I'm also trying to make sense of everything. It's so amazing that the human brain can't even fathom the vastness of the universe (at least mine can't anyway)... When I was younger I would stay up at night just trying to wrap my brain around it. Our existence is so meaningless in the grand scheme of things. It's truly remarkable. I'm just going to enjoy my life, and if there is a god and he can't understand why I didn't believe, then I'd rather be in hell because I don't want to be around someone like that. At least Satan is probably more understanding! Lol
I tried to fathom the vastness of the universe as well. I became very afraid. Scared the shit out of me.
Quote Originally Posted by Mikniks:
I'm also trying to make sense of everything. It's so amazing that the human brain can't even fathom the vastness of the universe (at least mine can't anyway)... When I was younger I would stay up at night just trying to wrap my brain around it. Our existence is so meaningless in the grand scheme of things. It's truly remarkable. I'm just going to enjoy my life, and if there is a god and he can't understand why I didn't believe, then I'd rather be in hell because I don't want to be around someone like that. At least Satan is probably more understanding! Lol
I tried to fathom the vastness of the universe as well. I became very afraid. Scared the shit out of me.
Firstly, if god was all powerful he would just get rid of satan.
If god was intelligent he wouldnt have given us free will. People then say well it is the only way we can distinguish between happy and sad and such emotions, but there is no reason an all powerful god couldnt just make us all robots that always do good and are constantly happy. It's almost as if we are an experiment for him, but he wouldn't need to experiment because he is all knowing right?
In due time He will get rid of satan as prophesied in the Book of Revelation. He is letting His devine plan play out. We can already see some things that were prophesied in the Book of Revelation are slowly coming to be a reality.
They already have chips that they implant in people's pets so they can find them when they get lost. I'm sure you heard of the sign of the beast haven't you? Well eventually people are going to have these chips implanted in them to be able purchase their food and other neccessities.
Anyways the Book of Revelation has prophesies that need to come to pass to be fulfilled and eventually it will be, we just don't know when exactly. The Book of Revelation also tells us that Jesus will be returning to set up His rule on earth.
God is intelligent and that's why He gave us the gift of free will. This way He could find out who really loves Him and who really hates Him. He is not going to force you to love Him or hate Him it's up to you that's why we have the free will. The choice is yours to make.
He is all knowing, He knows who hates Him and who loves Him. Right now a person could hate Him but later on could begin to love Him and so He doesn't give up on people because He knows they can change.
I could never hate Him as you do. And please don't tell me you don't hate Him at the moment. All your previous posts up to the present gives evidence of your hatred towards Him or you don't want there to be a God.
You have been mocking Him and ridiculing Him on many of your posts. So I just don't know how you will ever change your attitude and start loving Him but of course He knows if you will or not.
Quote Originally Posted by Mikniks:
Firstly, if god was all powerful he would just get rid of satan.
If god was intelligent he wouldnt have given us free will. People then say well it is the only way we can distinguish between happy and sad and such emotions, but there is no reason an all powerful god couldnt just make us all robots that always do good and are constantly happy. It's almost as if we are an experiment for him, but he wouldn't need to experiment because he is all knowing right?
In due time He will get rid of satan as prophesied in the Book of Revelation. He is letting His devine plan play out. We can already see some things that were prophesied in the Book of Revelation are slowly coming to be a reality.
They already have chips that they implant in people's pets so they can find them when they get lost. I'm sure you heard of the sign of the beast haven't you? Well eventually people are going to have these chips implanted in them to be able purchase their food and other neccessities.
Anyways the Book of Revelation has prophesies that need to come to pass to be fulfilled and eventually it will be, we just don't know when exactly. The Book of Revelation also tells us that Jesus will be returning to set up His rule on earth.
God is intelligent and that's why He gave us the gift of free will. This way He could find out who really loves Him and who really hates Him. He is not going to force you to love Him or hate Him it's up to you that's why we have the free will. The choice is yours to make.
He is all knowing, He knows who hates Him and who loves Him. Right now a person could hate Him but later on could begin to love Him and so He doesn't give up on people because He knows they can change.
I could never hate Him as you do. And please don't tell me you don't hate Him at the moment. All your previous posts up to the present gives evidence of your hatred towards Him or you don't want there to be a God.
You have been mocking Him and ridiculing Him on many of your posts. So I just don't know how you will ever change your attitude and start loving Him but of course He knows if you will or not.
In a way you are right. They only want to debate non-believers. Which is fine. They have no interest in talking with people who believe in something different from them. It doesn't work for those types. I would assume that you don't believe in a higher power from what I've seen in your posts. The difference is I could have a normal discussion with you and not try to tell you I am right in my thoughts. Because in the end my thoughts are the same as anyone else's. All bullshit, cause no one knows.
I totally disagree... I lean heavily on the Atheist side. But must admit religion fascinates me. My problem is I have seen how religion can be used to control the way people act and behave. How religion has been used to gain power over others. How religion has been used to gain sexual favor. How religion has been used to make money. How religion has been used as an excuse for rape, torture, and murder. How religion has been used as an excuse for waging war. How religion was used as an excuse in American to take the children of native Americans and attempt to destroy their culture.
