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If Christ died on the cross for all of humanity

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Posted: #1776
Quote Originally Posted by sparty444:

The belief in God and Santa Claus are very similar

As children we believe that Santa exists... why?  Because we are taught that by our respective parents. As we grow older we begin to use our minds and ask questions regarding the validity on the story. Eventually we hit the point where we do not believe anymore.

yeah very similar indeed, when children grow, they ALL find the truth and stop believing in Santa. When Children grow into adults etc, the opposite occurs, alot start believing and finding God.......Definitly alot of similarities there arent there?  Great logic Sparty.....

Religion for some reason is differet in the sense where people are discouraged to question and are taught to take everything on faith no matter the facts presented.

Who is discouraging who? Have i ever been discouraged? No, i dont know anyone who has been discouraged. Your great logic continues.........

As adults we don't need Santa in our lives... we just need the understand the true spirit of christmas. Its the thing that matters.

Of course we dont need Santa, because it is testable and proven he doesnt exist.

Religion is the same way... you don't have to believe in the divine to be a good person.... you just have to understand the concept of being the best person you can be for the benfit of all

yes, i agree to a certain extent, but what is good? Without God, good and bad become relative instruments. It simply becomes ones opinion over the other, if i think child rape is good and you think it is bad, then it is no different to saying Lebron is better than Kobe, just one persons opinion over the other.....If we dont know what a straight line is, how do we know what a crooked line looks like?

 

 
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Posted: #1777
Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

it looks like we have to go down a few levels of intellect to communicate something simple accross.

If Santa is real,

There would be presents given to kids that cannot be accounted for by anyone (other than Santa).

One would see Santa or his elves delivering presents down a chimnie on xmas day.

One would see Santa flying around on his reindeers from chimnie to chimnie.

Please complete the sentence

if God exists?

I am waiting to hear, honestly i am...

 


Maybe Santa and the whole operation is invisible.  Maybe the "presents" he gives are not physical items, but emotional.  Maybe he puts thoughts in our heads to make us happy if even for an instant!!


Rostos missing the point and taking it too literally.

The point is any random story can be made up and told to everyone to be true, despite a lack of evidence...
 
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Posted: #1778
Maybe this is all just a computer program!!!  Prove that it isn't Rostos!!

Is that testable?!?
 
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Posted: #1779
Quote Originally Posted by sparty444:

Religion is like politics... you have to see out of both eyes in order to understand the purpose.

I understand people who believe in their respective faiths and have respect for those beliefs. But often times the religious are the biggest sinners of all... as they tend to be the biggest hipocrites.

Whether a god exists or not is second to the fact that we as people need to look out for each other and be the best people we can be. If everyone lived by the 10 commandments or even just the golden rule you would see a much nicer world.  Unfortunately many religious and non religious are blinded by their own vanity to the point where they forget the true meanings and the bigger purpose.

I agree with this, people in church are also sinners. It seems as though the people from the outside of religion looking in, have a false illusion that church goers are supposed to be perfect or sin free. The reality is they are human beings and subject to the same temptations as everyone else. They also preach but they also become hypocrites. But in saying that, i dont know any church goer who has said that they are perfect, or dont sin or are better than anyone else.

Christmas and Santa Claus are under a similar logic strand.  You don't have to believe in Santa in order to appreciate and understand the meaning of Christmas.

Santa is designed for little kids. It has NOTHING to do with anything. It baffles me why you bring this up. It is irrelevant.

Tolerance is a common theme to most religions... yet you typically see little of it practiced. Its understandable to debate ones existence... but its folly to think that most of the beliefs of these religions are false.  The foundations of wisdom and understanding are there.... its just we as people forget or just plain ignore it.

I think you are confusing arguments for God with religions and there purposes......You are bluring the arguments. I am not sure what you are trying to say here...

 

 
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Posted: #1780
Quote Originally Posted by Mikniks:


Maybe Santa and the whole operation is invisible.  Maybe the "presents" he gives are not physical items, but emotional.  Maybe he puts thoughts in our heads to make us happy if even for an instant!!
 
Even if Santa is invisible, lets assume Santa is invisible, presents still have to be accounted for? Has any present ever NOT been accounted for?  You have tried to equivocate the invisible qualities of God to that of Santa, but you have failed because one of Santas main form of evidence that if he exists is delivering presents WHICH CANNOT BE ACCOUNTED FOR BY ANYONE ELSE OTHER THAN SANTA... You tried to create a trap, but you fell into it your trap.....Not very smart.


