AgentCooper

I was reading about the shooting that happened recently in CA, where a kid brought a shotgun in and started targeting kids he I guess had a beef with.  In the comments section were all these posts by people who remembered the days when they actually brought their guns to school and went birdshooting and whatnot and actually kept their guns in their lockers.  Can we all agree that times have changed?  All I'm saying is that gun owners need to recognize that and be flexible with changing times.

Aren't pro-gun people....shooting themselves in the foot....(pun....intended???)...by taking such a hard-assed stance?  You guys need to do a better job of compromising cuz unfortunately gun tragedies are going to just keep happening and then the pendulum will swing so far to one way that NOBODY will be allowed to have guns.  I'm not saying I want that, just that society will get so fed up that the only clear answer will be to remove guns from the equation, period.  So if you love guns, isn't it in your best interests to not let that happen?

Isn't this debate a little like wire-tapping?  Meaning, I don't want my phones tapped, but, if tapping certain people's phones prevents thousands of innocent people dying in a terrorist attack, then isn't it worth it?  I'm not doing anything illegal so why do I care?  If I'm a gun owner, and I'm not misusing my gun, then why do I care about stricter rules?  Aren't I ultimately safer? 

Lol, thanks Rick, I just speak my mind is all.

S*it like this posse does not solve anything.  I don't want these pseudo-police with guns anywhere near me and my family the same way I don't want psychopaths with guns anywhere near me and my family.  I mean, how hard is it to understand that?

Yea, I get it, there's lots of guns out there.  What I don't understand is why gun owners and pro-gun people aren't outraged by that.  The BEST solution you can come up with is "oh well, since bad guys can easily get guns then I need to be easily get guns."  LOL, it's ridiculous.  If that's the only solution to this issue then seriously you get an F minus in problem solving.

If you REALLY cared about protecting your family you'd support measures to reduce the amount of guns floating around and the ease of obtaining them.  You want your guns, fine...but then why don't you try to darn*in help instead of dragging society backwards.  I want to live in 2013, not the wild west, or during the Revolution.  14daroad is always putting up stats...find me some stats on gun violence during Billy the Kid's days, what was life expectancy then?  How many gun deaths were there? 

BTW, you all know the founding fathers never anticipated this level of weaponry.  For f*cks sake was SOAP even invented yet??

What happens when lazer guns are invented?  Or sonic blasters capable of melting your head clean off?  Come on people...

Some of the things we've invented, while world-changing, just don't have a place in day to day society.  George Washington would be ashamed of you.  You KNOW this isn't what they meant.  He smoked weed you know....

Bigvern, I'm sure if I asked some cops they would ADVISE me not to engage the intruder and instead let them do their JOBS.  But that's not the point.  I'm not saying that I would cower in the corner, I'm saying I would try my hardest not to engage, that's all.

And I AM taking responsibility for my own safety.  I'm saying I only want guns in the hands of responsible people trained to use them.  Not in the hands of the mentally ill, or criminals, or children.  Isn't that what you want, too?  All I keep hearing is "you're infringing on my rights" but no solutions.  One novel idea might be to have a gun-free world, but since nobody wants to hear that (even tho Jesus would approve), what do you propose?

If God exists then He must be so proud of the culture of violence we've created for ourselves.  Instead of just getting rid of guns we just give more people more guns! 

There are cops in CT, right?  That didn't stop that maniac...what makes you think these guys will?  Seems to me like it's just an excuse for a bunch of gun-happy clownshoes to show off their toys...

14, why would you assume I'd be dead?  I would think I'd be much safer in a room with the door closed and my gun pointed at the door waiting for the intruder to open it so I could blast them...then creeping around my house with my pistol in my hand looking to engage the person in a shootout.  Don't I have the advantage if I "lay in wait" as opposed to searching for the person who could be anywhere?  The bottom line is, I want to walk away with my life, not risk it needlessly.  So whether I have no gun, one gun, or 6 zillion guns, I would prefer not to have to use it and engage the person unless it was totally necessary.  The mofo can have my TV, I can replace that, I can't replace my children if a stray bullet blows their head off.