I do realize not all religious professionals are bad or evil. I have great respect for someone who takes the clergy as a profession.
And I know there are lots of great things done by religious organizations.
But for someone not raised in a religious household and seeing all the evil that has been done by religious leaders and in the name of religion... It is hard to accept with blind faith that God exists. And then comes the question as to which religious organization is right.
And you know they don't agree on the requirements for salvation/redemption...
Then when you throw in all the other religions... It really does get confusing... I keep wondering (a question meant to all who hold their religion near and dear)... What makes your religion the right religion?
I am all eyes as to an answer and do not mock those that believe.
Quote Originally Posted by Drizle:
In a way you are right. They only want to debate non-believers. Which is fine. They have no interest in talking with people who believe in something different from them. It doesn't work for those types. I would assume that you don't believe in a higher power from what I've seen in your posts. The difference is I could have a normal discussion with you and not try to tell you I am right in my thoughts. Because in the end my thoughts are the same as anyone else's. All bullshit, cause no one knows.
I totally disagree... I lean heavily on the Atheist side. But must admit religion fascinates me. My problem is I have seen how religion can be used to control the way people act and behave. How religion has been used to gain power over others. How religion has been used to gain sexual favor. How religion has been used to make money. How religion has been used as an excuse for rape, torture, and murder. How religion has been used as an excuse for waging war. How religion was used as an excuse in American to take the children of native Americans and attempt to destroy their culture.
I do realize not all religious professionals are bad or evil. I have great respect for someone who takes the clergy as a profession.
And I know there are lots of great things done by religious organizations.
But for someone not raised in a religious household and seeing all the evil that has been done by religious leaders and in the name of religion... It is hard to accept with blind faith that God exists. And then comes the question as to which religious organization is right.
And you know they don't agree on the requirements for salvation/redemption...
Then when you throw in all the other religions... It really does get confusing... I keep wondering (a question meant to all who hold their religion near and dear)... What makes your religion the right religion?
I am all eyes as to an answer and do not mock those that believe.
Why is your god a jealous god? I would think a supreme being that created the earth and the universe wouldn't hold such human traits like jealousy, but yours does? Please explain.
This question arises from a lack of understanding of the word jelousy. Theer is a difference between Sinful jelousy and holy jelousy.
Sinful jelousy is when we see others have something and we desire it ourselves, ie, other peoples fame, car, money etc etc.
Holy jelousy is refering to our love and adoration which belongs solely to him. He is jelous in a holy jelousy when we worship other Gods in idoltry......
The hebrew translation is from zelous which is a loving jelousy, which is different to sinful jelousy....
So, Gods jelousy is NOT our jelousy when we want what others have, rather when something that belongs to him - our love, is used and commited to other Gods, because our love is his love...Ie, he doesnt want what we have....
Quote Originally Posted by Drizle:
Why is your god a jealous god? I would think a supreme being that created the earth and the universe wouldn't hold such human traits like jealousy, but yours does? Please explain.
This question arises from a lack of understanding of the word jelousy. Theer is a difference between Sinful jelousy and holy jelousy.
Sinful jelousy is when we see others have something and we desire it ourselves, ie, other peoples fame, car, money etc etc.
Holy jelousy is refering to our love and adoration which belongs solely to him. He is jelous in a holy jelousy when we worship other Gods in idoltry......
The hebrew translation is from zelous which is a loving jelousy, which is different to sinful jelousy....
So, Gods jelousy is NOT our jelousy when we want what others have, rather when something that belongs to him - our love, is used and commited to other Gods, because our love is his love...Ie, he doesnt want what we have....
The books of the Old Testament were written from approximately 1400 B.C. to 400 B.C. The books of the New Testament were written from approximately A.D. 40 to A.D. 90. So, anywhere between 3400 to 1900 years have passed since a book of the Bible was written. In this time, the original manuscripts have been lost.
They very likely no longer exist. Also during this time, the books of the Bible have been copied again and again. Copies of copies of copies have been made. In view of this, can we still trust the Bible?
When God originally inspired men to write His Word, it was God-breathed and inerrant (2 Timothy 3:16-17; John 17:17). (C'mon man... I specifically said that you can't do this. I really appreciate you attempting to answer, but this isn't allowed. You're trying to verify the truth of the document; that means you can't reference it in order to help prove it. I have to take out every statement like this in your conclusion)
The Bible nowhere applies this to copies of the original manuscripts. As meticulous as scribes were with the replication of the Scriptures, no one is perfect. As a result, minor differences arose in the various copies of the Scriptures. Of all of the thousands of Greek and Hebrew manuscripts that are in existence, no two were identical until the printing press was invented in the A.D. 1500s. (This is exactly the point I'm making...)
However, any unbiased document scholar will agree that the Bible has been remarkably well-preserved over the centuries. (But the originals are lost, so how do we know?)
