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    All Forums | Politics

    The Joe Biden Diary

    «First Previous 484950 ... 949596 Next Last»
    Zeus4par
    DeezyAZ81
    kcblitzkrieg
    UNIMAN
    wallstreetcappers
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    Zeus4par
    Zeus4par
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    Posted: Oct. 20, 2023 - 12:06 PM ET #1176

    Quote Originally Posted by DeezyAZ81:

    Quote Originally Posted by UNIMAN: Yeah, I read that. 60, where are the other 940 + how many more thousands? You said plural, 1000'S. Even Rueters which went over years of conflict never said even one thousand during Trump admin.  I'll chalk up your statement of 1000's as a Trump-like exageration. Cause that is what I see, those who hate Trump the most have his exact tendencies.  Moving on.......

    Reading comprehension buddy.

    I said injured thousands, which is correct.

    At least 60 people killed from Monday Tuesday buddy. You have a way of just neglecting what you do not want to read.  "As of Tuesday morning, they had killed at least 60 people and wounded thousands of others." The embassy opening also comes right before what Palestinians call Nakba Day, or the Day of Catastrophe, where Palestinians commemorate lands they either fled or were evicted from after the creation of the state of Israel. Ramadan, the Muslim holy month, also begins this week. When the president announced the decision to move the embassy back in December, it placed him squarely in the middle of the decades-long conflict over Jerusalem.Put together, the embassy move is happening at a chaotic, unpredictable, and dangerous time for both the region and Israel itself. And though the White House says that moving the US embassy to Jerusalem will increase stability and the chance of peace, there’s a real reason to worry that it will do the opposite.

    goodpost

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeezyAZ81:

    Quote Originally Posted by UNIMAN: Yeah, I read that. 60, where are the other 940 + how many more thousands? You said plural, 1000'S. Even Rueters which went over years of conflict never said even one thousand during Trump admin.  I'll chalk up your statement of 1000's as a Trump-like exageration. Cause that is what I see, those who hate Trump the most have his exact tendencies.  Moving on.......

    Reading comprehension buddy.

    I said injured thousands, which is correct.

    At least 60 people killed from Monday Tuesday buddy. You have a way of just neglecting what you do not want to read.  "As of Tuesday morning, they had killed at least 60 people and wounded thousands of others." The embassy opening also comes right before what Palestinians call Nakba Day, or the Day of Catastrophe, where Palestinians commemorate lands they either fled or were evicted from after the creation of the state of Israel. Ramadan, the Muslim holy month, also begins this week. When the president announced the decision to move the embassy back in December, it placed him squarely in the middle of the decades-long conflict over Jerusalem.Put together, the embassy move is happening at a chaotic, unpredictable, and dangerous time for both the region and Israel itself. And though the White House says that moving the US embassy to Jerusalem will increase stability and the chance of peace, there’s a real reason to worry that it will do the opposite.

    goodpost

     
    DeezyAZ81
    DeezyAZ81
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    Posted: Oct. 20, 2023 - 12:06 PM ET #1177

    Quote Originally Posted by kcblitzkrieg:

    Quote Originally Posted by DeezyAZ81: I already know you are clueless on the history between Palestinians and Israel but you think the former President moving the Embassy to Jerusalem promoted peace and stability? Shows you know absolutely nothing about the history of the region and the decades of conflict over the area. That was not by any means a decision that promoted peace or stability in the region. Immediately, after the decision thousands more Palestinians were killed along the Gaza by Israeli forces. I can assure you Palestinians did not view this symbolic move of the embassy to Jerusalem to be peaceful or promoting unity.   Oh the irony of this post....."clueless" then "decades of conflict".   Man Deezy, you need to go brush up on your Pre-WWII history lessons.... this blood feud didn't begin in 1947 buddy

    Who said anything about 1947? confused I surely did not. You do realize decades can mean hundreds or thousands of years? Would you rather have me used centuries? Is that better for you? I love with covers posters turn into the formal semantics police. Are you still going to lecture me about how Trump will never win the GOP for 2024 Presidential election again. an_roll_laugh I do not think you are anyone who should be calling others wrong on any matter. peace_5

     

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcblitzkrieg:

    Quote Originally Posted by DeezyAZ81: I already know you are clueless on the history between Palestinians and Israel but you think the former President moving the Embassy to Jerusalem promoted peace and stability? Shows you know absolutely nothing about the history of the region and the decades of conflict over the area. That was not by any means a decision that promoted peace or stability in the region. Immediately, after the decision thousands more Palestinians were killed along the Gaza by Israeli forces. I can assure you Palestinians did not view this symbolic move of the embassy to Jerusalem to be peaceful or promoting unity.   Oh the irony of this post....."clueless" then "decades of conflict".   Man Deezy, you need to go brush up on your Pre-WWII history lessons.... this blood feud didn't begin in 1947 buddy

    Who said anything about 1947? confused I surely did not. You do realize decades can mean hundreds or thousands of years? Would you rather have me used centuries? Is that better for you? I love with covers posters turn into the formal semantics police. Are you still going to lecture me about how Trump will never win the GOP for 2024 Presidential election again. an_roll_laugh I do not think you are anyone who should be calling others wrong on any matter. peace_5

     

     
    DeezyAZ81
    DeezyAZ81
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    Posted: Oct. 20, 2023 - 12:08 PM ET #1178

    Quote Originally Posted by thirdperson:

    Quote Originally Posted by DeezyAZ81: Middle East was just a pillar of peace and stability during Trump administration.   Such a silly and false comment. DeezyAZ81 is right.  Biden has to clean up Trump's mess in the Middle east.  Big blunder in withdrawing US from Iran nuclear deal the most significant peace achievement in a decade.  Trump ended up sending more US forces to the Middle east.  His Abraham accords is overrated because closer ties between Israel and a few Arab countries happen naturally without the US.  According to Council for foreign relations, Trump's legacy in the Middle east is failure.

    This too. You think Trump scrapping the Iranian nuclear deal made Iran content? an_lightYou do not think this just pissed Iran off? Come on people. Wake up. 

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    Quote Originally Posted by thirdperson:

    Quote Originally Posted by DeezyAZ81: Middle East was just a pillar of peace and stability during Trump administration.   Such a silly and false comment. DeezyAZ81 is right.  Biden has to clean up Trump's mess in the Middle east.  Big blunder in withdrawing US from Iran nuclear deal the most significant peace achievement in a decade.  Trump ended up sending more US forces to the Middle east.  His Abraham accords is overrated because closer ties between Israel and a few Arab countries happen naturally without the US.  According to Council for foreign relations, Trump's legacy in the Middle east is failure.

    This too. You think Trump scrapping the Iranian nuclear deal made Iran content? an_lightYou do not think this just pissed Iran off? Come on people. Wake up. 

     
    kcblitzkrieg
    kcblitzkrieg
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    Posted: Oct. 20, 2023 - 12:22 PM ET #1179

    Quote Originally Posted by DeezyAZ81:

    Quote Originally Posted by kcblitzkrieg: Quote Originally Posted by DeezyAZ81: I already know you are clueless on the history between Palestinians and Israel but you think the former President moving the Embassy to Jerusalem promoted peace and stability? Shows you know absolutely nothing about the history of the region and the decades of conflict over the area. That was not by any means a decision that promoted peace or stability in the region. Immediately, after the decision thousands more Palestinians were killed along the Gaza by Israeli forces. I can assure you Palestinians did not view this symbolic move of the embassy to Jerusalem to be peaceful or promoting unity.   Oh the irony of this post....."clueless" then "decades of conflict".   Man Deezy, you need to go brush up on your Pre-WWII history lessons.... this blood feud didn't begin in 1947 buddy Who said anything about 1947?  I surely did not. You do realize decades can mean hundreds or thousands of years? Would you rather have me used centuries? Is that better for you? I love with covers posters turn into the formal semantics police. Are you still going to lecture me about how Trump will never win the GOP for 2024 Presidential election again.  I do not think you are anyone who should be calling others wrong on any matter.

