I also hope, that personally, you will not be led into some kind of religious zeal of theism or anti-theism, but into a genuine reflection of reality itself; the futility of mankind, the realization of ominous oblivion and the hope and faith in salvation.

Religion does nothing for anybody. Faith and Truth are all that matters.

Kittykat,

Continued...

System,

SYSTEM,

I call the "system of beliefs held by an individual" a religion. Call it "philosophy" if that term is easier for your conscience to accept. Nonetheless your "philosophy" is incoherent. It would be better for you to examine the logic within your mind and challenge them, then to conservatively keep them and irrationally reject anything else anyone says otherwise.

As for babies, they most certainly can hold a belief. In logic, a belief is a premise -- something that is held with logical value (true or false). I'm sure a baby can believe that it is in pain. I'm sure a baby can believe that it is looking at his/her mother. I'm sure a baby can realize the "I am" nature of themselves. I'm sure a baby can realize that they have control over certain aspects of their person. Etc. I think you have a much heavier burden of proof than you initially perceived. Anything with sentience most certainly can hold belief.

As for your assumptions, I will repeat, they are erroneous. You have not proven how life is a test, neither within or outside Christianity. The reality is life is just that, life. Once you come to grips with that, then Christianity can begin to be fully understood. Until you reject your "philosophy" you may never be able to understand Christianity. It would be quite intellectually dishonest for you to ever refuse to understanding a worldview, whilst you 'claim' to wholeheartedly reject it.

So we should all believe something can come from nothing?

The response from system re-inforces it

You know, the lack of evidence supporting your atheism is astounding given statements such as this. You are quite lucky that none of us take the atheistic view as anything intellectually serious, else we would demand of you logic and reason, evidence and proof concerning this atheism of yours.

If, however, you believe atheism to be a rational view along with the rest of 'philosophy' then you should be itching to logically prove your case with evidence to shut us all up, right? I wonder why you haven't done that... But atheism is just a kind of anti-intellectualism, designed to keep a person not thinking about theological philosophy and sciences. The more ignorant a man is, the further away he is from truth.

The ONLY way to quench a mans thirst is water

The ONLY way for man to  experience ultimate joy is through God. Nothing on earth can satisfy mans ultimate joy.

I guess Rostos. Try figuring that one out???

And?

The House of David

Recent archeological investigations have demolished the position of those who rejected the biblical account of Israel's kings such as King David. In 1993, archeologists digging at Tel Dan in the Galilee in northern Israel found a fragment of a stone inscription that clearly refers to the "house of David"ÿand identifies David as the "king of Israel." This is the first inscription outside the Bible that confirms the Bible's statement that David was the king of Israel in the ninth century before Christ. Many Bible critics who had rejected King David as a myth were upset to discover their position could no longer be defended. Some critics suggested that the fragment was a "fake." The following summer, two additional fragments of the original inscription were found that provided scholars with the whole inscription, confirming that it referred to David as king of Israel. Furthermore, another scholar, Andre Lemaire from the College de France, discovered another ninth century B.C. stone inscription created by King Mesha of Moab that also referred to "the House of David." These incredible inscriptions, recorded a century after David's death, confirm that David was king of Israel at the time the Bible stated and that he established a dynasty, the "House of David"ÿas the Scriptures said.
A stone inscription from Egypt confirms that Israel was established as a nation in Canaan centuries before the reign of King David, just as the Bible claims. The Merneptah Stela is a seven-and-a-half-foot-high stone inscription discovered in the temple of Pharaoh Merneptah at Thebes in Egypt. Scholars determined that Pharaoh Merneptah ruled Egypt from 1213 to 1203 B.C. and confirmed that he launched an invasion into the area of the modern-day West Bank in Canaan, defeating the Jewish inhabitants of the land. The second line from the bottom of this inscriptions boasts, "Israel is laid waste; his seed is not."

Critics of the Bible have claimed for decades that the Bible's statements in Joshua about the conquest of the Promised Land in the centuries before the monarchy of King David were pure fiction. Obviously, the king of Egypt would not need to invade Canaan with an army unless the person had established a significant presence on the frontiers of the Egyptian Empire. In light of this new archeological evidence critics will be forced to relinquish their rejection of the Bible's record of Israel's conquest as stated by Joshua. Critics claimed that the books of Samuel, Kings, and Chronicles were recorded by person living in Persia centuries after the events occurred. They suggest that such records contain numerous errors and myths. However, the Bible claims these books were written at the time of the events and that God's Holy Spirit inspired the writers to correctly record the events. When you compare the Word of God to the accuracy of the ancient historians such as Herodotus, you can quickly see that most ancient histories were nothing more than creative fiction and records of hearsay evidence without careful research or checking of facts. In stark contrast, the Bible is extremely careful and accurate as to events, chronology, sequence, and personalities.

In addition to the archeological evidence for King David, we now have confirmation of other kings of Israel. The name of Omri, king of Israel, is recorded on an inscription known as the Stela of King Mesha of Moab. In addition, Omri's name appears on the rock inscriptions of three kings of Assyria, the annals of both Tiglath-Pileser III and Sargon II, and the Black Obelisk of King Shalmaneser III, who wrote, "I conquered . . . all of the Land of Omri (Israel)." Other Assyrian inscriptions found in Nineveh confirm the Bible's records about these kings of Israel: Ahab, Jehu, Joash, Menehem, Pekah, and Hoshea. In addition, the names of many of the kings of the southern kingdom of Judah are also recorded on inscriptions of the nations that fought against the person. The inscriptions found by archeologists also confirm the names of these kings of Judah: Ahaziah, Uzziah, Ahaz, Hezekiah, Manasseh, and Jehoiachin. Scholars found ration records of the army of Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon (606 to 562 B.C.) that state, "ten sila of oil to Jehoiachin, king of Judah. . . ." Obviously, the fact that these foreign nations listed the kings of Israel and Judah provides the strongest evidence confirming the accuracy of the Word of God.

