Global warming :: is it just a 'chinese hoax' like trump told us or is it serious?

Pew research found that 63% of democrats consider climate change a serious issue compared to 16% of republicans.  Nowadays deniers have largely moved to delaying or blocking government action to fight climate change.  A common refrain among republicans is that it would be foolish for the US to reduce carbon emissions unless other countries do the same.    The fact that other countries aren't doing enough doesn't mean US should do less.  Accounting for historical emissions, China is responsible for 13% globally which is half of US cumulative emissions.  OECD countries produced 4 times more carbon emissions than China. 

It just goes with the pattern of things third , it’s really not that surprising , in fact it’s quite common brother 

Republicans say it would be foolish to reduce carbon emissions until other countries do the same right ?

It’s always tit for tat with people .

Same in this country , the world , and this forum . Instead of actually making a change people are inclined to simply point out the shenanigans and the faults of others and find that to be their excuse to continue on their merry way of doing things status quo style .

That’s wrong dude .

Like when the Republicans here in this forum badger the Democrats on certain points and the replies from the Donkey side is to simply focus on examples showcasing the Elephants’ dirty butthole tactics or evil doings .

And Vice Versa …..

“ Hey we might be dirty but so are you , and this is why you’re worse …. “

Yadda yadda yadda …….

That’s the most frequent course of responses from both sides when they become involved in discourse . The issue or subject that’s being discussed becomes irrelevant and thrown to the side , playing second fiddle to the mud slinging and name calling .

Now I ask you third , when will that stop ?

Who will have the giant hairy balls necessary to “ Man Up “ and not spew that useless form of communication ?

Who ? And when will it happen ? Who will be able to battle through that most ignorant and primitive of tactics ?

I wonder brother . I Wonder . I also wonder why you park in a driveway but drive on a parkway . But that’s a story for another day my man , cuz I don’t want to lose focus on the task at hand .

Have a nice day sir 

The oil and gas industry is emitting way more of this potent, planet-warming gas than the EPA has estimated, study shows

CNN —

Planet-warming methane pollution from the US oil and gas industry was 70% higher than the Environmental Protection Agency’s own estimates between 2010 and 2019, scientists reported Monday.

Several recent studies have shown similar results, and scientists now say the EPA needs to leverage new technology to get a fuller picture of how much of this potent greenhouse gas is escaping into the atmosphere and hold companies accountable for the leaks.

Methane, the main component of natural gas and a byproduct of fossil fuel drilling, has more than 80 times the warming power of carbon dioxide in the first two decades it’s in the atmosphere. The oil and gas industry is the main source of global methane emissions, according to the International Energy Agency. Levels have risen precipitously in recent years, and scientists are looking at the gas as a target to cut climate emissions quickly because it has such a powerful warming effect.

@spockgato

 So we have an entire spectrum of folks with opinions of climate change. On one end you have folks gluing themselves to art work, slashing SUV tires, screaming the world will end. The Right Wingers point them out  and laugh and claim thats the face of the Left.

On the other end you have folks who say there is no climate change, all a hoax.  The Left Wingers point them out  and laugh and claim thats the face of the Right.

In reality both these groups are but a small minority. The majority are somewhere in between. 

IMO; I look at data provided by NASA and I see the temps and the oceans have been on a steady rise since 1900. In the late 40's and into the 70's I see a lull and then it returns to the same rise. Since about 2000 the rise is a little faster. World population has increased from 2 billion in 1927 to 8 billion now. Add to that China going from a third world country to a super power of 1.4 billion people and it's no wonder things are changing. What happens if India becomes a world power? So if we (US) went stoneage right now, wouldn't matter.

Sooooo, either we get serious and leave the politics behind or we continue down, what I see, as the bullshit path we're on. 

Solar and wind are great additions but no answer. Nuclear Power and Fusion Power is the future. Electric cars are ok, but what happens when they're all electric? The rare earth metals (lithium) have a limited supply. We need to advance our technology. Electric cars and semi's are heavier, more damage to roads especially in the frost belt areas. And we have to transition without weakening ourselves.

And my question is; How does the earth react to this imbalance? Should not carbon absorbing plants fluorish? Would they begin to offset the overabundance of carbon? 

