This only proves people will die for their beliefs. A willingness to die for ones beliefs does not prove the fact of those same beliefs.
In the case of the eleven disciples of Jesus, they just didn't simply die for a belief, it was much more than that, they died for what they knew was the truth.
All eleven disciples were first-hand witnesses to all His miracles and His resurrection from the dead. His resurrection was the final miracle that thoroughly had all of them convinced that He indeed was the Son of God.
(Note: Initially there were twelve disciples but Judas the traitor is not among them after the resurrection)
After His resurrection and meeting His disciples in Galilee He told them, "I have been given all authority in heaven and on earth. Therefore, go and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. Teach these new disciples to obey all the commands I have given you. And be sure of this: I am with you always, even to the end of the age" (Matt. 28:18-20).
From that point on they weren't afraid for their own lives, they were first-hand witnesses to the truth and not by someone telling them the truth and believing it then putting their lives in danger for a belief...no..but rather they put their lives in danger for the truth....there is a huge difference here.
So they went out and spread the Gospel. (the Good News) They all died as martyrs, most of them crucified for spreading the truth as first-hand witnesses.
I tell you the truth, if I was one of them after witnessing the truth, I would have done the same as they did...wouldn't anyone?...wouldn't you?
And so now I'm a disciple of Jesus Christ our Lord Savior, a believer in the Christian faith.
Today there are approx. little over 2 billion Christians, a little over one-third of the world's population...my...my...what a fine job the initial disciples of Jesus, the first-hand witnesses to the truth, have done!!
Quote Originally Posted by jagerfury:
This only proves people will die for their beliefs. A willingness to die for ones beliefs does not prove the fact of those same beliefs.
In the case of the eleven disciples of Jesus, they just didn't simply die for a belief, it was much more than that, they died for what they knew was the truth.
All eleven disciples were first-hand witnesses to all His miracles and His resurrection from the dead. His resurrection was the final miracle that thoroughly had all of them convinced that He indeed was the Son of God.
(Note: Initially there were twelve disciples but Judas the traitor is not among them after the resurrection)
After His resurrection and meeting His disciples in Galilee He told them, "I have been given all authority in heaven and on earth. Therefore, go and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. Teach these new disciples to obey all the commands I have given you. And be sure of this: I am with you always, even to the end of the age" (Matt. 28:18-20).
From that point on they weren't afraid for their own lives, they were first-hand witnesses to the truth and not by someone telling them the truth and believing it then putting their lives in danger for a belief...no..but rather they put their lives in danger for the truth....there is a huge difference here.
So they went out and spread the Gospel. (the Good News) They all died as martyrs, most of them crucified for spreading the truth as first-hand witnesses.
I tell you the truth, if I was one of them after witnessing the truth, I would have done the same as they did...wouldn't anyone?...wouldn't you?
And so now I'm a disciple of Jesus Christ our Lord Savior, a believer in the Christian faith.
Today there are approx. little over 2 billion Christians, a little over one-third of the world's population...my...my...what a fine job the initial disciples of Jesus, the first-hand witnesses to the truth, have done!!
So they went out and spread the Gospel. (the Good News) They all died as martyrs, most of them crucified for spreading the truth as first-hand witnesses.
I tell you the truth, if I was one of them after witnessing the truth, I would have done the same as they did...wouldn't anyone?...wouldn't you?
And so now I'm a disciple of Jesus Christ our Lord Savior, a believer in the Christian faith.
You do realize when you use the bible as your source of evidence for the truth of what it says in that same said bible this fails all elementary, and minimal requirements for proof? That it is a total illogical statement? I'm not saying you can't make it, believe it, whatever..., but if you have some rationing sense we should be able to find common ground in that whatever your belief; using your belief as proof of the truth of whatever belief it is not proof in the real sense as used to validate the truth of something in the every day world in which we live in. If you smoke you increase the risk of getting cancer, true. If you believe in the bible this proves the bible is right, not true. It is just a belief. Right. You go that far, no?
I'd rather be playing D&D.
Quote Originally Posted by SirJohnDrake:
So they went out and spread the Gospel. (the Good News) They all died as martyrs, most of them crucified for spreading the truth as first-hand witnesses.
I tell you the truth, if I was one of them after witnessing the truth, I would have done the same as they did...wouldn't anyone?...wouldn't you?
And so now I'm a disciple of Jesus Christ our Lord Savior, a believer in the Christian faith.