(BTW, why so much fear that roving bands of armed robbers are just dying to break into your houses in the middle of the night when they KNOW you're home sleeping?  Are there really that many criminals out there in the suburbs?  I would think if you live in a relatively safe area that your fear of this even happening is way overblown.  More likely some teenage clown would just wait till your on vacation to break into your house to see if they can grab cash or jewelry, then a half-cocked gun-toting maniac would break into your home at 2am and need your big screen TV so badly that he's willing to shoot you all to death for it.)

My first rant was just a shitty attempt at humor and just me saying that I feel uncomfortable around guns.  I don't think that makes me any less of a man or any less capable of protecting my family.  I saw someone post somewhere that "it's becuase of guns that you're free to have the opinions you have."  I disagree.  I could just as easily say that it's because of peace treaties and disarmament agreements that we haven't destoryed mankind completely at this point.

If you think the world is safer with more guns in the hands of more people then why stop there?  Then let me have a nuclear warhead, because if you don't then you're infringing on my right to protect my family in case of an alien invasion.  I mean, where does the line get drawn? 

We all want the same thing, we don't want our rights infringed but we also don't want senseless gun violence.  The excuse "well, it's tragic but accidents happen" just isn't good enough anymore.  It's in everyone's best interests to keep guns out of the hands of insane people, or inept people, or children...so what measures can we take to make that happen?

lol

Potter, I disagree, in a way.  I'm not saying let's ban cars cuz people die in car accidents.  Guns are different.  We all know what they're main use is (remember Homer Simpson bought a gun and was using it by shooting it around the house to turn his TV on and open his beer, etc, lol).  I mean, most people don't use cars or chainsaws or drop pianos on people to kill them.  So yea, accidents happen...we can't ban everything just cuz people die in random accidents but we can try to curb senseless violence.  And I'm not even proposing a ban on guns at all.  I'm just saying that guns should only be maintained by responsible people, that's all.  And if a few crazy individuals make the burdon of proof on the responisible people harder, well then, sorry, that's just the way it is.  If all the sudden car accidents went ballistic, then I would think we would need to do a better job of who we're approving to be behind the wheel.  I mean, it just makes sense to me.  There's got to be middle ground...ways to keep pro-gun people happy while keeping guns out of the hands of the crazies.

And 14, you're ridiculous bro.  It seems every attempt by the rest of society to make the world safer and better is somehow an infringement on your god given rights.  You're saying I don't have the right to ensure that each and every gun owner is competent (to a higher level of degree than we're currently checking)??

I don't think any politician goes to bed at night thinking "hmm, how can I destroy the liberties of individuals tomorrow?  I know!  I'll start by taking their guns away and we'll see how far I can take it until the entire society is reduced to a mindless slave workforce.  Yay!"  Sounds like a lot of conspiracy theory garbage to me.

I think politicians, and society, are reacting to what happened:  LITTLE KIDS GETTING THEIR HEADS BLOWN OFF.

How about putting it this way:

If you want to own guns...for hunting, recreation, protection or just simply cuz you love guns and are fascinated by them....fine.  Have all the guns you want.  Have sex with them, if you like.  What you do in the privacy of your own home doesn't concern me.

BUT, you must 100% UNEQUIVOCALLY guarantee me that your guns will NEVER harm my family.  The burden should be on you, the gun owner, to be constantly able to prove that your killing tools (which is what they are, let's be real) are not a threat at all to MY family.

I'll be damned if I ever have to put my kids in harm's way cuz your psychotic child got bullied and now feels the need to grab daddys guns and go on a killing spree.  YOU show ME, and the rest of society, that that cannot, will not ever happen, and we're cool.

