a better place? 

 

 
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Posted: #4273
Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

In your view, morals are relative, in my view they are absolute.

I can look at your view on homosexuality and say it is wrong because i believe in the bible and it says so.

The only response you can have is, i dont believe God exists, i dont believe the bible, therefore, in my eyes, this topic is no different to chocolate being better than vanilla, why bother even talking about it from YOUR VIEW? There isnt any at all.

You have no reason at all to argue if homosexual is right or wrong, none, it is just one view against another......

Wether murdering babies, raping little girls , shitting on little boys faces, feeding the poor, bashing gays, curing diseases are neither right or wrong in your world, yet you have been arguing with me about my view that my view on gays is wrong?

What you say and how you have been acting are in contradiction to each other......

Its like a post a thread and say "all gays should be bashed and murdered", then you enter and say that is wrong for you to say that??

All what you can say is, "that is your view, you are neither right or wrong"

Thats it.

 



And you still haven't learned a thing...  APPEAL TO MOTIVE
 
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Posted: #4274
"But saying the solider is stupid does not mean he is stupid in general. He is stupid for a specific reason. That reason is that he is giving up his own life for others. I personally do not believe in this type of conduct. I would not value someone else's life over mine. So I am not focusing on the selfless act that he performed regarding the compassion he showed for others. I am referring to his decision to give up his own life".
_______________________________________________________

I think I'm a reasonably intelligent college educated man. This statement here does show contradiction. How is giving up your life for others a stupid decision?  Our  great young American men and women in the service give up their lives everyday for us. How is that stupid?  The great Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. said that "if a man can't find something worth dying for then his life isn't fit to live."  It's never stupid to give up your life for others. Like I have eluded to earlier there are things that I have done and risked my life for people I would never know. I don't consider myself stupid. I have been involved in numerous operations where I have been shot at more times than I care to remember. I have actually been shot twice while performing these operations. I can't get into specifics but believe me when I tell you I didn't consider myself stupid and my team didn't consider me stupid. On the contrary I have been seen as a hero. But I don't consider myself a hero at all. I'm just a man doing what he feels is right.  I would die for my country, my family, my friends  and strangers I don't know. You guys consider it stupid because for you life ends here. But for the real scientists who know that energy can't be destroyed they know that life doesn't end here. So while you see it all as stupid and meaningless. I see meaningful, and productive life on this planet. 
When you are the under the power of the ego and all it's lies this is just another manifestation of the lies the ego has built for you.  You're trapped in a world of your own making. You seem to be reasonably intelligent but you have lost your soul in the process and have become hostage to your own intellect. You have allowed atheism to steal everything from you and now you feel hopeless and meaningless. It's like being in love with a beautiful woman but you're still lonely. Atheism gives you exactly what you say it does...Nothing absolutely nothing and it's all meaningless. I choose to lead a meaningful life and if I should die tonight so be it. I move on to the next episode confident that my spirit the real me is prepared for the next world.  


 
 
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Posted: #4275
Quote Originally Posted by 165yds:

But that's the point I think Rostos is trying to make even though I don't think he understands what your saying.

If everyone believed what you believe than society would be fucked.  Religion was invented to stop people from murdering, raping, stealing etc because there was no legal system or cops. 

Simple question Kitty. 

If everyone thought life is meaningless would society benefit?  Would the human race advance?  Would the world be a better place? 

 



Well, this we can't possibly know.  It has improved my life because I know I must enjoy this life because it is all I have.  I'm sure if society all found out at once that life was meaningless, there would be chaos, but if they were brought up thinking this way and were told to enjoy life, I wonder what the result would be.
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