Copies of the Bible dating to the 14th century A.D. are nearly identical in content to copies from the 3rd century A.D. (But that's not when they were written originally, so who knows what happened before then)
There is absolutely no evidence that the Bible has been revised, edited, or tampered with in any systematic manner. (You just stated that inaccuracies have arisen over the years)
Again, the question, can we trust the Bible? Absolutely! God has preserved His Word despite the unintentional failings and intentional attacks of human beings.(But you said he hasn't...?) We can have utmost confidence that the Bible we have today is the same Bible that was originally written. The Bible is God’s Word, and we can trust it (2 Timothy 3:16; Matthew 5:18). (Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooot allowedddddddddddddddddddddd)
Quote Originally Posted by matt4000:
Sugarbear19,
The books of the Old Testament were written from approximately 1400 B.C. to 400 B.C. The books of the New Testament were written from approximately A.D. 40 to A.D. 90. So, anywhere between 3400 to 1900 years have passed since a book of the Bible was written. In this time, the original manuscripts have been lost.
They very likely no longer exist. Also during this time, the books of the Bible have been copied again and again. Copies of copies of copies have been made. In view of this, can we still trust the Bible?
When God originally inspired men to write His Word, it was God-breathed and inerrant (2 Timothy 3:16-17; John 17:17). (C'mon man... I specifically said that you can't do this. I really appreciate you attempting to answer, but this isn't allowed. You're trying to verify the truth of the document; that means you can't reference it in order to help prove it. I have to take out every statement like this in your conclusion)
The Bible nowhere applies this to copies of the original manuscripts. As meticulous as scribes were with the replication of the Scriptures, no one is perfect. As a result, minor differences arose in the various copies of the Scriptures. Of all of the thousands of Greek and Hebrew manuscripts that are in existence, no two were identical until the printing press was invented in the A.D. 1500s. (This is exactly the point I'm making...)
However, any unbiased document scholar will agree that the Bible has been remarkably well-preserved over the centuries. (But the originals are lost, so how do we know?)
Copies of the Bible dating to the 14th century A.D. are nearly identical in content to copies from the 3rd century A.D. (But that's not when they were written originally, so who knows what happened before then)
There is absolutely no evidence that the Bible has been revised, edited, or tampered with in any systematic manner. (You just stated that inaccuracies have arisen over the years)
Again, the question, can we trust the Bible? Absolutely! God has preserved His Word despite the unintentional failings and intentional attacks of human beings.(But you said he hasn't...?) We can have utmost confidence that the Bible we have today is the same Bible that was originally written. The Bible is God’s Word, and we can trust it (2 Timothy 3:16; Matthew 5:18). (Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooot allowedddddddddddddddddddddd)
You said... b) How can you use any shred of it as evidence for anything when you know parts of the book are incorrect as they were originally intended, AND that "supposively" (as SirJohnDrake might say) some of it is to be taken metaphorically?
It is to be taken Literally!
Not only can we take the Bible literally, but we must take the Bible literally.(Keep this statement in mind)
This is the only way to determine what God really is trying to communicate to us. When we read any piece of literature, but especially the Bible, we must determine what the author intended to communicate. (But the "author" is a god, so how can a god be subject to context or intention?)
Many today will read a verse or passage of Scripture and then give their own definitions to the words, phrases, or paragraphs, ignoring the context and author’s intent. But this is not what God intended, which is why God tells us to correctly handle the Word of truth (2 Timothy 2:15). (This is making me mad )
One reason we should take the Bible literally is because the Lord Jesus Christ took it literally. Whenever the Lord Jesus quoted from the Old Testament, it was always clear that He believed in its literal interpretation. As an example, when Jesus was tempted by Satan in Luke 4, He answered by quoting the Old Testament. If God’s commands in Deuteronomy 8:3, 6:13, and 6:16 were not literal, Jesus would not have used them and they would have been powerless to stop Satan’s mouth, which they certainly did.
The disciples also took the commands of Christ (which are part of the Bible) literally. Jesus commanded the disciples to go and make more disciples in Matthew 28:19-20. In Acts 2 and following, we find that the disciples took Jesus' command literally and went throughout the known world of that time preaching the gospel of Christ and telling them to "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved” (Acts 16:31).
Just as the disciples took Jesus’ words literally, so must we. How else can we be sure of our salvation if we do not believe Him when He says He came to seek and save the lost (Luke 19:10), pay the penalty for our sin (Matthew 26:28), and provide eternal life (John 6:54)?
Although we take the Bible literally, there are still figures of speech within its pages.
There are figures of speech in the Bible which are not to be taken literally, but those are obvious. (See Psalm 17:8 for example.) (Are they? If they are, then why hasn't someone compiled a list of all things that are meant to be taken metaphorically and that which is meant to be taken literally?)
The Bible is God’s Word to us and He meant it to be believed—literally and completely. (Then why does he include "figures of speech" to cloud our interpretation)
Quote Originally Posted by matt4000:
Sugarbear,
You said... b) How can you use any shred of it as evidence for anything when you know parts of the book are incorrect as they were originally intended, AND that "supposively" (as SirJohnDrake might say) some of it is to be taken metaphorically?