Unfortunately I do not trust the scientific community. Too many obvious bullshit stories in their history. According to some the Statue of Liberty should need a snorkel by now. The Great Lakes dropped in 2014, Climate Change! , rose high in 2019, Climate Change! This all bullshit. Records since 1912 show this recent pattern in the late 1920's and again in the 1960's.

Two low pressure systems collide often throughout time but now we call them BOMB CYCLONES!! A line of concentrated rain is now ATMOSPHERIC RIVER!! 

Could go on and on about how everything is sensationalized.

So now we're into an El Nino, OMG going to get bad now!!! Let's see shall we?

El Nino usually means less Atlantic hurricanes so that's good. 

I have been tracking mid-Michigan avg temps. Have numbers from 1973-present, 51 years now. March avg was 22nd on the list, several yrs in the 1970's the month was warmer. April was 9th for all Aprils since 1973. Only 1985 was a warmer April. Will see what May brings.

And the effects are accelerating faster than realized.....although that conflicts with the "Chinese hoax" theory  

Effects of global warming are already here.  For example, wildfire smoke from Canada worsening air quality in New York.  Insurance companies are refusing new customers in areas vulnerable to climate change when costs and risks are expected to become too great.  For examples, California and Florida.  Insurance industry is a good indicator of long term risks.  In the future, more areas may become uninsurable.  As planet heats up, some large population countries might become more vulnerable.  For examples, India, Pakistan, Brazil, Mexico and Indonesia.

May for mid Michigan rates as 23rd in last 51 years of data. 1975, 1977, 1982, 1985, 1987, and 1988 all warmer months of May than this year.

Ah yes, New York in a haze. Better milk that for all you can get. Nevermind the Journal of Geophysical Research has a book out that says; 

Fire has been a dominant disturbance regime in Canadian forests since the last Ice Age.

Nevermind 1981 saw 6 million hectares burn, 7.5 million in 1989, and 7.4 million in 1995. This year we are at about 3.5 million hectares so far. Since satelite data only goes back to the 70's I am sure SINCE THE LAST ICE AGE is an accurate term.

And State Farm leaving California. How many NATIONAL BRANDS left Florida?? Bunch a little guys it seems.

And what did State Farm actually say?? 

State Farm General Insurance Company made this decision due to historic increases in construction costs outpacing inflation, rapidly growing catastrophe exposure, and a challenging reinsurance market.

So how do lefties interpet this? CLIMATE CHANGE, WILDFIRES.

How do righties see it? OVER REGULATION, POOR FORESTRY. 

And it's all of the above. (Wait til the next major earthquake hits) 

And car insurance companies are leaving California. Why? Costs are skyrocketing and rate increases are not being approved by THE GOVERNMENT.

@UNIMAN

@thirdperson

@fubah2

 Those with an open mind acknowledge the acceleration due to human activity.

Reasonable piece of news; https://www.yahoo.com/news/wildfires-canada-cause-explanation-climate-change-005844098.html

Kent Moore, Professor of Physics at the University of Toronto, says forest fires are regular occurrences, particularly in the west.

Quebec is experiencing a similar situation, with dry climate leading to more fires. As a result, Moore doesn’t believe the fires in the eastern provinces are a direct result of climate change, but rather a dry season.

@UNIMAN

 "I have zero empathy for D.C. politicians complaining about the smoke. If you won’t allow us to responsibly manage forests, you should have to deal with the consequences just like we do in the West,"

In Canada, weather is the top reason for wildfires with lightning strikes and human errors responsible for most areas burnt.  Many scientists say wildfires are becoming bigger or more frequent as forests worldwide increasingly dry out as global warming worsens.  Although effects are impossible to ignore, Fox news is still downplaying link to climate crisis, ignoring health hazards and peddling pro-logging.

@thirdperson

 We have been over this on here before.  You are leaving out pertinent information -- lack of forest management.  Of course when it is hot and dry fires are worse.  But you assume, and want others to as well, that the hot and dry part is human-related.

So, instead of doing what we know can manage the fires to an extent Leftists want to 'manage' something that is absolutely not proven to be the underlying cause.  Yes, climate change will make it hotter and drier, just as it will make it colder and wetter -- through natural cycles; not through human-caused climate change. 