Rostos missing the point and taking it too literally.

The point is any random story can be made up and told to everyone to be true, despite a lack of evidence...
 
You are missing the point.....the stories , myths, Santa, tooth fairy ALL HAVE testabilities about them.....Are you really that stupid?
 

 

 
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Posted: #1781

Just asnwer this...

Has a present EVER NOT BEEN ACCOUNTED FOR? Just answer that.......Has a presented not ever been accounted for?

 

 
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Posted: #1782

Rostos, 

Santa Claus was a real person... the legend sprang from the doings of a real person.  Some would say...including myself that Christ  and his legend were formed on the exact same premise.

If you cannot see the similarities than so be it... am done discussing it period

 
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Posted: #1783
He is slow Sparty...
 
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Posted: #1784
Rostos just can't grasp the point...  Maybe he is just bitter that he was lied to as a child about all these fairy tales so he grasps onto a fairy tale about an invisible magical man...  
 
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Posted: #1785
You can't test a story of an invisble magical man, therefore it is true. 
 
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Posted: #1786
Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

Please complete the sentence

if God exists?

I am waiting to hear, honestly i am...

 


I'm waiting too, but all you do is call us stupid and then proceed to spell word after word after word incorrectly and completely miss the point of an analogy. You haven't provided a single valid reason for your belief system. I'd tell you it's like you're beating a dead horse, but then you'd probably ask me where the horse is and why it's been killed.


Also, SirJohnDrake provides maybe the most useless commentary I've ever taken part in. He's the guy who'd bring a tuna casserole to a sword fight and wonder why nobody takes him seriously

 
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Posted: #1787
Quote Originally Posted by sparty444:

the religious are the biggest sinners of all... as they tend to be the biggest hipocrites.

Your statement above is somewhat misleading or not quite clear, kinda vague, I mean what do you really mean by "biggest sinners" and "biggest hypocrites"?

Do you mean to say that religious people at churches are attended by mostly murderers or rapists or thieves? I know you will acknowledge that everyone in the world is a sinner but "biggest sinners" I just don't quite know what you really mean by that but anyway let me just give you some kind of response here.

Have you ever heard the excuse, I can’t go to Church there are too many hypocrites there?

Most often and unfortunately the words "sinner" and "hypocrite" are being confused in their usage by many.

 The confusion is one found between what one is and what one does. Sinner is the generic term of what "one is." Scripture says all people are found in this category, both in and outside the Church. Everyone falls short of the perfection of God which makes them a sinner. Being a Hypocrite is specifically what one does. Since hypocrisy is a sin, we can say, All hypocrites are sinners. But not all sinners are hypocrites.

Those who dislike the church and its explanation of mans predicament bring this confusion by the statement "The church is full of sinners so all sinners are hypocrites. Therefore the church is full of hypocrites."

But there is a obvious problem with this parallel. Let me give an illustration which makes this more clear. The church is full of sinners, murderers are sinners therefore the church is full of murderers. This would be very unfair and clearly inaccurate to say. In the same way jail has murderers therefore all who are in jail are murderers.

What happens when unsaved people see those who attend church sinning? They think to themselves, "That person is supposed to be a Christian, Christians are not supposed to sin, since that person is sinning, he/she is a hypocrite."

They assume that a Christian is one who claims that he does not sin. In reality its just the opposite. For someone to be a Christian, they must first admit to be a sinner. Being a sinner is a pre-requisite for being a Christian.

One becomes acutely aware of their condition not only at salvation but through their life. The Christian church is exclusively the only group of people that requires a public acknowledgement of sin. They are admitting they have a condition seeking a remedy.

Actually the Church has fewer hypocrites than any other association because the definition of the Church is a hospital for sinners, all kinds. If the Church ever claimed to be an association of perfect people then it certainly would be hypocritical.

But the Church has never claimed this. To answer the charge that the Church is full of sinners is an accurate statement, one we accept. To say it is full of hypocrites or the biggest hypocrites as you put it, it is not!

 
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Posted: #1788
Just for you Rostos.

If God exists...

We would have pictures of him.
We would have people who have drawn him.
We would have video recordings of things appearing out of nowhere (David Blaine doesn't count...or maybe he's god?)
We would have...wait for it...MIRACLES.