It is to be taken Literally!
Not only can we take the Bible literally, but we must take the Bible literally.(Keep this statement in mind)
This is the only way to determine what God really is trying to communicate to us. When we read any piece of literature, but especially the Bible, we must determine what the author intended to communicate. (But the "author" is a god, so how can a god be subject to context or intention?)
Many today will read a verse or passage of Scripture and then give their own definitions to the words, phrases, or paragraphs, ignoring the context and author’s intent. But this is not what God intended, which is why God tells us to correctly handle the Word of truth (2 Timothy 2:15). (This is making me mad )
One reason we should take the Bible literally is because the Lord Jesus Christ took it literally. Whenever the Lord Jesus quoted from the Old Testament, it was always clear that He believed in its literal interpretation. As an example, when Jesus was tempted by Satan in Luke 4, He answered by quoting the Old Testament. If God’s commands in Deuteronomy 8:3, 6:13, and 6:16 were not literal, Jesus would not have used them and they would have been powerless to stop Satan’s mouth, which they certainly did.
The disciples also took the commands of Christ (which are part of the Bible) literally. Jesus commanded the disciples to go and make more disciples in Matthew 28:19-20. In Acts 2 and following, we find that the disciples took Jesus' command literally and went throughout the known world of that time preaching the gospel of Christ and telling them to "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved” (Acts 16:31).
Just as the disciples took Jesus’ words literally, so must we. How else can we be sure of our salvation if we do not believe Him when He says He came to seek and save the lost (Luke 19:10), pay the penalty for our sin (Matthew 26:28), and provide eternal life (John 6:54)?
Although we take the Bible literally, there are still figures of speech within its pages.
There are figures of speech in the Bible which are not to be taken literally, but those are obvious. (See Psalm 17:8 for example.) (Are they? If they are, then why hasn't someone compiled a list of all things that are meant to be taken metaphorically and that which is meant to be taken literally?)
The Bible is God’s Word to us and He meant it to be believed—literally and completely. (Then why does he include "figures of speech" to cloud our interpretation)
Hey matt... I was going to continue our debate and attempting to debunk some of your claims, but I'm starting to suspect that you are not answering these questions yourself, but instead stealing from other people who have attempted to answer the same thing. I don't appreciate you plagiarizing from another in order to provide an unnecessarily dense response. Please understand that this is the only reason I will not continue to debate with you... You answers are well-structured but still logically implausible, and although I wanted to thank you for trying to valiantly to answer me, it seems all you've done is copy and paste and I don't appreciate that
Here is the website I believe you took your second answer almost word for word from
Hey matt... I was going to continue our debate and attempting to debunk some of your claims, but I'm starting to suspect that you are not answering these questions yourself, but instead stealing from other people who have attempted to answer the same thing. I don't appreciate you plagiarizing from another in order to provide an unnecessarily dense response. Please understand that this is the only reason I will not continue to debate with you... You answers are well-structured but still logically implausible, and although I wanted to thank you for trying to valiantly to answer me, it seems all you've done is copy and paste and I don't appreciate that
Here is the website I believe you took your second answer almost word for word from
I guess you haven't been keeping up with the entire thread. If you did you would have known that not a single one of us believers ever came on here to say it is fact what we believe in.
This is a WONDERFUL statement, because it illustrates a principle I've suspected all along...
First of all, some of you HAVE stated that you KNOW you are correct, so don't generalize. Secondly, you just admitted that you don't "believe" 100% and that you concede there's a possibility you are wrong. So how can you justify "believing" something so fully as to dedicate your life to it when you ADMIT that you have no idea whether you're right or not?
Quote Originally Posted by SirJohnDrake:
I guess you haven't been keeping up with the entire thread. If you did you would have known that not a single one of us believers ever came on here to say it is fact what we believe in.
This is a WONDERFUL statement, because it illustrates a principle I've suspected all along...
First of all, some of you HAVE stated that you KNOW you are correct, so don't generalize. Secondly, you just admitted that you don't "believe" 100% and that you concede there's a possibility you are wrong. So how can you justify "believing" something so fully as to dedicate your life to it when you ADMIT that you have no idea whether you're right or not?
I have gotten ONE attempt at answering these questions, and all the volunteer could do was plagiarize from other websites and give obscenely dense and logically unsound answers... Therefore, to those other than copyright infringers like Matt, I have some questions, and I STILL want some answers:
1) Ex4Life, Rostos, Smoothd have ALL admitted that the Bible has been edited, changed, rewritten, parts lost, etc. By comparison, if I showed you an old history book and said: "Out of 20 chapters, 8 of them are historically inaccurate because of rewrites or missing pieces," you wouldn't give the book a second look. In Ex4Life's masterpiece composition of idiocy (where he uses lines from the BIBLE to prove that the BIBLE is true, a method that would get him laughed out of even special education classes), even he admits that it's a book that's been written by 50+ authors over 1000+, not to mention we have NO IDEA what's supposed to be "metaphor" and what's "real." So:
a) How can you trust a single word in that book when you ACCEPT that parts of it are changed from its original state?
b) How can you use any shred of it as evidence for anything when you know parts of the book are incorrect as they were originally intended, AND that "supposively" (as SirJohnDrake might say) some of it is to be taken metaphorically?