You do realize when you use the bible as your source of evidence for the truth of what it says in that same said bible this fails all elementary, and minimal requirements for proof? That it is a total illogical statement? I'm not saying you can't make it, believe it, whatever..., but if you have some rationing sense we should be able to find common ground in that whatever your belief; using your belief as proof of the truth of whatever belief it is not proof in the real sense as used to validate the truth of something in the every day world in which we live in. If you smoke you increase the risk of getting cancer, true. If you believe in the bible this proves the bible is right, not true. It is just a belief. Right. You go that far, no?
In the case of the eleven disciples of Jesus, they just didn't simply die for a belief, it was much more than that, they died for what they knew was the truth.
All eleven disciples were first-hand witnesses to all His miracles and His resurrection from the dead. His resurrection was the final miracle that thoroughly had all of them convinced that He indeed was the Son of God.
(Note: Initially there were twelve disciples but Judas the traitor is not among them after the resurrection)
After His resurrection and meeting His disciples in Galilee He told them, "I have been given all authority in heaven and on earth. Therefore, go and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. Teach these new disciples to obey all the commands I have given you. And be sure of this: I am with you always, even to the end of the age" (Matt. 28:18-20).
From that point on they weren't afraid for their own lives, they were first-hand witnesses to the truth and not by someone telling them the truth and believing it then putting their lives in danger for a belief...no..but rather they put their lives in danger for the truth....there is a huge difference here.
So they went out and spread the Gospel. (the Good News) They all died as martyrs, most of them crucified for spreading the truth as first-hand witnesses.
I tell you the truth, if I was one of them after witnessing the truth, I would have done the same as they did...wouldn't anyone?...wouldn't you?
And so now I'm a disciple of Jesus Christ our Lord Savior, a believer in the Christian faith.
Today there are approx. little over 2 billion Christians, a little over one-third of the world's population...my...my...what a fine job the initial disciples of Jesus, the first-hand witnesses to the truth, have done!!
drake nice post but there is strong belief john who wrote revelation(we think he wrote not totally acsertained it was disciple john) exiled a normal death on a greek island
Quote Originally Posted by SirJohnDrake:
In the case of the eleven disciples of Jesus, they just didn't simply die for a belief, it was much more than that, they died for what they knew was the truth.
All eleven disciples were first-hand witnesses to all His miracles and His resurrection from the dead. His resurrection was the final miracle that thoroughly had all of them convinced that He indeed was the Son of God.
(Note: Initially there were twelve disciples but Judas the traitor is not among them after the resurrection)
After His resurrection and meeting His disciples in Galilee He told them, "I have been given all authority in heaven and on earth. Therefore, go and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. Teach these new disciples to obey all the commands I have given you. And be sure of this: I am with you always, even to the end of the age" (Matt. 28:18-20).
From that point on they weren't afraid for their own lives, they were first-hand witnesses to the truth and not by someone telling them the truth and believing it then putting their lives in danger for a belief...no..but rather they put their lives in danger for the truth....there is a huge difference here.
So they went out and spread the Gospel. (the Good News) They all died as martyrs, most of them crucified for spreading the truth as first-hand witnesses.
I tell you the truth, if I was one of them after witnessing the truth, I would have done the same as they did...wouldn't anyone?...wouldn't you?
And so now I'm a disciple of Jesus Christ our Lord Savior, a believer in the Christian faith.
Today there are approx. little over 2 billion Christians, a little over one-third of the world's population...my...my...what a fine job the initial disciples of Jesus, the first-hand witnesses to the truth, have done!!
drake nice post but there is strong belief john who wrote revelation(we think he wrote not totally acsertained it was disciple john) exiled a normal death on a greek island
Respecting the symbolism i can understand that. But to make a cross as the symbol.... tool of execution as a symbol. Hard to understand for me as a non christian/catholic. That's all.
chimpo the cross to be worshiped it is very appropriate the cross ymbolic for so many things many joyful despite the tortuous perceptions it can reasonably exault. dude its the most important symbol this world will ever know
Quote Originally Posted by Chimpo:
Respecting the symbolism i can understand that. But to make a cross as the symbol.... tool of execution as a symbol. Hard to understand for me as a non christian/catholic. That's all.