In 1846, the explorer Austen Henry Layard discovered an incredible Black Obelisk in the ruins of Nimrud (present-day Iraq), the ancient capital of the great Assyrian Empire that conquered the northern kingdom of Israel. This six-and-a-half-feet-high Black Obelisk, a four-sided stone inscription, recorded the conquest of the Assyrian King Shalmaneser II over numerous foreign kingdoms including King Jehu of Israel (approximately 841 to 814 B.C.). A detailed examination of the obelisk reveals King Jehu bowing down in obedience to the Assyrian king. The obelisk refers to Jehu as the "son of Omri" indicating their awareness that his dynasty traced back to Omri in confirmation of the Book of Kings.

The Walls of Jericho

During excavations of Jericho between 1930 and 1936, Professor John Garstang found one of the most incredible confirmations of the biblical record about the conquest of the Promised Land. The results were so amazing that he took the precaution of preparing a written declaration of the archeological discovery, signed by himself and two other members of his team. "As to the main fact, then, there remains no doubt: the walls fell outwards so completely that the attackers would be able to clamber up and over their ruins into the city." This fact is important because the evidence from all other archeological digs around ancient cities in the Middle East reveal that walls of cities always fall inwards as invading armies push their way into a city. However, in the account in Joshua 6:20, we read, "the wall fell down flat, so that the people went up into the city every man straight ahead, and they took the city." Only the supernatural power of God could have caused the walls to fall outward as described in Joshua's account of the conquest of Jericho (John Garstang, Joshua Judges, [London: Constable, 1931]).

Following the fall of East Jerusalem to the Jordanians in the 1948 War of Independence, the Jordanian army dynamited Jewish synagogues and other buildings in the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem in the years following their conquering of the Old City. Nevertheless, this wanton destruction over a twenty-year period, until Jerusalem was liberated during the 1967 Six Day War, created a unique archeological opportunity. When the person recaptured the Jewish Quarter in 1967 they had to rebuild every building because of the Jordanian destruction. However, this made it possible for Israeli archeologists to remove the rubble built up over the last two thousand years and explore the bedrock of this fascinating biblical city. This was a unique opportunity because the existing modern buildings in most ancient cities prevent large archeological exploration. In addition to numerous discoveries confirming the accuracy of many passages in the Bible, the scholars, under the leadership of the archeologist Nahman Avigad of Hebrew University, found the remains of the wall of King Hezekiah built when the Assyrian army attacked Israel in 701 B.C. The Bible tells us that King Hezekiah built the walls of Jerusalem to resist the Assyrian armies: "And when Hezekiah saw that Sennacherib was come, and that he was purposed to fight against Jerusalem, He took counsel with his princes . . . they did help him. Also he strengthened himself, and built up all the wall that was broken, and raised it up to the towers, and another wall without" (2 Chronicles 32:2-5). The archeologists found that portions of the wall actually cut through walls of recently built houses, indicating the urgency of the defensive actions and the authority of the king. This is confirmed in the Bible's own account, "And ye have numbered the houses of Jerusalem, and the houses have ye broken down to fortify the wall" (Isaiah 22:10).

Dr. Millar Burrows, a professor at Yale University, studied the evidence that indicates the historicity of Abraham and the other patriarchs of Israel as recorded in Genesis. "Everything indicates that here we have an historical individual. As noted above, he is not mentioned in any known archaeological source, but his name appears in Babylonia as a personal name in the very period to which he belongs" (Millar Burrows, What Mean These Stones?, [New York: Meridian Books, 1956], pp. 258-259). Burrows wrote about the underlying reason most scholars reject the authority of the Bible, "The excessive skepticism of many liberal theologians stems not from a careful evaluation of the available data, but from an enormous predisposition against the supernatural. . . . On the whole, however, archaeological work has unquestionably strengthened confidence in the reliability of the scriptural record."

Archsage - You are by far the most enjoyable person to have this debate with, and I will respond to your posts...but first...ROSTOS SHUT THE FUCK UP. SOMETHING CANNOT COME FROM NOTHING. SHUT UP YOU STUPID HYPOCRITICAL FUCK. YOU BELIEVE GOD CAME FROM NOTHING. STOP IT. YOU'RE FUCKING ANNOYING AND DELUSIONAL. Ok sorry Archsage...back to civilized debates...

There are 2 pieces of  archeological evidence and there are pictures that go with them.

KittyKatz - Post 568

"Something CAN come from nothing. It's a fact now. It's been PROVEN. 100% certainty"

Yeah something can...it was proven. It is possible. I was just pointing out your hypocrisy.

KittyKat, 

\

I am just going to go home from work now, sit in my room and wait for $100 bills to pop from thin air..

Oh wait, $100 bills are complex enough....

ONLY UNIVERSES can come into existence from nothing......

I don't like when people join the discussion let and the post erroneous information that supports the opposite conclusion of what they think. I enjoy it even less when I've already established that the alternate conclusion is true and why.

Like something can come from nothing?