2)How do you justify Christianity over any other religion? How is it any more valid than say Islam, Buddhism, Scientology, Magicology, Santaology, TheWorldSprangFromAdam'sErectPenisOlogy, etc...?
3) If you REALLY believe the world is 6,000 years old, how do you explain dinosaurs? Or ancient Egyptians? Or Mesopotamians?
4) Why, if Christianity such a peaceful religion (and if we are all "God's children," does the Bible condone killing (a) homosexuals, (b) non-virgins, (c) for hitting one's parents, among other things?
a) "If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to
death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives."
(Leviticus 20:13 NAB)
b) But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a
virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not
found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there
her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against
Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil
from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)
c) Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to
death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)
5) Why do we have a "spiritual void" if we don't believe in Christianity? Since a huge majority of the world ISN'T Christian, are they spiritually blind as well? Are only Christians correct? This refers to question two as well.
YOU CAN'T STEAL FROM OTHER PEOPLE. DO NOT MAKE THE ANSWERS PAGES AND PAGES LONG BECAUSE THERE'S NO REASON FOR IT. Oh, and as always:
IF ANYBODY TRIES TO REFERENCE THE BIBLE FOR ANY ANSWERS, YOU'RE A MORON. YOU CAN'T USE THE BIBLE AS EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS
I have gotten ONE attempt at answering these questions, and all the volunteer could do was plagiarize from other websites and give obscenely dense and logically unsound answers... Therefore, to those other than copyright infringers like Matt, I have some questions, and I STILL want some answers:
1) Ex4Life, Rostos, Smoothd have ALL admitted that the Bible has been edited, changed, rewritten, parts lost, etc. By comparison, if I showed you an old history book and said: "Out of 20 chapters, 8 of them are historically inaccurate because of rewrites or missing pieces," you wouldn't give the book a second look. In Ex4Life's masterpiece composition of idiocy (where he uses lines from the BIBLE to prove that the BIBLE is true, a method that would get him laughed out of even special education classes), even he admits that it's a book that's been written by 50+ authors over 1000+, not to mention we have NO IDEA what's supposed to be "metaphor" and what's "real." So:
a) How can you trust a single word in that book when you ACCEPT that parts of it are changed from its original state?
b) How can you use any shred of it as evidence for anything when you know parts of the book are incorrect as they were originally intended, AND that "supposively" (as SirJohnDrake might say) some of it is to be taken metaphorically?
2)How do you justify Christianity over any other religion? How is it any more valid than say Islam, Buddhism, Scientology, Magicology, Santaology, TheWorldSprangFromAdam'sErectPenisOlogy, etc...?
3) If you REALLY believe the world is 6,000 years old, how do you explain dinosaurs? Or ancient Egyptians? Or Mesopotamians?
4) Why, if Christianity such a peaceful religion (and if we are all "God's children," does the Bible condone killing (a) homosexuals, (b) non-virgins, (c) for hitting one's parents, among other things?
a) "If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to
death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives."
(Leviticus 20:13 NAB)
b) But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a
virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not
found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there
her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against
Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil
from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)
c) Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to
death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)
5) Why do we have a "spiritual void" if we don't believe in Christianity? Since a huge majority of the world ISN'T Christian, are they spiritually blind as well? Are only Christians correct? This refers to question two as well.
YOU CAN'T STEAL FROM OTHER PEOPLE. DO NOT MAKE THE ANSWERS PAGES AND PAGES LONG BECAUSE THERE'S NO REASON FOR IT. Oh, and as always:
IF ANYBODY TRIES TO REFERENCE THE BIBLE FOR ANY ANSWERS, YOU'RE A MORON. YOU CAN'T USE THE BIBLE AS EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS
This question arises from a lack of understanding of the word jelousy. Theer is a difference between Sinful jelousy and holy jelousy.
Sinful jelousy is when we see others have something and we desire it ourselves, ie, other peoples fame, car, money etc etc.
Holy jelousy is refering to our love and adoration which belongs solely to him. He is jelous in a holy jelousy when we worship other Gods in idoltry......
The hebrew translation is from zelous which is a loving jelousy, which is different to sinful jelousy....
So, Gods jelousy is NOT our jelousy when we want what others have, rather when something that belongs to him - our love, is used and commited to other Gods, because our love is his love...Ie, he doesnt want what we have....
I cn never tke you seariously.
Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:
This question arises from a lack of understanding of the word jelousy. Theer is a difference between Sinful jelousy and holy jelousy.
Sinful jelousy is when we see others have something and we desire it ourselves, ie, other peoples fame, car, money etc etc.
Holy jelousy is refering to our love and adoration which belongs solely to him. He is jelous in a holy jelousy when we worship other Gods in idoltry......
The hebrew translation is from zelous which is a loving jelousy, which is different to sinful jelousy....