But since we have none of those, we can reasonably conclude that god does not exist until sufficient evidence arises to the contrary.

I can't believe your capacity for intelligence is that low that you are actually asking if a gift hasn't been accounted for...do you honestly think that's relevant?

I will reiterate a question above.

WE ARE ALL IN THE MATRIX. I KNOW IT!

NOW PROVE ME WRONG.
 
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Posted: #1789
Quote Originally Posted by KittyKatz286:

Just for you Rostos.


NOW PROVE ME WRONG.

What evidence do you have that proves God doesn't exist?

 
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Posted: #1790
Quote Originally Posted by SirJohnDrake:

What evidence do you have that proves God doesn't exist?




We all live in the Matrix and you can't prove me wrong so I'm right!!!
 
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Posted: #1791
Quote Originally Posted by sparty444:

Rostos, 

Santa Claus was a real person... the legend sprang from the doings of a real person.  Some would say...including myself that Christ  and his legend were formed on the exact same premise.

Yes, St Nicholas......However, he lived and passed.....Is this st Nicholas actually delivering presents HIMSELF , ie his spirit? Has a present ever not been accounted for? why wont you answer this question?

If you cannot see the similarities than so be it... am done discussing it period

I find it very hypocritical of you to say that i cant see the similarities when you have answered the KEY question which i have posted on several questions...Dodging a question is NOT a claim to winning an argument.

 
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Posted: #1792

Quote Originally Posted by Mikniks:

Rostos just can't grasp the point...  Maybe he is just bitter that he was lied to as a child about all these fairy tales so he grasps onto a fairy tale about an invisible magical man...  

Why wont you answer my question? why?

 
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Posted: #1793

Isnt it amazing, that i have posted a question that clearly derails any attempt to compare God with santa and it just keeps on getting dodged time and time again...

Oh dear....

Once and for all....

Has a present EVER NOT BEEN ACCOUNTED FOR?

Just answer it, just answer it, just answer it....

 
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Posted: #1794
Quote Originally Posted by KittyKatz286:

Just for you Rostos.

If God exists...

We would have pictures of him. We do.
We would have people who have drawn him. We do
We would have video recordings of things appearing out of nowhere (David Blaine doesn't count...or maybe he's god?) Isnt the universe an example of this? Why do they have to be recorded?
We would have...wait for it...MIRACLES. Who says they dont happen? Survuvors of tsunamis, earthquakes, cancer survivors. Arent they miracles?

But since we have none of those, we can reasonably conclude that god does not exist until sufficient evidence arises to the contrary.
I answered above. YOU CHOSE NOT BELIEVE IT, THAT IS YOUR PROBLEM.
I can't believe your capacity for intelligence is that low that you are actually asking if a gift hasn't been accounted for...do you honestly think that's relevant?

I will reiterate a question above.

WE ARE ALL IN THE MATRIX. I KNOW IT!
 
Matrix? What are you talking about? The movie?

NOW PROVE ME WRONG.
 
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Posted: #1795
Quote Originally Posted by SirJohnDrake:

Your statement above is somewhat misleading or not quite clear, kinda vague, I mean what do you really mean by "biggest sinners" and "biggest hypocrites"?

Do you mean to say that religious people at churches are attended by mostly murderers or rapists or thieves? I know you will acknowledge that everyone in the world is a sinner but "biggest sinners" I just don't quite know what you really mean by that but anyway let me just give you some kind of response here.

Have you ever heard the excuse, I can’t go to Church there are too many hypocrites there?

Most often and unfortunately the words "sinner" and "hypocrite" are being confused in their usage by many.

 The confusion is one found between what one is and what one does. Sinner is the generic term of what "one is." Scripture says all people are found in this category, both in and outside the Church. Everyone falls short of the perfection of God which makes them a sinner. Being a Hypocrite is specifically what one does. Since hypocrisy is a sin, we can say, All hypocrites are sinners. But not all sinners are hypocrites.

Those who dislike the church and its explanation of mans predicament bring this confusion by the statement "The church is full of sinners so all sinners are hypocrites. Therefore the church is full of hypocrites."

But there is a obvious problem with this parallel. Let me give an illustration which makes this more clear. The church is full of sinners, murderers are sinners therefore the church is full of murderers. This would be very unfair and clearly inaccurate to say. In the same way jail has murderers therefore all who are in jail are murderers.