    You are too predictable as I knew you'd come back with that.....Yes, you should have used a different time scale than "decades" when you are talking about a 1000+ year old time frame....something like "centuries" would have been a more apt term.  Glad we could come to an agreement on this, you are welcome for my assistance peace_5  

    Not sure what you are referencing with "am I going to lecture you about how Trump will never win the 2024 GOP nomination".  Unlike 99% of those in this sub forum, I can admit when I've been wrong (not often I admit an_wink).  The only reference I can think of related to this was about 1.5 years ago, during a brief time period when I said something about Trump not winning the GOP nomination.  You and I discussed it and you helped change my mind that there was "no way" Trump would stand down and let someone like RDS take it.  I believe your stance was something along the lines of "Trump would burn it down rather than have someone else run in 2024".  It really was a civil discussion and you showed me the light.  Since then I've said Trump will get the GOP nod unless the persecution of our politically motivated legal system prevents him from doing so.  I've also stated many times that he won't win, if the circumstances are anything remotely the same as 2020.  What has the GOP done to show that anything will be different from 2020, regardless of its its Vivek, Trump or 'lil Ron??  'Nothing' is the answer. 

    You will not survive here. You are not a wolf, and this is the land of wolves now...
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeezyAZ81:

    Quote Originally Posted by kcblitzkrieg: Quote Originally Posted by DeezyAZ81: I already know you are clueless on the history between Palestinians and Israel but you think the former President moving the Embassy to Jerusalem promoted peace and stability? Shows you know absolutely nothing about the history of the region and the decades of conflict over the area. That was not by any means a decision that promoted peace or stability in the region. Immediately, after the decision thousands more Palestinians were killed along the Gaza by Israeli forces. I can assure you Palestinians did not view this symbolic move of the embassy to Jerusalem to be peaceful or promoting unity.   Oh the irony of this post....."clueless" then "decades of conflict".   Man Deezy, you need to go brush up on your Pre-WWII history lessons.... this blood feud didn't begin in 1947 buddy Who said anything about 1947?  I surely did not. You do realize decades can mean hundreds or thousands of years? Would you rather have me used centuries? Is that better for you? I love with covers posters turn into the formal semantics police. Are you still going to lecture me about how Trump will never win the GOP for 2024 Presidential election again.  I do not think you are anyone who should be calling others wrong on any matter.

    You are too predictable as I knew you'd come back with that.....Yes, you should have used a different time scale than "decades" when you are talking about a 1000+ year old time frame....something like "centuries" would have been a more apt term.  Glad we could come to an agreement on this, you are welcome for my assistance peace_5  

    Not sure what you are referencing with "am I going to lecture you about how Trump will never win the 2024 GOP nomination".  Unlike 99% of those in this sub forum, I can admit when I've been wrong (not often I admit an_wink).  The only reference I can think of related to this was about 1.5 years ago, during a brief time period when I said something about Trump not winning the GOP nomination.  You and I discussed it and you helped change my mind that there was "no way" Trump would stand down and let someone like RDS take it.  I believe your stance was something along the lines of "Trump would burn it down rather than have someone else run in 2024".  It really was a civil discussion and you showed me the light.  Since then I've said Trump will get the GOP nod unless the persecution of our politically motivated legal system prevents him from doing so.  I've also stated many times that he won't win, if the circumstances are anything remotely the same as 2020.  What has the GOP done to show that anything will be different from 2020, regardless of its its Vivek, Trump or 'lil Ron??  'Nothing' is the answer. 

     
    UNIMAN
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    Posted: Oct. 20, 2023 - 12:26 PM ET #1180

    Quote Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:

    @UNIMAN    Here is the rub with your reply though...does it even matter if there were previous invasions and even Israel had wars in the region as we know from the Bible, so the issue of the area being run over by many countries does not mean that the people who never left are still there. Your reply insinuates that the Palestinians might not have exclusive claim to the area and you know that MIGHT be right, the problem is that nobody respected them enough to include them in the give away, there are many groups that have been there for centuries that are not being considered in what happens in the land they feel is theirs. So how do you think that is going to play out when a prime section of valuable territory is given to your enemy by outside third parties without your consideration or negotiation? Even more than Israel feels that land is theirs because their religious creator gave it to them, the others in the area feel it is also theirs because they have lived there and their scripture likely says the same for them. If you follow the Bible and if we consider it to be the prime consideration for the region (which of course it is not) then we all know that the area was not theirs in the first place, Israel was many tribes gathered from many regions, a people without a land to call theirs...then their prophet was told by their creator that the land was theirs. Ok so that is THEIR story and we all know it. That does not mean that the people who were there long before are not feeling it is theirs. This conflict is deep rooted and the lack of consideration and respect for all in the region means that there will never be peace, that is exactly the example I gave above and it is spot to the point, to the Palestinians their land was taken without their consent and given to the enemy. That wont play out ever in a good way.

    For the most part I agree. My post was only pointing out it's a bit more complicated than 3rd party takes my family's land, gives to 2nd party. IMO, too simplistic. The Ottoman Empire controlled the land and then Britain. 

    And I agree, doesn't play out in a good way. And many who terrorize Israel were people never involved/affected by, the move in the first place.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:

    @UNIMAN    Here is the rub with your reply though...does it even matter if there were previous invasions and even Israel had wars in the region as we know from the Bible, so the issue of the area being run over by many countries does not mean that the people who never left are still there. Your reply insinuates that the Palestinians might not have exclusive claim to the area and you know that MIGHT be right, the problem is that nobody respected them enough to include them in the give away, there are many groups that have been there for centuries that are not being considered in what happens in the land they feel is theirs. So how do you think that is going to play out when a prime section of valuable territory is given to your enemy by outside third parties without your consideration or negotiation? Even more than Israel feels that land is theirs because their religious creator gave it to them, the others in the area feel it is also theirs because they have lived there and their scripture likely says the same for them. If you follow the Bible and if we consider it to be the prime consideration for the region (which of course it is not) then we all know that the area was not theirs in the first place, Israel was many tribes gathered from many regions, a people without a land to call theirs...then their prophet was told by their creator that the land was theirs. Ok so that is THEIR story and we all know it. That does not mean that the people who were there long before are not feeling it is theirs. This conflict is deep rooted and the lack of consideration and respect for all in the region means that there will never be peace, that is exactly the example I gave above and it is spot to the point, to the Palestinians their land was taken without their consent and given to the enemy. That wont play out ever in a good way.

    For the most part I agree. My post was only pointing out it's a bit more complicated than 3rd party takes my family's land, gives to 2nd party. IMO, too simplistic. The Ottoman Empire controlled the land and then Britain. 

    And I agree, doesn't play out in a good way. And many who terrorize Israel were people never involved/affected by, the move in the first place.