So, Gods jelousy is NOT our jelousy when we want what others have, rather when something that belongs to him - our love, is used and commited to other Gods, because our love is his love...Ie, he doesnt want what we have....
In due time He will get rid of satan as prophesied in the Book of Revelation. He is letting His devine plan play out. We can already see some things that were prophesied in the Book of Revelation are slowly coming to be a reality.
They already have chips that they implant in people's pets so they can find them when they get lost. I'm sure you heard of the sign of the beast haven't you? Well eventually people are going to have these chips implanted in them to be able purchase their food and other neccessities.
Anyways the Book of Revelation has prophesies that need to come to pass to be fulfilled and eventually it will be, we just don't know when exactly. The Book of Revelation also tells us that Jesus will be returning to set up His rule on earth.
God is intelligent and that's why He gave us the gift of free will. This way He could find out who really loves Him and who really hates Him. He is not going to force you to love Him or hate Him it's up to you that's why we have the free will. The choice is yours to make.
He is all knowing, He knows who hates Him and who loves Him. Right now a person could hate Him but later on could begin to love Him and so He doesn't give up on people because He knows they can change.
I could never hate Him as you do. And please don't tell me you don't hate Him at the moment. All your previous posts up to the present gives evidence of your hatred towards Him or you don't want there to be a God.
You have been mocking Him and ridiculing Him on many of your posts. So I just don't know how you will ever change your attitude and start loving Him but of course He knows if you will or not.
I will color code this so you know what I'm referring to.
There is no evidence of a divine plan and regardless, why is all powerful god waiting so long to destroy Satan?
Right - prophecies - just like the guy that says we're gonna die in December. Or the one that said judgment day has came and went (and yet we're still here?) And we KNOW jesus can't return to rule on earth (at least no the same Jesus as before) because he's DEAD.
No intelligent god would give people free will. At least in my opinion. And while I could be wrong, the fact that I believe an intelligent god would not give his creations free will, or at least not unlimited free will, means we cannot make this assumption that god is either intelligent or should have given us free will. Additionally, I can't figure out a single reason why an all powerful god would want to create people to love him and care if they love him. That seems a very narcissistic thing to do, doesn't it? Just go out and create things to see if they love you? And then we can wonder why he created 1 species to do all this and about 10 billion more that couldn't.
Well, as Rostos would say, we cannot hate what doesn't exist. However, if god does exist and he is the god you think he is, I would walk right up to him and tell him to go fuck himself because he is a pretentious, narcissistic, douche bag.
Quote Originally Posted by SirJohnDrake:
In due time He will get rid of satan as prophesied in the Book of Revelation. He is letting His devine plan play out. We can already see some things that were prophesied in the Book of Revelation are slowly coming to be a reality.
They already have chips that they implant in people's pets so they can find them when they get lost. I'm sure you heard of the sign of the beast haven't you? Well eventually people are going to have these chips implanted in them to be able purchase their food and other neccessities.
Anyways the Book of Revelation has prophesies that need to come to pass to be fulfilled and eventually it will be, we just don't know when exactly. The Book of Revelation also tells us that Jesus will be returning to set up His rule on earth.
God is intelligent and that's why He gave us the gift of free will. This way He could find out who really loves Him and who really hates Him. He is not going to force you to love Him or hate Him it's up to you that's why we have the free will. The choice is yours to make.
He is all knowing, He knows who hates Him and who loves Him. Right now a person could hate Him but later on could begin to love Him and so He doesn't give up on people because He knows they can change.
I could never hate Him as you do. And please don't tell me you don't hate Him at the moment. All your previous posts up to the present gives evidence of your hatred towards Him or you don't want there to be a God.
You have been mocking Him and ridiculing Him on many of your posts. So I just don't know how you will ever change your attitude and start loving Him but of course He knows if you will or not.
I will color code this so you know what I'm referring to.
There is no evidence of a divine plan and regardless, why is all powerful god waiting so long to destroy Satan?
Right - prophecies - just like the guy that says we're gonna die in December. Or the one that said judgment day has came and went (and yet we're still here?) And we KNOW jesus can't return to rule on earth (at least no the same Jesus as before) because he's DEAD.
No intelligent god would give people free will. At least in my opinion. And while I could be wrong, the fact that I believe an intelligent god would not give his creations free will, or at least not unlimited free will, means we cannot make this assumption that god is either intelligent or should have given us free will. Additionally, I can't figure out a single reason why an all powerful god would want to create people to love him and care if they love him. That seems a very narcissistic thing to do, doesn't it? Just go out and create things to see if they love you? And then we can wonder why he created 1 species to do all this and about 10 billion more that couldn't.
Well, as Rostos would say, we cannot hate what doesn't exist. However, if god does exist and he is the god you think he is, I would walk right up to him and tell him to go fuck himself because he is a pretentious, narcissistic, douche bag.