What happens when unsaved people see those who attend church sinning? They think to themselves, "That person is supposed to be a Christian, Christians are not supposed to sin, since that person is sinning, he/she is a hypocrite."

They assume that a Christian is one who claims that he does not sin. In reality its just the opposite. For someone to be a Christian, they must first admit to be a sinner. Being a sinner is a pre-requisite for being a Christian.

One becomes acutely aware of their condition not only at salvation but through their life. The Christian church is exclusively the only group of people that requires a public acknowledgement of sin. They are admitting they have a condition seeking a remedy.

Actually the Church has fewer hypocrites than any other association because the definition of the Church is a hospital for sinners, all kinds. If the Church ever claimed to be an association of perfect people then it certainly would be hypocritical.

But the Church has never claimed this. To answer the charge that the Church is full of sinners is an accurate statement, one we accept. To say it is full of hypocrites or the biggest hypocrites as you put it, it is not!

Did he really say that religious people are the biggest sinners?

Last time i checked, Stalin and Pot (who were both atheists and therefore non religious people) are the biggest mass murders in human history, nothing even compares.......

 
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Posted: #1796
Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

Isnt it amazing, that i have posted a question that clearly derails any attempt to compare God with santa and it just keeps on getting dodged time and time again...

Oh dear....

Once and for all....

Has a present EVER NOT BEEN ACCOUNTED FOR?

Just answer it, just answer it, just answer it....



Yes I bet there has been!!!  This has nothing to do with the point being made!!!!  Stop thinking that refuting Santa Claus will somehow prove the existence of god!!

Now please provide at least a shred of evidence proving the existence of god...  Don't worry, I'll wait...


I think we live in the Matrix.  Prove me wrong...  You can't so I guess it's true...


See the point yet?!?
 
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Posted: #1797
[Quote: Originally Posted by sparty444]

 If everyone lived by the 10 commandments or even just the golden rule you would see a much nicer world. 

 

I wholeheartedly agree but realisticly that we never happen where everyone would live by the commandments.

Mankind is plague by sin, man's very nature is sinful, we are all born into sin. It is the curse that fell upon us ever since Adam disobeyed God and sinned.

I know non-religious people will scoff at that notion but it's the truth and nothing but the truth so help me God.

This earth is not where God's perfection is, His perfection is where He lives which is His Kingdom of Heaven where God's saved people will be going someday to live with Him...oh yes indeed!...paradise is on the horizon for those who seek it!

 
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Posted: #1798

Quote Originally Posted by Mikniks:



Yes I bet there has been!!!  This has nothing to do with the point being made!!!!  Stop thinking that refuting Santa Claus will somehow prove the existence of god!!

So a present has been given to a child before that has never been accounted for?  So, that present was not bought by a parent, friend, family , etc etc........That gift doesnt have a purchase trail or donation trail from a charity????? 

Do you realise what you have just said? You have just admitted Santa exists ...If a present has never been accounted for, that proves Santa exists doesnt it? otherwise how did it get there?



Now please provide at least a shred of evidence proving the existence of god...  Don't worry, I'll wait...

The universe....I have posited the KCA to you plenty of occasions, but you and your friends keep on dodging it...The historicity of Jesus Christ...The existence of objective morals, Fine tuning argument.....

I think we live in the Matrix.  Prove me wrong...  You can't so I guess it's true...

Whats this matrix you keep talking about....BTW, i never watched that movie....


See the point yet?!?

 
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Posted: #1799
Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

Did he really say that religious people are the biggest sinners?

Last time i checked, Stalin and Pot (who were both atheists and therefore non religious people) are the biggest mass murders in human history, nothing even compares.......

I guess maybe that is what he meant, biggest sinners as being like mass murderers. I didn't know exactly what he meant as you can see when you read my reply to him.

But yeah if that is what he meant...oh boy is he way off the mark!

 
 
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Posted: #1800
Rostos, I say this with every fiber of my being...

You are the second DUMBEST person I have ever had the displeasure of talking to, and only because drake is number 1...

I said Santa exists?  No I did not.  Not only did I not say that, but it is COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT...  The fact that you also think that that one little thing would PROVE Santa to be real shows what it takes for you to believe something...


You think the universe proves that there is a god?  The only thing the universe proves is that there is a universe...


Your stance is:  "You can't prove me wrong, so I must be right!"

OK well, I believe we all live in a computer program.  You can't prove me wrong, so I must be right...  Or is that testable Rostos?
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