     
    DeezyAZ81
    DeezyAZ81
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    Posted: Oct. 20, 2023 - 12:43 PM ET #1181

    Quote Originally Posted by kcblitzkrieg:

    You are too predictable as I knew you'd come back with that.....Yes, you should have used a different time scale than "decades" when you are talking about a 1000+ year old time frame....something like "centuries" would have been a more apt term.  Glad we could come to an agreement on this, you are welcome for my assistance    Not sure what you are referencing with "am I going to lecture you about how Trump will never win the 2024 GOP nomination".  Unlike 99% of those in this sub forum, I can admit when I've been wrong (not often I admit ).  The only reference I can think of related to this was about 1.5 years ago, during a brief time period when I said something about Trump not winning the GOP nomination.  You and I discussed it and you helped change my mind that there was "no way" Trump would stand down and let someone like RDS take it.  I believe your stance was something along the lines of "Trump would burn it down rather than have someone else run in 2024".  It really was a civil discussion and you showed me the light.  Since then I've said Trump will get the GOP nod unless the persecution of our politically motivated legal system prevents him from doing so.  I've also stated many times that he won't win, if the circumstances are anything remotely the same as 2020.  What has the GOP done to show that anything will be different from 2020, regardless of its its Vivek, Trump or 'lil Ron??  'Nothing' is the answer.

    Glad you admitted you are the formal semantics police in here all of the sudden and that I must confirm my time scale references with you before I post. an_roll_laugh

    My other posts on this subject obviously reveal I am historically well-versed on this issue, which is revealed in the common sense and logic I apply in my posts regarding Trump's moves in the region and how they did not all of the sudden, as Trumpsters want you to believe in this forum, cause peace and stability in the region and the Middle East. You really have people in here claiming remember 3 years under Trump when there was "peace and stability" in the Middle East? Like an American President came into office snapped his fingers, moved the embassy to Jerusalem, dismantled the Iranian nuclear deal, fixed everything, and all of the countries, ethnic, and religious groups in the region exclaimed problems solved because of an American President! It's so misguided, misinformed, disingenuous, and flat out wrong. Almost like, they just ignored hundreds or even thousands of years of conflict and disagreement between many groups, territories, and states in the region (just clearing these time scales with you). How clueless and arrogant must you be to think a U.S. President, who has no actual power in that region, can fix any of these things or even quell tension and conflict between groups and actors that have been going at it for so long? That has pretty much been my point the entire time and that Trump's controversial moves did not just please everyone over there, in fact they pissed a lot of people off. peace_5

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcblitzkrieg:

    You are too predictable as I knew you'd come back with that.....Yes, you should have used a different time scale than "decades" when you are talking about a 1000+ year old time frame....something like "centuries" would have been a more apt term.  Glad we could come to an agreement on this, you are welcome for my assistance    Not sure what you are referencing with "am I going to lecture you about how Trump will never win the 2024 GOP nomination".  Unlike 99% of those in this sub forum, I can admit when I've been wrong (not often I admit ).  The only reference I can think of related to this was about 1.5 years ago, during a brief time period when I said something about Trump not winning the GOP nomination.  You and I discussed it and you helped change my mind that there was "no way" Trump would stand down and let someone like RDS take it.  I believe your stance was something along the lines of "Trump would burn it down rather than have someone else run in 2024".  It really was a civil discussion and you showed me the light.  Since then I've said Trump will get the GOP nod unless the persecution of our politically motivated legal system prevents him from doing so.  I've also stated many times that he won't win, if the circumstances are anything remotely the same as 2020.  What has the GOP done to show that anything will be different from 2020, regardless of its its Vivek, Trump or 'lil Ron??  'Nothing' is the answer.

    Glad you admitted you are the formal semantics police in here all of the sudden and that I must confirm my time scale references with you before I post. an_roll_laugh

    My other posts on this subject obviously reveal I am historically well-versed on this issue, which is revealed in the common sense and logic I apply in my posts regarding Trump's moves in the region and how they did not all of the sudden, as Trumpsters want you to believe in this forum, cause peace and stability in the region and the Middle East. You really have people in here claiming remember 3 years under Trump when there was "peace and stability" in the Middle East? Like an American President came into office snapped his fingers, moved the embassy to Jerusalem, dismantled the Iranian nuclear deal, fixed everything, and all of the countries, ethnic, and religious groups in the region exclaimed problems solved because of an American President! It's so misguided, misinformed, disingenuous, and flat out wrong. Almost like, they just ignored hundreds or even thousands of years of conflict and disagreement between many groups, territories, and states in the region (just clearing these time scales with you). How clueless and arrogant must you be to think a U.S. President, who has no actual power in that region, can fix any of these things or even quell tension and conflict between groups and actors that have been going at it for so long? That has pretty much been my point the entire time and that Trump's controversial moves did not just please everyone over there, in fact they pissed a lot of people off. peace_5

     
    kcblitzkrieg
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    Posted: Oct. 20, 2023 - 1:01 PM ET #1182

    @DeezyAZ81

     I don't disagree with your Trump / Middle East assessment....what you describe is real but I think it is more so of the simple fact that 2019 US / World was vastly different in much better ways than what the state of affairs is today.  This is one of the many problems with identity politics as there are way too many factors, macro & micro, that contribute to all of the issues we are faced with today that we were not in 2019.  Multiple wars, inflation, housing, mortgage rates, social morality degradation, etc.  It is much easier to blame the President for these thing rather than have an understanding of "why" these things are happening.  People who's identity and self worth that are tied to their political affiliation does not enable them to "see the forest for the trees".  They move through life blindly following the narratives they have been programmed to follow, often just not aware (and in some cases blatantly ignoring) the realities behind the ebb and flow of domestic and global events.  History shows us this very clearly to see.  

    If you flip flopped Biden Admin with Trump Admin in the history timeline then you would be looking at the opposite result but same effect today.  Everyone on the right would be shouting how good things were under Biden and how bad things are under Trump.  I'm not giving either a free pass here, that is just how the masses see things and react accordingly.  

     

     

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    @DeezyAZ81

     I don't disagree with your Trump / Middle East assessment....what you describe is real but I think it is more so of the simple fact that 2019 US / World was vastly different in much better ways than what the state of affairs is today.  This is one of the many problems with identity politics as there are way too many factors, macro & micro, that contribute to all of the issues we are faced with today that we were not in 2019.  Multiple wars, inflation, housing, mortgage rates, social morality degradation, etc.  It is much easier to blame the President for these thing rather than have an understanding of "why" these things are happening.  People who's identity and self worth that are tied to their political affiliation does not enable them to "see the forest for the trees".  They move through life blindly following the narratives they have been programmed to follow, often just not aware (and in some cases blatantly ignoring) the realities behind the ebb and flow of domestic and global events.  History shows us this very clearly to see.  

    If you flip flopped Biden Admin with Trump Admin in the history timeline then you would be looking at the opposite result but same effect today.  Everyone on the right would be shouting how good things were under Biden and how bad things are under Trump.  I'm not giving either a free pass here, that is just how the masses see things and react accordingly.  