Hey matt... I was going to continue our debate and attempting to debunk some of your claims, but I'm starting to suspect that you are not answering these questions yourself, but instead stealing from other people who have attempted to answer the same thing. I don't appreciate you plagiarizing from another in order to provide an unnecessarily dense response. Please understand that this is the only reason I will not continue to debate with you... You answers are well-structured but still logically implausible, and although I wanted to thank you for trying to valiantly to answer me, it seems all you've done is copy and paste and I don't appreciate that
Here is the website I believe you took your second answer almost word for word from
Hey matt... I was going to continue our debate and attempting to debunk some of your claims, but I'm starting to suspect that you are not answering these questions yourself, but instead stealing from other people who have attempted to answer the same thing. I don't appreciate you plagiarizing from another in order to provide an unnecessarily dense response. Please understand that this is the only reason I will not continue to debate with you... You answers are well-structured but still logically implausible, and although I wanted to thank you for trying to valiantly to answer me, it seems all you've done is copy and paste and I don't appreciate that
Here is the website I believe you took your second answer almost word for word from
This question arises from a lack of understanding of the word jelousy. Theer is a difference between Sinful jelousy and holy jelousy.
Sinful jelousy is when we see others have something and we desire it ourselves, ie, other peoples fame, car, money etc etc.
Holy jelousy is refering to our love and adoration which belongs solely to him. He is jelous in a holy jelousy when we worship other Gods in idoltry......
The hebrew translation is from zelous which is a loving jelousy, which is different to sinful jelousy....
So, Gods jelousy is NOT our jelousy when we want what others have, rather when something that belongs to him - our love, is used and commited to other Gods, because our love is his love...Ie, he doesnt want what we have....
nobody can take anything you take serious anymore since it's been proven that you change words around to fit your own agenda
Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:
This question arises from a lack of understanding of the word jelousy. Theer is a difference between Sinful jelousy and holy jelousy.
Sinful jelousy is when we see others have something and we desire it ourselves, ie, other peoples fame, car, money etc etc.
Holy jelousy is refering to our love and adoration which belongs solely to him. He is jelous in a holy jelousy when we worship other Gods in idoltry......
The hebrew translation is from zelous which is a loving jelousy, which is different to sinful jelousy....
So, Gods jelousy is NOT our jelousy when we want what others have, rather when something that belongs to him - our love, is used and commited to other Gods, because our love is his love...Ie, he doesnt want what we have....
nobody can take anything you take serious anymore since it's been proven that you change words around to fit your own agenda
In due time He will get rid of satan as prophesied in the Book of Revelation. He is letting His devine plan play out. We can already see some things that were prophesied in the Book of Revelation are slowly coming to be a reality.
They already have chips that they implant in people's pets so they can find them when they get lost. I'm sure you heard of the sign of the beast haven't you? Well eventually people are going to have these chips implanted in them to be able purchase their food and other neccessities.
Anyways the Book of Revelation has prophesies that need to come to pass to be fulfilled and eventually it will be, we just don't know when exactly. The Book of Revelation also tells us that Jesus will be returning to set up His rule on earth.
God is intelligent and that's why He gave us the gift of free will. This way He could find out who really loves Him and who really hates Him. He is not going to force you to love Him or hate Him it's up to you that's why we have the free will. The choice is yours to make.
He is all knowing, He knows who hates Him and who loves Him. Right now a person could hate Him but later on could begin to love Him and so He doesn't give up on people because He knows they can change.
I could never hate Him as you do. And please don't tell me you don't hate Him at the moment. All your previous posts up to the present gives evidence of your hatred towards Him or you don't want there to be a God.
You have been mocking Him and ridiculing Him on many of your posts. So I just don't know how you will ever change your attitude and start loving Him but of course He knows if you will or not.
please stop with the fairytales
Quote Originally Posted by SirJohnDrake:
In due time He will get rid of satan as prophesied in the Book of Revelation. He is letting His devine plan play out. We can already see some things that were prophesied in the Book of Revelation are slowly coming to be a reality.
They already have chips that they implant in people's pets so they can find them when they get lost. I'm sure you heard of the sign of the beast haven't you? Well eventually people are going to have these chips implanted in them to be able purchase their food and other neccessities.
Anyways the Book of Revelation has prophesies that need to come to pass to be fulfilled and eventually it will be, we just don't know when exactly. The Book of Revelation also tells us that Jesus will be returning to set up His rule on earth.
God is intelligent and that's why He gave us the gift of free will. This way He could find out who really loves Him and who really hates Him. He is not going to force you to love Him or hate Him it's up to you that's why we have the free will. The choice is yours to make.
He is all knowing, He knows who hates Him and who loves Him. Right now a person could hate Him but later on could begin to love Him and so He doesn't give up on people because He knows they can change.
I could never hate Him as you do. And please don't tell me you don't hate Him at the moment. All your previous posts up to the present gives evidence of your hatred towards Him or you don't want there to be a God.
You have been mocking Him and ridiculing Him on many of your posts. So I just don't know how you will ever change your attitude and start loving Him but of course He knows if you will or not.
This question arises from a lack of understanding of the word jelousy. Theer is a difference between Sinful jelousy and holy jelousy.