Thanks guys for the feedback.  Bowl, I agree that poor parenting contributes to a TON of the problems this country faces, at least with troubled teens.  If more kids were raised properly to respect each other and to be able to separate fantasy from reality, I feel there would be less of these ridiculous issues.  And DL is right about proliferating guns...you're telling me my kids would be safer at the mall if everyone was walking around with guns?  Come on, that logic makes no sense.  The NRA and lobbyists need to stop trying to force feed that twisted notion to everyone.  Then let's let every country stockpile nuclear warheads...would we all be safer then?  It's the same concept...

14, you can throw all the stats at me you want, they're meaningless to me.  I'm sure I could find just as many stats that refute everything you say.  I'm not talking stats anyway, I'm talking culture.  Take your stats and go talk to the father of a little girl who just got her brains blown out the back of her head.  I'm sure that guy would love hearing how safe we all are.

It's fine to watch a Tarantino movie and revel in the violence.  But we have a big problem in this country when it translates from that fantasy to reality.  If you want to love guns, then fine.  I don't get it personally.  To me they're tools.  I don't go into my garage and salivate over hammers and screwdrivers but whatever.  And if the world was overrun by zombies then for sure I'd wanna be armed to the teeth.  But that's fantaasy and doesn't compel me to want to have a gun.

And Bowl, I was joking about the random home searches.  Of course that's insane.  But we definately are at a point in this country now where SOMEthing needs to be done.  All I'm saying is that these violent gun acts are going to keep happening.  I'm sure one day there will be a rampage that makes what happened in CT look like a day at the park.  What then?  That's gonna be a bad day for pro-gun people, cuz society just won't stand for it.  Right now even CT is fading, every day that goes by stings less and less...but it's just gonna happen again, unfortunately.

If I was pro-gun I would WANT stricter control.  Wouldn't you?  It's like having your cake and eating it, too.  If I'm a responsible owner then I get to have my arsenal, while also knowing that those few bad apples out there are way less likely to obtain guns themselves.

I've never had any desire to ever own or fire a gun.  I have friends who love guns and hunting and I'll never understand what makes them think any of that is cool.  It's completely ridiculous to me.  Well, the hunting aspect...OK...I can understand (somewhat) but still...

Even if I lived in some shitty ghetto neighborhood and needed a gun because I was under constant threat of home invasion, I would LOATHE the fact that I had to have a gun.  I would be at work constantly worrying that my kids could get to it, no matter how secure it was.  That's where me and gun lovers will never see eye to eye...they cherish and collect killing machines as if they're fucking Star Wars action figures.  Me, I see them for what they are: leathal killing weapons that I don't ever want to be around, nor have my kids around, and certainly don't want flooded into the populace and into the hands of every half-cocked Joe Dickface walking around out there.

I especially love the "the answer is more guns" schtick.  Good idea, give every asshole a gun.  What will happen is the next time you inadvertently cut someone off on the highway, or bump into someone on a line somewhere you're going to get your head blown off, because there are just too many demented idiots out there.

Even if I had a gun and was trained to use it, if someone broke into my house I STILL wouldn't want to confront them.  I'd grab my wife and kids, huddle them in a room and shout to the intruder "I have a gun, don't enter this room or I'll shoot" and then I'd call the police.  You clowns thinking that you'd disable the robber and look like a hero are watching too many Jason Bourne movies.  Here's a clue:  you're not Jason Bourne and you're most likely going to kill one of your own family members.  I read some people's thoughts on the matter and it's almost as if they WANT to get burgled so they can test out their "toy."  Totally insane.

But fine, you feel the need to compensate for your tiny dick by having an arsenal of guns, ok.  Well, I say we put you through the ringer.  Make it SO difficult and such a pain in the ass that you'll wonder why you thought owning a gun was a good idea in the first place.  Fuck background checks, that's just the tip of the iceberg.  You want to own a deadly weapon then I want random searches of your house by a government official to make sure you have a gun safe and that that shit is locked up tight.  I want you to go to monthly gun training meetings to make sure you know what the fuck you're doing and make sure you're still mentally capable.  I want the laws to be so strict that if you decide to keep a gun then you are making one hell of a SERIOUS committment.  And all those illegal guns floating around out there?  Well, if you're ever caught with one then it means instant testicle removal.  And if you don't like my new laws then build a time machine and transport your ass back to 1843 where it was more apporpriate to walk around with weapons strapped to your hip like a douchebag.  Have fun living to the ripe old age of 33.