chimpo the cross to be worshiped it is very appropriate the cross ymbolic for so many things many joyful despite the tortuous perceptions it can reasonably exault. dude its the most important symbol this world will ever know
You do realize when you use the bible as your source of evidence for the truth of what it says in that same said bible this fails all elementary, and minimal requirements for proof? Such as? That it is a total illogical statement? Such as? I'm not saying you can't make it, believe it, whatever..., but if you have some rationing sense we should be able to find common ground in that whatever your belief; using your belief as proof of the truth of whatever belief it is not proof in the real sense as used to validate the truth of something in the every day world in which we live in.Prove that the bible is NOT the truth? If you smoke you increase the risk of getting cancer, true. If you believe in the bible this proves the bible is right, not true. It is just a belief. Right. You go that far, no?
What on earth are you talking about?
Quote Originally Posted by jagerfury:
You do realize when you use the bible as your source of evidence for the truth of what it says in that same said bible this fails all elementary, and minimal requirements for proof? Such as? That it is a total illogical statement? Such as? I'm not saying you can't make it, believe it, whatever..., but if you have some rationing sense we should be able to find common ground in that whatever your belief; using your belief as proof of the truth of whatever belief it is not proof in the real sense as used to validate the truth of something in the every day world in which we live in.Prove that the bible is NOT the truth? If you smoke you increase the risk of getting cancer, true. If you believe in the bible this proves the bible is right, not true. It is just a belief. Right. You go that far, no?
every chrisian should read lukes acts if they dont they have no solid foundation how we as christinans especially catholics got started it would be like studying american american hsitory and stopping when the british surrendered.
secondly every aetheist or agnostic should read cs lewis "mere christianity". it addresses the intellects who reject the existance of god because of the lack of visble proof per say.lewis was a genius and former aetheist.
thirdly the rest of you who discount god and christ just because ill pray for you you will need it. you guys are the biggest gamblers on the planet and on the right web for sure and you better hope you picked the right side.
every chrisian should read lukes acts if they dont they have no solid foundation how we as christinans especially catholics got started it would be like studying american american hsitory and stopping when the british surrendered.
secondly every aetheist or agnostic should read cs lewis "mere christianity". it addresses the intellects who reject the existance of god because of the lack of visble proof per say.lewis was a genius and former aetheist.
thirdly the rest of you who discount god and christ just because ill pray for you you will need it. you guys are the biggest gamblers on the planet and on the right web for sure and you better hope you picked the right side.
you are dismissing 3,000 other believed gods and the other just about infinite number of possibilities.. and putting it 'all in' on these schmucks... hope you guessed right.
uhhhhhh you're gambling too, moron...
you are dismissing 3,000 other believed gods and the other just about infinite number of possibilities.. and putting it 'all in' on these schmucks... hope you guessed right.
you are dismissing 3,000 other believed gods and the other just about infinite number of possibilities.. and putting it 'all in' on these schmucks... hope you guessed right.
jason actually im not gambling.if im right im feeling sorry for you if you are right so fucking what we both just end the same im not punished for being wrong. whats your upside there sport?
Quote Originally Posted by JasonBay:
uhhhhhh you're gambling too, moron...
you are dismissing 3,000 other believed gods and the other just about infinite number of possibilities.. and putting it 'all in' on these schmucks... hope you guessed right.
jason actually im not gambling.if im right im feeling sorry for you if you are right so fucking what we both just end the same im not punished for being wrong. whats your upside there sport?
oh and if those pieces of shit you worship did exist, I wouldn't worship them anyway.. (try reading the book and see what a fucking maniac you worship) so no loss to me.
oh and if those pieces of shit you worship did exist, I wouldn't worship them anyway.. (try reading the book and see what a fucking maniac you worship) so no loss to me.
oh and if those pieces of shit you worship did exist, I wouldn't worship them anyway.. (try reading the book and see what a fucking maniac you worship) so no loss to me.
jason what maniac are you referring too?
Quote Originally Posted by JasonBay:
oh and if those pieces of shit you worship did exist, I wouldn't worship them anyway.. (try reading the book and see what a fucking maniac you worship) so no loss to me.
what maniac? oh i don't know... maybe the one that your book of fairytales claims killed 2+ million people with an estimated 20 million more.. yup. that's yahweh, your 'loving' skydaddy.
what maniac? oh i don't know... maybe the one that your book of fairytales claims killed 2+ million people with an estimated 20 million more.. yup. that's yahweh, your 'loving' skydaddy.
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