Sinful jelousy is when we see others have something and we desire it ourselves, ie, other peoples fame, car, money etc etc.
Holy jelousy is refering to our love and adoration which belongs solely to him. He is jelous in a holy jelousy when we worship other Gods in idoltry......
The hebrew translation is from zelous which is a loving jelousy, which is different to sinful jelousy....
So, Gods jelousy is NOT our jelousy when we want what others have, rather when something that belongs to him - our love, is used and commited to other Gods, because our love is his love...Ie, he doesnt want what we have....
All you did was add the word holy to the word jealous in order to trick people. Come on rostos... He is jealous that people give their love to other gods. He is JEALOUS that he doesn't have their love. Stop it...
Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:
This question arises from a lack of understanding of the word jelousy. Theer is a difference between Sinful jelousy and holy jelousy.
Sinful jelousy is when we see others have something and we desire it ourselves, ie, other peoples fame, car, money etc etc.
Holy jelousy is refering to our love and adoration which belongs solely to him. He is jelous in a holy jelousy when we worship other Gods in idoltry......
The hebrew translation is from zelous which is a loving jelousy, which is different to sinful jelousy....
So, Gods jelousy is NOT our jelousy when we want what others have, rather when something that belongs to him - our love, is used and commited to other Gods, because our love is his love...Ie, he doesnt want what we have....
All you did was add the word holy to the word jealous in order to trick people. Come on rostos... He is jealous that people give their love to other gods. He is JEALOUS that he doesn't have their love. Stop it...
All you did was add the word holy to the word jealous in order to trick people. Come on rostos... He is jealous that people give their love to other gods. He is JEALOUS that he doesn't have their love. Stop it...
I recommend people go and do a bit of research on the word zelous to which the word "jelous " was translated from.
God owns our love and his jelousy arises when we devote that love to other Gods (idoltry)
What, do you guys think God is jelous of Justine Bieber because he has good looking girlfriends, money and fame, and God wants that himself?
Quote Originally Posted by Mikniks:
All you did was add the word holy to the word jealous in order to trick people. Come on rostos... He is jealous that people give their love to other gods. He is JEALOUS that he doesn't have their love. Stop it...
I recommend people go and do a bit of research on the word zelous to which the word "jelous " was translated from.
God owns our love and his jelousy arises when we devote that love to other Gods (idoltry)
What, do you guys think God is jelous of Justine Bieber because he has good looking girlfriends, money and fame, and God wants that himself?
Kobe Bryant was married to his wife Vanessa and they have a couple of kids.
Kobes love BELONGS to his wife and kids.
Is his wife Vanessa jelous because Kobe loves there 2 kids, ie, some of Kobes love goes to there kids as opposed to 100% of his love going to Vanessa? Of course not.
Now, we see that Kobe cheated on his wife. This is a "holy jelousy". Is it possible to say Vanessa is WRONG she shouldnt be jelous of Kobe seeing other girls behind her back?
Of course not, the fact is, Kobes love belongs to her and her kids, when Kobe commits idoltry, it becomes a holy jelousy.
Look at yourselves, say you are married. Your wifes love belong to you. If she goes around screwing other guys, why do you become angry? The main reason is because she isnt faithful, but this lack of faithfulness triggers a jelousy in you known as the "holy jelousy"......
What you guys are trying to say is this,
Someone that is jelous of the ex chairman of Goldman Sachs that got paid out $40 million because they want that $40 mill themselves WHEN IT IS NOT ENTITILED TO THEM is the same as when a husband CHEATS on his wife triggers the SAME jelousy, meaning both the person that wants the $40 mill is the same as the woman who sees the husband cheat on her...Both are wrong......We know well and truely in the 1st case it is wrong, but certainly not the 2nd...
Think of it like this.....
Sinful jelousy is wrong, we know that.
Kobe Bryant was married to his wife Vanessa and they have a couple of kids.
Kobes love BELONGS to his wife and kids.
Is his wife Vanessa jelous because Kobe loves there 2 kids, ie, some of Kobes love goes to there kids as opposed to 100% of his love going to Vanessa? Of course not.
Now, we see that Kobe cheated on his wife. This is a "holy jelousy". Is it possible to say Vanessa is WRONG she shouldnt be jelous of Kobe seeing other girls behind her back?
Of course not, the fact is, Kobes love belongs to her and her kids, when Kobe commits idoltry, it becomes a holy jelousy.
Look at yourselves, say you are married. Your wifes love belong to you. If she goes around screwing other guys, why do you become angry? The main reason is because she isnt faithful, but this lack of faithfulness triggers a jelousy in you known as the "holy jelousy"......
What you guys are trying to say is this,
Someone that is jelous of the ex chairman of Goldman Sachs that got paid out $40 million because they want that $40 mill themselves WHEN IT IS NOT ENTITILED TO THEM is the same as when a husband CHEATS on his wife triggers the SAME jelousy, meaning both the person that wants the $40 mill is the same as the woman who sees the husband cheat on her...Both are wrong......We know well and truely in the 1st case it is wrong, but certainly not the 2nd...
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