     

     

     
    kcblitzkrieg
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    Posted: Oct. 20, 2023 - 1:02 PM ET #1183

    *edit*

    everyone on the left would be shouting

    You will not survive here. You are not a wolf, and this is the land of wolves now...
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    *edit*

    everyone on the left would be shouting

     
    DeezyAZ81
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    Posted: Oct. 20, 2023 - 1:16 PM ET #1184

    Quote Originally Posted by kcblitzkrieg:

    @DeezyAZ81  I don't disagree with your Trump / Middle East assessment....what you describe is real but I think it is more so of the simple fact that 2019 US / World was vastly different in much better ways than what the state of affairs is today.  This is one of the many problems with identity politics as there are way too many factors, macro & micro, that contribute to all of the issues we are faced with today that we were not in 2019.  Multiple wars, inflation, housing, mortgage rates, social morality degradation, etc.  It is much easier to blame the President for these thing rather than have an understanding of "why" these things are happening.  People who's identity and self worth that are tied to their political affiliation does not enable them to "see the forest for the trees".  They move through life blindly following the narratives they have been programmed to follow, often just not aware (and in some cases blatantly ignoring) the realities behind the ebb and flow of domestic and global events.  History shows us this very clearly to see.   If you flip flopped Biden Admin with Trump Admin in the history timeline then you would be looking at the opposite result but same effect today.  Everyone on the left would be shouting how good things were under Biden and how bad things are under Trump.  I'm not giving either a free pass here, that is just how the masses see things and react accordingly.

     

    Agree on much of this. Do not forget that the global COVID19 pandemic fueled greater economic and social tensions and crisis that contribute to these problems today, even though now we know the virus is not as bad as originally projected. The initial panic contributed negatively to many longlasting problems and issues. 

    I am not sure about your left-right analysis and policy in the Middle East. Many Trump supporters view him as some type of savior and messiah that solves all global problems instantly, which is so false. I do not see that same kind of fervor among Biden supporters. He really is not even that popular on the left, masses of people just do not want to see Trump again, so he is the alternative. 

    It is nice to see you can be level-headed on these issues, despite your support for the right.peace_5

    It's too bad you do not show this consistency in criticizing some of the fellow Trump posters in this forum with their misguided posts about the success of Trump policies in the Middle East and his ability to promote peace and stability in the region, which could not be further from the truth. an_light

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcblitzkrieg:

    @DeezyAZ81  I don't disagree with your Trump / Middle East assessment....what you describe is real but I think it is more so of the simple fact that 2019 US / World was vastly different in much better ways than what the state of affairs is today.  This is one of the many problems with identity politics as there are way too many factors, macro & micro, that contribute to all of the issues we are faced with today that we were not in 2019.  Multiple wars, inflation, housing, mortgage rates, social morality degradation, etc.  It is much easier to blame the President for these thing rather than have an understanding of "why" these things are happening.  People who's identity and self worth that are tied to their political affiliation does not enable them to "see the forest for the trees".  They move through life blindly following the narratives they have been programmed to follow, often just not aware (and in some cases blatantly ignoring) the realities behind the ebb and flow of domestic and global events.  History shows us this very clearly to see.   If you flip flopped Biden Admin with Trump Admin in the history timeline then you would be looking at the opposite result but same effect today.  Everyone on the left would be shouting how good things were under Biden and how bad things are under Trump.  I'm not giving either a free pass here, that is just how the masses see things and react accordingly.

     

    Agree on much of this. Do not forget that the global COVID19 pandemic fueled greater economic and social tensions and crisis that contribute to these problems today, even though now we know the virus is not as bad as originally projected. The initial panic contributed negatively to many longlasting problems and issues. 

    I am not sure about your left-right analysis and policy in the Middle East. Many Trump supporters view him as some type of savior and messiah that solves all global problems instantly, which is so false. I do not see that same kind of fervor among Biden supporters. He really is not even that popular on the left, masses of people just do not want to see Trump again, so he is the alternative. 

    It is nice to see you can be level-headed on these issues, despite your support for the right.peace_5

    It's too bad you do not show this consistency in criticizing some of the fellow Trump posters in this forum with their misguided posts about the success of Trump policies in the Middle East and his ability to promote peace and stability in the region, which could not be further from the truth. an_light

     
    wallstreetcappers
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    Posted: Oct. 20, 2023 - 1:28 PM ET #1185

    @UNIMAN

     Just because someone is not old enough to be born at the time the land was given does not mean it is not impactful. That way of thinking would eliminate that thought process in the first place, that the region has been in flux for thousands of years but hey if the current people werent around back during the Bible times then it isnt impactful.

    Of course when two or three groups are wanting to eliminate each other every day then it is impactful today even though the roots of the problem go back thousands of years. 

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    @UNIMAN

     Just because someone is not old enough to be born at the time the land was given does not mean it is not impactful. That way of thinking would eliminate that thought process in the first place, that the region has been in flux for thousands of years but hey if the current people werent around back during the Bible times then it isnt impactful.

    Of course when two or three groups are wanting to eliminate each other every day then it is impactful today even though the roots of the problem go back thousands of years. 

     
    kcblitzkrieg
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    Posted: Oct. 20, 2023 - 1:53 PM ET #1186

    Quote Originally Posted by DeezyAZ81:

    Quote Originally Posted by kcblitzkrieg: @DeezyAZ81  I don't disagree with your Trump / Middle East assessment....what you describe is real but I think it is more so of the simple fact that 2019 US / World was vastly different in much better ways than what the state of affairs is today.  This is one of the many problems with identity politics as there are way too many factors, macro & micro, that contribute to all of the issues we are faced with today that we were not in 2019.  Multiple wars, inflation, housing, mortgage rates, social morality degradation, etc.  It is much easier to blame the President for these thing rather than have an understanding of "why" these things are happening.  People who's identity and self worth that are tied to their political affiliation does not enable them to "see the forest for the trees".  They move through life blindly following the narratives they have been programmed to follow, often just not aware (and in some cases blatantly ignoring) the realities behind the ebb and flow of domestic and global events.  History shows us this very clearly to see.   If you flip flopped Biden Admin with Trump Admin in the history timeline then you would be looking at the opposite result but same effect today.  Everyone on the left would be shouting how good things were under Biden and how bad things are under Trump.  I'm not giving either a free pass here, that is just how the masses see things and react accordingly.   Agree on much of this. Do not forget that the global COVID19 pandemic fueled greater economic and social tensions and crisis that contribute to these problems today, even though now we know the virus is not as bad as originally projected. The initial panic contributed negatively to many longlasting problems and issues.  I am not sure about your left-right analysis and policy in the Middle East. Many Trump supporters view him as some type of savior and messiah that solves all global problems instantly, which is so false. I do not see that same kind of fervor among Biden supporters. He really is not even that popular on the left, masses of people just do not want to see Trump again, so he is the alternative.  It is nice to see you can be level-headed on these issues, despite your support for the right. It's too bad you do not show this consistency in criticizing some of the fellow Trump posters in this forum with their misguided posts about the success of Trump policies in the Middle East and his ability to promote peace and stability in the region, which could not be further from the truth.

    I addressed this, poorly I guess.... that was my point about those who believe Trump's policies are a result of that time period.  Take whatever issue you want, replace 2016-2019 with Biden and put Trump in 2020 to now.  There will be some differences but as a whole, the entire Left would be saying all of the same shit that the Right is currently saying.  Again, I'm making a generalization and there are examples to contradict but as a whole that is the issue.  

    I've pointed out some of these things, like the GOP actions since 2020 and how does any Republican think Trump can win the 2024 WH.  I've been met with silence on that question posed to the "always Trumpers".  No one on the other side of the aisle responds to that question either though, mainly cause they don't care to engage or the truth of the answer is that the GOP has not done a damn thing so why would anyone expect a different result from 2020.  You can't just point the finger to how bad certain things are now versus 2019 and think Trump will win 2024.  That is just wishful thinking.  

