Quote Originally Posted by KittyKatz286:
Archsage...I respect the fact that you try to ground your arguments in fact as well. I think my problem here is that I know the bible is a book of stories, or at least part of it is. There are things discussed in the bible that can't possibly be true. Therefore, I do not accept it as a source of evidence. That pretty much renders any argument a Christian can make, irrelevant. So, from that regard, I apologize, because it makes it really difficult to be on the side you're on. So I try to avoid things that rely on the bible, but somehow it always comes back to it.
If you don't want to give the Bible any special precedence then that's fine. Treat it, at least, as any other secular historical documents found from around those times. Nonetheless, it isn't the Scriptures that is important, but the message behind them. Luckily, Christianity is not Bible-worship (as some idolatrous Christians love to do), but as Jesus Himself said, "the [Scriptures] are talking about me". Worship of the book over reality itself is part of the reasons why the Pharisees, who were very
religious, were rejected by God.
Instead of focusing on the Bible as 'evidence' let's look at it only as a collection of Law, Prophecy, History, Poems, Proverbs, Songs, News, Doctrine, Letters and Allusion written by various people from paupers to kings over the course of a thousand years, collected and manifested into a single volume used as a convenient source of literature concerning a common message.
With that in mind, we can examine any part of the Scriptures that trouble you, or anything, while not rejecting the work as a whole because of a single sentence or two is disagreeable with you. Hopefully you'll find that approach much more rational. And, because the Scriptures are, in fact, coherent (at least in the common message portrayed) you'll find the initial disagreement to be more of a misconception than anything.
I don't expect to force you to read this entire post, it is pretty long, however it is good for you to read it all, as each paragraph has good information. If you are pressed for time, you can start reading from here.I suppose the best way to begin however is how Genesis began, not with any arguments for the existence of God, but a plain display of the nature of mankind, and it's overall fate. In that way, we can start with a few points:
- Everybody, being repercussions of "Adam" (or, if you reject the term "Adam", just note that we are naturally copies of the same type of entity, Humans), are innately sinful -- our volition is naturally out of sync with "God" (if you reject the term "God", then just replace the word, Perfection).
- Everybody has sinned (does something wrong).
- No one lives forever. Even this Universe, which is vast and grand, is poised to either expand into oblivion, or re-collapse into singularity. Ultimately, there is nothing for us but death in the end.
A piece of Scripture to keep in mind,
Genesis 3:19 NKJV19 In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread
Till you return to the ground,
For out of it you were taken;
For dust you
are, And to dust you shall return.”
This is, of course, just the beginning. There is much more than this 'gloom and doom' of course. Else reality would be a very depressing place! Anyway, if you're with me, say so. If there's something confusing or something wrong with what I said, just let me know and we can go over it. Just don't ignore it, as that would be dishonest of you.
better? 
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