I'm sick of this nonsense.  These are weapons designed to kill people, not fucking toys.  Don't get me wrong, I love violent movies and video games, etc.  But I'll never understand the real-life love of guns.  Owning a gun shouldn't be "awesome," it should be a BURDEN.

Ok, here were some clues from the beginning of the thread:

good but not bad, yankees but not redsox, moon but not stars.

Um, ok.  I'm not seeing it, and yes, I guess I'm retarded.  So by the above logic then "left but not right" or "on but not off" should be correct, no?

Kardashians but not mutants

Is that correct?

I see both sides to the argument.  I personally have zero interest in guns.  I wouldn't care one bit if they were all banned.  But sure, I would rather have a gun in my hand if someone broke into my house.  (Although, come on people, stop acting like you're all Jason Bourne, most of you would try to protect your families but end up probably blowing your own nuts off instead)

It's a tough subject with lots of moving parts but my question is this:  If you're a gun lover, you own 20 guns, you clean them, store them, handle them properly and would never even want to use them on a human being, but you send your child to school one day and then learn that half her head was blown off by some psycho with a gun...how can you love guns after that?

Unfortunately, I think you blew your shot.  These kinds of things need to happen right away.  You should've made your move the very instant you saw her, this was all you needed to do:

(As she's handing you your slimy gross food, and you're walking away, letting her get to the next customer)

You: "Dammmn, you're soooo cute, I'm totally adding you on FB later (insert her name here), watch!"

Her: "Um, lol, OK! tee hee"

Simple as that.  The more you lurk around, coming back every other day, etc, the weirder you look.  It's WAY better to just be spontaneous.  Girls love that shit anyway.  Think about it, doing it my way, you're kind of this fun stranger who made her chuckle...now she's curious...just who is this guy, is he really gonna friend me?  You just gave her something cool to look forward to, and then when you DO friend her, you're just following up on what you already told her you would do, and it's not creepy.

These days, utilizing the internet and getting laid from it is perfectly acceptable.  It's soooo much easier now.  Back in the day, you would've had to chat that girl up to the point where maybe you got her number.  FB and all this other shit can get you laid even if you have zero game.  Now you can just tell any cute girl you bump into "oh man, you're so awesome, thanks for helping me out...I totally have to friend you now."  Maybe I'm dead wrong, but I'm thinking from the girl's point of view it's easier to handle than some dude offering to buy her a drink, or asking outright for her number. 

Once you're "friends" then you just have the normal "getting-to-know-you-chit-chat-about-random-bullshit" convos until you know she's comfortable.  Then you bust out with "so can we just go out this Friday and get raging drunk?  I need it after this week...I hope you'll be able to carry me home."  Everyone laughs, you get laid, you're welcome.

I WISH they had smartphones, FB, apps, etc back in my heyday, I would've drowned in box. 

I def agree with post #20 about how some people cling to the Constitution as if it's infallible.  It's an amazing document.  A work of art, really.  But that doesn't mean we shouldn't question it from time to time. 

And I think we're barking up the wrong tree, militarily.  "Wars" are different now.  We no longer line up on each side of a battlefield and shoot muskets at each other.  Maybe build less aircraft carriers and war planes?  Take that savings and pay for healthcare?  Beef up protection of our powergrids, financial institutions and farmlands and we're all good.

Dirt, you can't argue with them, it's hopeless.  If you question even ONE thing you're instantly branded a religion-hating lazy liberal.  Where the notion came from that liberals don't work hard to put food on the table is beyond me. 

Anyway, a few thousand years from now the religions that exist now will have been discarded and replaced by other garbage.  Just as it has been throughout history.