     

    You will not survive here. You are not a wolf, and this is the land of wolves now...
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeezyAZ81:

    Quote Originally Posted by kcblitzkrieg: @DeezyAZ81  I don't disagree with your Trump / Middle East assessment....what you describe is real but I think it is more so of the simple fact that 2019 US / World was vastly different in much better ways than what the state of affairs is today.  This is one of the many problems with identity politics as there are way too many factors, macro & micro, that contribute to all of the issues we are faced with today that we were not in 2019.  Multiple wars, inflation, housing, mortgage rates, social morality degradation, etc.  It is much easier to blame the President for these thing rather than have an understanding of "why" these things are happening.  People who's identity and self worth that are tied to their political affiliation does not enable them to "see the forest for the trees".  They move through life blindly following the narratives they have been programmed to follow, often just not aware (and in some cases blatantly ignoring) the realities behind the ebb and flow of domestic and global events.  History shows us this very clearly to see.   If you flip flopped Biden Admin with Trump Admin in the history timeline then you would be looking at the opposite result but same effect today.  Everyone on the left would be shouting how good things were under Biden and how bad things are under Trump.  I'm not giving either a free pass here, that is just how the masses see things and react accordingly.   Agree on much of this. Do not forget that the global COVID19 pandemic fueled greater economic and social tensions and crisis that contribute to these problems today, even though now we know the virus is not as bad as originally projected. The initial panic contributed negatively to many longlasting problems and issues.  I am not sure about your left-right analysis and policy in the Middle East. Many Trump supporters view him as some type of savior and messiah that solves all global problems instantly, which is so false. I do not see that same kind of fervor among Biden supporters. He really is not even that popular on the left, masses of people just do not want to see Trump again, so he is the alternative.  It is nice to see you can be level-headed on these issues, despite your support for the right. It's too bad you do not show this consistency in criticizing some of the fellow Trump posters in this forum with their misguided posts about the success of Trump policies in the Middle East and his ability to promote peace and stability in the region, which could not be further from the truth.

    I addressed this, poorly I guess.... that was my point about those who believe Trump's policies are a result of that time period.  Take whatever issue you want, replace 2016-2019 with Biden and put Trump in 2020 to now.  There will be some differences but as a whole, the entire Left would be saying all of the same shit that the Right is currently saying.  Again, I'm making a generalization and there are examples to contradict but as a whole that is the issue.  

    I've pointed out some of these things, like the GOP actions since 2020 and how does any Republican think Trump can win the 2024 WH.  I've been met with silence on that question posed to the "always Trumpers".  No one on the other side of the aisle responds to that question either though, mainly cause they don't care to engage or the truth of the answer is that the GOP has not done a damn thing so why would anyone expect a different result from 2020.  You can't just point the finger to how bad certain things are now versus 2019 and think Trump will win 2024.  That is just wishful thinking.  

     

     
    DeezyAZ81
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    Posted: Oct. 20, 2023 - 2:02 PM ET #1187

    Quote Originally Posted by kcblitzkrieg:

    Quote  I addressed this, poorly I guess.... that was my point about those who believe Trump's policies are a result of that time period.  Take whatever issue you want, replace 2016-2019 with Biden and put Trump in 2020 to now.  There will be some differences but as a whole, the entire Left would be saying all of the same shit that the Right is currently saying.  Again, I'm making a generalization and there are examples to contradict but as a whole that is the issue.   I've pointed out some of these things, like the GOP actions since 2020 and how does any Republican think Trump can win the 2024 WH.  I've been met with silence on that question posed to the "always Trumpers".  No one on the other side of the aisle responds to that question either though, mainly cause they don't care to engage or the truth of the answer is that the GOP has not done a damn thing so why would anyone expect a different result from 2020.  You can't just point the finger to how bad certain things are now versus 2019 and think Trump will win 2024.  That is just wishful thinking.

     

    I do not know about all of the left, but definitely members of the uninformed left and media for sure. I lean left, although more center (I do not believe in all the extreme left BS on everything being racist, sexuality etc). Anyone with basic knowledge on Middle Eastern affairs and history should acknowledge that no single American actor or President can make any kind of profound influence in the region in settling conflict either way. That is why I think these posts about Trump being pillar and symbol of Middle Eastern strength, peace, and stability is so damn comical and absurd. peace_5 If Biden supporters were saying the same thing, I would laugh and call that out too. It's just flat out lies. peace

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcblitzkrieg:

    Quote  I addressed this, poorly I guess.... that was my point about those who believe Trump's policies are a result of that time period.  Take whatever issue you want, replace 2016-2019 with Biden and put Trump in 2020 to now.  There will be some differences but as a whole, the entire Left would be saying all of the same shit that the Right is currently saying.  Again, I'm making a generalization and there are examples to contradict but as a whole that is the issue.   I've pointed out some of these things, like the GOP actions since 2020 and how does any Republican think Trump can win the 2024 WH.  I've been met with silence on that question posed to the "always Trumpers".  No one on the other side of the aisle responds to that question either though, mainly cause they don't care to engage or the truth of the answer is that the GOP has not done a damn thing so why would anyone expect a different result from 2020.  You can't just point the finger to how bad certain things are now versus 2019 and think Trump will win 2024.  That is just wishful thinking.

     

    I do not know about all of the left, but definitely members of the uninformed left and media for sure. I lean left, although more center (I do not believe in all the extreme left BS on everything being racist, sexuality etc). Anyone with basic knowledge on Middle Eastern affairs and history should acknowledge that no single American actor or President can make any kind of profound influence in the region in settling conflict either way. That is why I think these posts about Trump being pillar and symbol of Middle Eastern strength, peace, and stability is so damn comical and absurd. peace_5 If Biden supporters were saying the same thing, I would laugh and call that out too. It's just flat out lies. peace

     
    DeezyAZ81
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    Posted: Oct. 20, 2023 - 2:10 PM ET #1188

    Quote Originally Posted by kcblitzkrieg:

    Quote I addressed this, poorly I guess.... that was my point about those who believe Trump's policies are a result of that time period.  Take whatever issue you want, replace 2016-2019 with Biden and put Trump in 2020 to now.  There will be some differences but as a whole, the entire Left would be saying all of the same shit that the Right is currently saying.  Again, I'm making a generalization and there are examples to contradict but as a whole that is the issue.   I've pointed out some of these things, like the GOP actions since 2020 and how does any Republican think Trump can win the 2024 WH.  I've been met with silence on that question posed to the "always Trumpers".  No one on the other side of the aisle responds to that question either though, mainly cause they don't care to engage or the truth of the answer is that the GOP has not done a damn thing so why would anyone expect a different result from 2020.  You can't just point the finger to how bad certain things are now versus 2019 and think Trump will win 2024.  That is just wishful thinking.

    I know you lean right but I do not mind discussing and debating with you on these issues. You are not completely overcome by political ideology, party affiliation, and bias like most in this forum. At least you communicate with facts, perspective, and truthfulness, which is rare in this forum. Of course, we see certain things, policies, and actors differently but that is okay by me. peace_5

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcblitzkrieg:

    Quote I addressed this, poorly I guess.... that was my point about those who believe Trump's policies are a result of that time period.  Take whatever issue you want, replace 2016-2019 with Biden and put Trump in 2020 to now.  There will be some differences but as a whole, the entire Left would be saying all of the same shit that the Right is currently saying.  Again, I'm making a generalization and there are examples to contradict but as a whole that is the issue.   I've pointed out some of these things, like the GOP actions since 2020 and how does any Republican think Trump can win the 2024 WH.  I've been met with silence on that question posed to the "always Trumpers".  No one on the other side of the aisle responds to that question either though, mainly cause they don't care to engage or the truth of the answer is that the GOP has not done a damn thing so why would anyone expect a different result from 2020.  You can't just point the finger to how bad certain things are now versus 2019 and think Trump will win 2024.  That is just wishful thinking.