Look at a graph and you will see natural trends of longterm ups and downs.  You will also see big drop-offs in some years.  But while the climate is trending we can do what we know will immediately help -- we just do not.

For example:

https://mylandplan.org/content/facts-about-fire

Fires happen when ignition (from a lightning strike or a careless bonfire, for example) meets available fuel (such as dry vegetation), and warm, dry air fans the flames.

That’s why the fire season tends to coincide with high temperatures and dry conditions. In the eastern U.S., fire season lasts from March through May, while the West sees most of its fire activity from June through October. 

Fires are an important and necessary part of the lifecycle for many different kinds of ecosystems. For as long as forests and grasslands have grown on earth, fires have burned them. In fact, some tree species, like lodgepole pines and aspens, need fire to stimulate their growth.

Fires have also been used by people as a way to manage lands, whether to clear land for farming, get rid of unwanted pests, or to restore nutrients to the soil.

In the United States, fires were often used by American Indians and early European settlers to reshape their environment. But in the early 1900s, people began to worry about fire’s effects on their land and decided that preventing and suppressing all fires was the best way to protect their forests.

Suppression stayed the preferred policy well into the 1980s—remember Smokey Bear?—and it changed the nation’s forests. Without the natural cycle of burning and growth, forests grew very dense. Experts think that overgrown forests (which translate into lots of available fuel), higher temperatures and dry conditions have created wildfires that burn bigger and hotter than before—sometimes so big and hot that they damage forests instead of helping them.

Now most foresters and landowners accept frequent fire as part of a healthy forest. They carefully allow or even start controlled burns to manage natural areas and reduce the risk of out-of-control, devastating fires.

Well I did some research. Wildfires are LESS frequent now than in the 1980's. Each wildfire now burns more acres per fire. Humans account for the majority of wildfires with lightening strikes the second leading cause. Lightening strike wildfires usually burn more acreage. 

"Peddling pro-logging"????? WTF???

National academy of sciences study found that climate change is responsible for almost all of the increase in burnt acreage in California over the past 50 years. 

Wildfires are inevitable.  No amount of fire suppression and forest management can prevent all fires.  Many studies found that logging, thinning or fuel reduction cause the opposite effect, making fires burn hotter and faster.  Reason is that a denser forest has micro climates that moderate wildfire behavior according to ecologist Hanson's book "Smokescreen: debunking wildfire myths..."  Instead fire damages can be reduced by focusing on community safety and hardening vulnerable homes.

The Center for Biological Diversity, a left-leaning environmental group, acknowledges that, "The vast majority of western dry forests are at risk of large, high-intensity fire because of the effects of poor forest management over the past century. And who, you might be wondering, is the biggest manager of U.S. forests? The very same federal government that is now blaming the problem of wildfires on climate change.

There is no evidence that the number or severity of wildfires like those currently raging in Canada are increasing because of climate change. It’s pure propaganda designed to trick Americans into supporting additional Green New Deal like policies and to deflect blame from the federal government, which is responsible for managing huge swaths of U.S. forests.

How, then, do climate alarmists and Democratic politicians so often get away with asserting that wildfires are worsening? It’s all due to cherry-picked data. 

In 2021, Biden’s first year as president, the NIFC, a group operated by several different federal agencies, altered its available wildfire data, eliminating data collected prior to 1983 from its website.

Prior to 2021, the NIFC provided wildfire data going back to 1926, and from 1926 to the early 1950s, the number of acres burned per year was significantly higher than what we’re seeing today. In many years, it was three or even four times larger.

Gotta love Fox News; https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/wildfires-arent-getting-worse-because-climate-change-real-culprit-surprise-you

WSJ; https://www.wsj.com/articles/canadian-wildfires-climate-change-new-york-smoke-global-warming-boreal-forest-d8bff3b6

"Canadian wildfires came from rotten luck, not climate change,"

Trump   those listening to him about anything 

For decades, Fox news and Wallstreet journal promote misinformation about human caused climate change according to Climate feedback network of scientists.  Pew research found that viewers of Fox news are far more likely to deny man-made global warming.  Public citizen reveals that climate change denial dominates 86% of Fox news climate segments. 

@thirdperson

 Pathetic!