    I know you lean right but I do not mind discussing and debating with you on these issues. You are not completely overcome by political ideology, party affiliation, and bias like most in this forum. At least you communicate with facts, perspective, and truthfulness, which is rare in this forum. Of course, we see certain things, policies, and actors differently but that is okay by me. peace_5

     
    kcblitzkrieg
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    Posted: Oct. 20, 2023 - 2:31 PM ET #1189

    @DeezyAZ81

     My neezy peace_5 

    You will not survive here. You are not a wolf, and this is the land of wolves now...
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    @DeezyAZ81

     My neezy peace_5 

     
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    Posted: Oct. 22, 2023 - 7:56 PM ET #1190

    TEHRAN – In Last July, the Tehran Times exclusively reported that former U.S. envoy for Iran Rob Malley got his security clearance suspended on April 21. The Tehran Times now can reveal that Malley breached three U.S. national security rules. 

     

    Aug 29th of this year; 

    The case of Robert Malley, the Biden administration’s suspended special envoy on Iran, keeps getting stranger.

    On Sunday, an Iranian state news outlet, the Tehran Times, published what appears to be a highly sensitive State Department document. In an April 21st letter to Malley, the director of the Department’s Diplomatic Security Office, Erin E. Smart, informed the diplomat that, for the time being at least, he couldn’t be trusted with handling classified U.S. government documents and intelligence.

    Her office “received information regarding you that raises serious security concerns and can be disqualifying” under a number of U.S. government guidelines, Smart wrote, according to the published copy of the letter. She added: “Your national security eligibility, including your Top Secret security clearance, is suspended pending an ongoing investigation.”

    Senator Ted Cruz; Well, and what you just mentioned with Rob Malley remains one of the greatest national security scandals in our nation's history. So, Rob Malley was Joe Biden's chief negotiator for Iran. He's an incredible Iran sympathizer. He is an advocate, a passionate advocate for the disastrous Obama-Iran nuclear deal. But he also has extraordinarily bad judgment. He's been fired. He's had his security clearances stripped, which I want you to pause and think, just how bad does his conduct have to be to have his security clearances pulled by this ideological and radical White House? 

    But we now know also that, among other things, three of Rob Malley's top advisers, his inner circle that he relied on, were Iranian operatives. They were recruited by the government of Iran. They were directed by the Iranian foreign minister. They reported to the Iranian foreign minister. 

    We have their emails now in which they discuss, one of them discusses with the foreign minister that his loyalties are with the government of Iran, and he is there to do whatever they direct, including making the message from within the federal government that there's nothing wrong with Iran having a nuclear stockpile. You literally had three Iranian spies working in senior positions directly around the U.S. government. 

     

     

     

     

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    TEHRAN – In Last July, the Tehran Times exclusively reported that former U.S. envoy for Iran Rob Malley got his security clearance suspended on April 21. The Tehran Times now can reveal that Malley breached three U.S. national security rules. 

     

    Aug 29th of this year; 

    The case of Robert Malley, the Biden administration’s suspended special envoy on Iran, keeps getting stranger.

    On Sunday, an Iranian state news outlet, the Tehran Times, published what appears to be a highly sensitive State Department document. In an April 21st letter to Malley, the director of the Department’s Diplomatic Security Office, Erin E. Smart, informed the diplomat that, for the time being at least, he couldn’t be trusted with handling classified U.S. government documents and intelligence.

    Her office “received information regarding you that raises serious security concerns and can be disqualifying” under a number of U.S. government guidelines, Smart wrote, according to the published copy of the letter. She added: “Your national security eligibility, including your Top Secret security clearance, is suspended pending an ongoing investigation.”

    Senator Ted Cruz; Well, and what you just mentioned with Rob Malley remains one of the greatest national security scandals in our nation's history. So, Rob Malley was Joe Biden's chief negotiator for Iran. He's an incredible Iran sympathizer. He is an advocate, a passionate advocate for the disastrous Obama-Iran nuclear deal. But he also has extraordinarily bad judgment. He's been fired. He's had his security clearances stripped, which I want you to pause and think, just how bad does his conduct have to be to have his security clearances pulled by this ideological and radical White House? 

    But we now know also that, among other things, three of Rob Malley's top advisers, his inner circle that he relied on, were Iranian operatives. They were recruited by the government of Iran. They were directed by the Iranian foreign minister. They reported to the Iranian foreign minister. 

    We have their emails now in which they discuss, one of them discusses with the foreign minister that his loyalties are with the government of Iran, and he is there to do whatever they direct, including making the message from within the federal government that there's nothing wrong with Iran having a nuclear stockpile. You literally had three Iranian spies working in senior positions directly around the U.S. government. 

     

     

     

     

     
    UNIMAN
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    Posted: Oct. 29, 2023 - 10:12 AM ET #1191

    So Joe Biden stopped the Keystone Pipeline from sending that nasty, bad tar sand oil from Canada and has now released sanctions on Venezuela so they can send us even worse nasty, bad tar sand oil.

     

    Sounds about right. confused

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    So Joe Biden stopped the Keystone Pipeline from sending that nasty, bad tar sand oil from Canada and has now released sanctions on Venezuela so they can send us even worse nasty, bad tar sand oil.

     

    Sounds about right. confused

     
    wallstreetcappers
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    Posted: Oct. 29, 2023 - 11:27 AM ET #1192

    @UNIMAN

     You are funny, if people didnt not research your half truths they might believe your narrative.

    Sour crude from keystone does not stay in domestic locations, we have discussed this so many times. Canada used the pipeline to ship their chemically toxic unprocessed oil down to refiners in the gulf. THEN that oil is refined at sites like Valero to be separated from the chemicals in the sludge and products are separated. Then the processed goodies are loaded onto large oil tankers and shipped to China. Canada has all their product under contract to be delivered to foreign countries and none stays in this country.

    Canada needs to build refineries near their coastlines and have them bear the burden of pipeline breaks and the abuse to wildlife that these pipelines cause. We gained nothing except a few short term jobs and profits for a multi national refiner Valero. If Valero wants their business then fork out the cash and build refineries in BC, not use pipelines down the middle of the US to get their products.

    It is almost like you do zero research to find your partisan nonsense messages. US domestic production is at an ALL TIME HIGH, see I guess Biden gets the credit for that right?

    an_roll_laugh

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    @UNIMAN

     You are funny, if people didnt not research your half truths they might believe your narrative.

    Sour crude from keystone does not stay in domestic locations, we have discussed this so many times. Canada used the pipeline to ship their chemically toxic unprocessed oil down to refiners in the gulf. THEN that oil is refined at sites like Valero to be separated from the chemicals in the sludge and products are separated. Then the processed goodies are loaded onto large oil tankers and shipped to China. Canada has all their product under contract to be delivered to foreign countries and none stays in this country.

    Canada needs to build refineries near their coastlines and have them bear the burden of pipeline breaks and the abuse to wildlife that these pipelines cause. We gained nothing except a few short term jobs and profits for a multi national refiner Valero. If Valero wants their business then fork out the cash and build refineries in BC, not use pipelines down the middle of the US to get their products.

    It is almost like you do zero research to find your partisan nonsense messages. US domestic production is at an ALL TIME HIGH, see I guess Biden gets the credit for that right?

    an_roll_laugh

     
    spockgato
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    Posted: Oct. 30, 2023 - 9:08 AM ET #1193

    I beckon the day that you put your Clubber Lang in the center of the ring and go full fire in a more well rounded fashion .

    You keep yelling out “ Hey Woman ! “ to only a small fraction of the populous here .

    It’s a bit perplexing . Your menacing mohawk and giant mouthpiece grimace with the squinty eyes ferocity is truly lethal as you unleash a barrage of body blows to your opponents but it has me falling over like Mick and gasping for air 

    Did I mention I’m clutching at my heart too ?

    If you want your bronzed statue with both of it’s glorious fists high up in the air to be erected outside of the Covers Spectrum one day you’re gonna have to play it a little more even Steven cuz you’re boxing yourself in by ducking the top contenders .

    These handpicked matches that you’re partaking in , well , it’s simply just going through the motions at this point , and they do not truly test your abilities . Why put in all that training if you’re not going to challenge yourself with some stiff competition ?

    Otherwise they can still place that statue in your honor in front of Covers headquarters but only with the southpaw up .

    “ You Got A Lotta Mo’ “ brother . Use it .

    wallstreetcappers craps in his draws and pees fuckin backwards from his vaj with a squirt.
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    I beckon the day that you put your Clubber Lang in the center of the ring and go full fire in a more well rounded fashion .

    You keep yelling out “ Hey Woman ! “ to only a small fraction of the populous here .

    It’s a bit perplexing . Your menacing mohawk and giant mouthpiece grimace with the squinty eyes ferocity is truly lethal as you unleash a barrage of body blows to your opponents but it has me falling over like Mick and gasping for air 

    Did I mention I’m clutching at my heart too ?

    If you want your bronzed statue with both of it’s glorious fists high up in the air to be erected outside of the Covers Spectrum one day you’re gonna have to play it a little more even Steven cuz you’re boxing yourself in by ducking the top contenders .

    These handpicked matches that you’re partaking in , well , it’s simply just going through the motions at this point , and they do not truly test your abilities . Why put in all that training if you’re not going to challenge yourself with some stiff competition ?

    Otherwise they can still place that statue in your honor in front of Covers headquarters but only with the southpaw up .

    “ You Got A Lotta Mo’ “ brother . Use it .

     
    sundance
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    Posted: Oct. 30, 2023 - 9:17 AM ET #1194

    Washington DC has become a cesspool for the people who claim it as their home. CVS has gone big time lengths to protect toilet paper from thieves for its patrons. CVS actually shows you a picture of toilet paper on the shelf and locks the inventory up behind lock and key. You can not make this up on your best day! What does this tell you? Liberalism is a mental disorder! I hope no one inside the hallowed pages of Covers has to beg a CVS employee to get them a roll of toilet paper behind lock and key! Is there an elephant in the room?

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    Washington DC has become a cesspool for the people who claim it as their home. CVS has gone big time lengths to protect toilet paper from thieves for its patrons. CVS actually shows you a picture of toilet paper on the shelf and locks the inventory up behind lock and key. You can not make this up on your best day! What does this tell you? Liberalism is a mental disorder! I hope no one inside the hallowed pages of Covers has to beg a CVS employee to get them a roll of toilet paper behind lock and key! Is there an elephant in the room?

     
    spockgato
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    Posted: Oct. 30, 2023 - 9:32 AM ET #1195

    That’s a shitty situation and a dirty hole that we need to dig out of . I hope that we can clean all of this up . We need to flush the system , and we need to stop leaving all of these problems to just float there , as they circle around and stare back at us ……

    it’s maddening , this life and it’s complicated structure , every thought basically leads to a stomach bubble and then an eventual fart , culminating in a bowel movement that we are both fascinated by but also fearful of …..

    But I ain’t afraid of shit so…….

    wallstreetcappers craps in his draws and pees fuckin backwards from his vaj with a squirt.
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    That’s a shitty situation and a dirty hole that we need to dig out of . I hope that we can clean all of this up . We need to flush the system , and we need to stop leaving all of these problems to just float there , as they circle around and stare back at us ……

    it’s maddening , this life and it’s complicated structure , every thought basically leads to a stomach bubble and then an eventual fart , culminating in a bowel movement that we are both fascinated by but also fearful of …..

    But I ain’t afraid of shit so…….

     
    UNIMAN
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    Posted: Oct. 30, 2023 - 11:35 AM ET #1196

    @wallstreetcappers

     Yes, I remember the previous conversations we have had on this subject. Also remember doing my research and posting links such as these;

    https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2017/apr/16/kirsten-gillibrand/will-oil-keystone-xl-pipeline-stay-us/

    Gillibrand said the Keystone XL pipeline "doesn’t even have any oil for America."

    Experts say the oil will not be exported straight to other countries, as Gillibrand said.

    We rate Gillibrand’s claim Mostly False.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/arielcohen/2021/06/10/us-loses-russia-and-china-win-with-keystone-xl-closure/?sh=468fae2e7a44

    If the exports are not headed to the U.S., the likely recipients are nations with far worse environmental regulations, like China or India. Without this crucial supply for American refineries, companies will continue to be reliant on heavy crude imports from less friendly nations such as Venezuela, Saudi Arabia, and Russia.

    So here we are today. Now opening the door for Venezulian tar sand crude. And like before you will totally ignore these links and continue on with your I'm so right rhetoric. 

     

    Sorta like saying Dorsey's twitter is just as much free speech as Musk's twitter and then when asked if you read the twitter files or know of Matt Taibbi the wall comes up, "not interested".

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    @wallstreetcappers

     Yes, I remember the previous conversations we have had on this subject. Also remember doing my research and posting links such as these;

    https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2017/apr/16/kirsten-gillibrand/will-oil-keystone-xl-pipeline-stay-us/

    Gillibrand said the Keystone XL pipeline "doesn’t even have any oil for America."

    Experts say the oil will not be exported straight to other countries, as Gillibrand said.

    We rate Gillibrand’s claim Mostly False.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/arielcohen/2021/06/10/us-loses-russia-and-china-win-with-keystone-xl-closure/?sh=468fae2e7a44

    If the exports are not headed to the U.S., the likely recipients are nations with far worse environmental regulations, like China or India. Without this crucial supply for American refineries, companies will continue to be reliant on heavy crude imports from less friendly nations such as Venezuela, Saudi Arabia, and Russia.

    So here we are today. Now opening the door for Venezulian tar sand crude. And like before you will totally ignore these links and continue on with your I'm so right rhetoric. 

     

    Sorta like saying Dorsey's twitter is just as much free speech as Musk's twitter and then when asked if you read the twitter files or know of Matt Taibbi the wall comes up, "not interested".

     
    UNIMAN
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    Posted: Oct. 30, 2023 - 11:49 AM ET #1197

    https://www.wilsoncenter.org/blog-post/canadian-petroleum-supplies-us

    According to the US Energy Information Agency, in 2021, Canada supplied 62% of all US crude oil imports. In fact, our northern neighbor supplies more than half of our total imports of petroleum and petroleum liquids.

    https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/canada-steps-up-pace-oil-production-growth-seen-rising-8-two-years-2023-08-23/

    Two-thirds of Canada's crude comes from northern Alberta's oil sands.

    So 62% of our oil imports are from Canada and 2/3's of that is tar sand oil. The Keystone Pipeline would have reduced transportation costs by 50%. But NOOOOO, Trump like that pipeline so let's buy Venezulain instead.

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    https://www.wilsoncenter.org/blog-post/canadian-petroleum-supplies-us

    According to the US Energy Information Agency, in 2021, Canada supplied 62% of all US crude oil imports. In fact, our northern neighbor supplies more than half of our total imports of petroleum and petroleum liquids.

    https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/canada-steps-up-pace-oil-production-growth-seen-rising-8-two-years-2023-08-23/

    Two-thirds of Canada's crude comes from northern Alberta's oil sands.

    So 62% of our oil imports are from Canada and 2/3's of that is tar sand oil. The Keystone Pipeline would have reduced transportation costs by 50%. But NOOOOO, Trump like that pipeline so let's buy Venezulain instead.

     
    wallstreetcappers
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    Posted: Oct. 30, 2023 - 12:44 PM ET #1198

    @UNIMAN

     You are missing the point,  crude oil imports do not mean that the products which are refined stay in this country or on this continent. Why would Canada be allowed to transport their sludge the width of the country down to the gulf and then BACK the same route? That is absurd, the issue is that the environmental risks are not worth what is gained even if 100% of the sour they transport stays here.

    Canada should refine their product in their country using their pipelines and keep it on their land, not use our land and take risks on our soil so their toxic junk can get to Valero in the gulf. I dont like tar sands/fracking as you know because the harm it does to the environment and the low quality product it extracts, especially since it is transported such long distances for refining. Even the fracking in ND it is too far, there should be max distances we allow this crap to be transported from source to a refinery given that the pipelines have large environmental risks.

    With Canada the US takes all the risks and the gain is for a massive multi national who takes zero risk or ownership of responsibility for any liability  on the transport.

    The percentage of imports is over 50% since Canada uses the US to transport their product to the gulf, but what does that matter unless all of the product stays in the US/Canada once refined? I am sure Valero loves Canada and their sour product but where does it go once refined? The fact we give Valero business does not mean it is beneficial to the US consumer on the same scale.

    My comment about Dorsey was as stated so many times, you guys mention "free speech" as if it exists or that it should exist. My point is that it exists the same proportion that it did with Dorsey as it does with Musk, free speech does not exist and it should not exist because mankind is not capable of conducting free speech in a way that functions in a society. So you can say that Musk does this and Dorsey did that, the fact you agree with Musk does not mean that speech is any more free than it was before nor that it should be more free. Reading twitter files does not change the fact that speech has to be protected and observed due to our toxic human nature, we are too selfish and stupid to be responsible enough to truly share free speech. Its a grand old flag sort of mantra "free speech" but it cant exist outside of folklore and theory, and the wonderful thing about this country is someone is not FORCED to use Twitter under either ownership as the sole means of sharing opinions and running our mouths to get attention or news. So if the version of Twitter was offensive to you under Dorsey then do not use it, if under Musk then do not use it. Find value in what you want and move along, I do that all the time with many media sources, I find most all of them biased and slanted and none are pure and altruistic, that is the real point.

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    @UNIMAN

     You are missing the point,  crude oil imports do not mean that the products which are refined stay in this country or on this continent. Why would Canada be allowed to transport their sludge the width of the country down to the gulf and then BACK the same route? That is absurd, the issue is that the environmental risks are not worth what is gained even if 100% of the sour they transport stays here.

    Canada should refine their product in their country using their pipelines and keep it on their land, not use our land and take risks on our soil so their toxic junk can get to Valero in the gulf. I dont like tar sands/fracking as you know because the harm it does to the environment and the low quality product it extracts, especially since it is transported such long distances for refining. Even the fracking in ND it is too far, there should be max distances we allow this crap to be transported from source to a refinery given that the pipelines have large environmental risks.

    With Canada the US takes all the risks and the gain is for a massive multi national who takes zero risk or ownership of responsibility for any liability  on the transport.

    The percentage of imports is over 50% since Canada uses the US to transport their product to the gulf, but what does that matter unless all of the product stays in the US/Canada once refined? I am sure Valero loves Canada and their sour product but where does it go once refined? The fact we give Valero business does not mean it is beneficial to the US consumer on the same scale.

    My comment about Dorsey was as stated so many times, you guys mention "free speech" as if it exists or that it should exist. My point is that it exists the same proportion that it did with Dorsey as it does with Musk, free speech does not exist and it should not exist because mankind is not capable of conducting free speech in a way that functions in a society. So you can say that Musk does this and Dorsey did that, the fact you agree with Musk does not mean that speech is any more free than it was before nor that it should be more free. Reading twitter files does not change the fact that speech has to be protected and observed due to our toxic human nature, we are too selfish and stupid to be responsible enough to truly share free speech. Its a grand old flag sort of mantra "free speech" but it cant exist outside of folklore and theory, and the wonderful thing about this country is someone is not FORCED to use Twitter under either ownership as the sole means of sharing opinions and running our mouths to get attention or news. So if the version of Twitter was offensive to you under Dorsey then do not use it, if under Musk then do not use it. Find value in what you want and move along, I do that all the time with many media sources, I find most all of them biased and slanted and none are pure and altruistic, that is the real point.

     
    UNIMAN
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    Posted: Oct. 30, 2023 - 3:09 PM ET #1199

    Now they are sending it "BACK". Show us all a factual link to this claim. 

     

    Politifact even said Obama's statement on Keystone was FALSE.

    https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2014/nov/20/barack-obama/obama-says-keystone-xl-exporting-oil-experts-disag/

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    Now they are sending it "BACK". Show us all a factual link to this claim. 

     

    Politifact even said Obama's statement on Keystone was FALSE.

    https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2014/nov/20/barack-obama/obama-says-keystone-xl-exporting-oil-experts-disag/

     
     
    wallstreetcappers
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    Posted: Oct. 30, 2023 - 3:52 PM ET #1200

    @UNIMAN

     The point is that Canada in order to use their exports have to import it since they are not at all equipped for sour refining. Do you understand that concept? To follow your logic that their product stays here as you are suggesting, then we have to follow that next step from refining to delivery of products made from the sour sludge that they call molasses in Canada. So Canada has to take that first product from Alberta normally and get it to the gulf, then it is refined and separated and then those products are used as you say domestically...so how does product from deep gulf Texas get to Canada again? I am using your theory here that Canada exports are not sent to China and India that they are kept here...so how does the producer gain access to their product? The number of transport options are limited right?

    I know that down here a few years ago there was a pipeline issue from Texas to Arizona and it caused a massive problem when the fix needed to take place and the pipeline was shut down..it caused a huge price spike that lasted longer than it needed to but was for sure damaging to the consumer and the environment.

    Canada does have a few sweet refineries but not the sour tooling required for their tar/fracking products. 

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    @UNIMAN

     The point is that Canada in order to use their exports have to import it since they are not at all equipped for sour refining. Do you understand that concept? To follow your logic that their product stays here as you are suggesting, then we have to follow that next step from refining to delivery of products made from the sour sludge that they call molasses in Canada. So Canada has to take that first product from Alberta normally and get it to the gulf, then it is refined and separated and then those products are used as you say domestically...so how does product from deep gulf Texas get to Canada again? I am using your theory here that Canada exports are not sent to China and India that they are kept here...so how does the producer gain access to their product? The number of transport options are limited right?

    I know that down here a few years ago there was a pipeline issue from Texas to Arizona and it caused a massive problem when the fix needed to take place and the pipeline was shut down..it caused a huge price spike that lasted longer than it needed to but was for sure damaging to the consumer and the environment.

    Canada does have a few sweet refineries but not the sour tooling required for their tar/fracking products. 

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