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If Christ died on the cross for all of humanity

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SurfApe

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Joined: Sep, 2010

Posts: 877

Posted: Dec. 24, 2011 - 5:35 PM ET #3076

Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

And things popping into existence from nothing does?

Your (intentional?) misunderstanding of cosmology is only surpassed by your credulity. In your next post you actually suggest that the shroud of turin is not a forgery?! C'mon, get outta here! As for your ad nauseum repetition of something arising from nothing, though other non theists have done a credible job wrangling with your semantics, perhaps a different tack is in order. Simply because we do not precisely understand the conditions at the rise of our universe does not in any way support the existence of a god (or gods for pc) It still boils down to as you say, "something arising from nothing" at its most irreducable state. Your argument that a god not beholden to the laws of physics is much less plausible to the rational mind than the laws of physics breaking down in a singularity. For all your claims of humbleness, you theists assert and assume so much, while we atheists know that we have come so far, yet have still much further to go.

offensivestr

Prospect

Joined: Nov, 2008

Posts: 285

Posted: Dec. 24, 2011 - 5:38 PM ET #3077

There is more validity that has been confirmed in the Bible than most of the stuff we never question in history books. Proof is all around.

And surfape dude,

Archeology proves things. That's what it does. When there are stories believed to be false then time after time people, places, things, are confirmed it helps with the validity of something. Also, when you have the number of eyewitnesses that Jesus had, that's how things get passed down. Probably why billions celebrate Christ.

To answer your idiotic answer, billions don't worship aliens, Bigfoot and whatever other stupid ass slap dick stuff you said. Billions worship Christ.

Your dumb f in scientists can't prove anything. The best theory you have is that rocks collided and created life and that something was created from nothing. That is some stupid Harry Potter BS.

So before y'all claim how smart you are, bring something to the table that isn't stupid. And the fact you put all your faith in scientists? Funny stuff

Now get back to collecting shells.

SurfApe

Rookie

Joined: Sep, 2010

Posts: 877

Posted: Dec. 24, 2011 - 5:40 PM ET #3078

Quote Originally Posted by KittyKatz286:

Congratulations surfape. I think this is the first time in 3000+ posts posts I can declare a victor. A complete lack of response and resort solely to personal attacks is the definition of concession of defeat. It's like when you're having an argument in person and your opponent starts cursing; you know you've won. Well done.

While i thank you for your laurels, i will kindly ask you not to denigrate gratuitous cursing, as i enjoy it immensely. And yes, that is truly the hallmark of a vanquished ( or jealous) mind, to ostensibly (i really don't know what the fuck this guy is blathering about) deride my appearance to distract from utter intellectual rout. FTW, yep its me, i'm on my sailboat in the bahamas, and the conch were delicious.

offensivestr

Prospect

Joined: Nov, 2008

Posts: 285

Posted: Dec. 24, 2011 - 5:41 PM ET #3079

The best thing surf ape has said

"Simply because we do not precisely understand the conditions at the rise of our universe "

KittyKatz286

Veteran

Joined: Feb, 2009

Posts: 1988

Posted: Dec. 24, 2011 - 5:42 PM ET #3080

Look at offensive LOL. After you just refuted his arguments, he's making the SAME ARGUMENTS. Does he think they're any less invalid the second time?

SYSTEM

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Joined: Dec, 2004

Posts: 1702

Posted: Dec. 24, 2011 - 5:42 PM ET #3081

Quote Originally Posted by offensivestr:

There is more validity that has been confirmed in the Bible than most of the stuff we never question in history books. Proof is all around.

And surfape dude,

To answer your idiotic answer, billions don't worship aliens, Bigfoot and whatever other stupid ass slap dick stuff you said. Billions worship Christ.

Your dumb f in scientists can't prove anything. The best theory you have is that rocks collided and created life and that something was created from nothing. That is some stupid Harry Potter BS.

So before y'all claim how smart you are, bring something to the table that isn't stupid. And the fact you put all your faith in scientists? Funny stuff

Now get back to collecting shells.

why are you getting mad?

making it billions instead of thousands doesn't make it more true

offensivestr

Prospect

Joined: Nov, 2008

Posts: 285

Posted: Dec. 24, 2011 - 5:45 PM ET #3082

So surf ape, in your infinite wisdom, you can admit since you just said

Simply because we do not precisely understand the conditions at the rise of our universe "

Then you can admit, since you don't know, that a supreme power that operates above our knowledge is possible?

offensivestr

Prospect

Joined: Nov, 2008

Posts: 285

Posted: Dec. 24, 2011 - 5:46 PM ET #3083

Learn to read system,

Go outside and play.

Rostos

Hall of Fame

Joined: Feb, 2009

Posts: 27785

Posted: Dec. 24, 2011 - 5:47 PM ET #3084

Quote Originally Posted by jagerfury:

Your god did, and you are perfectly happy with that. You only need a heavily subjective, and re-written book of fables to for your proof. Don't be upset with other who find your baseline of proof, a bible, laughable. If you were intelligent, which you are not, you would realize rational people have every right to be skeptical of your claims, and the basis in which they are made.

The problem I have with the religious right is not leaving these wish fantasy's to yourselves. There are real problems in the world which real solutions are needed. Which take action and sacrifice. Not prayer, and belief. Rostos, and his ilk, are a roadblock to progress. Period.

You would get such a big F if you ever attempted a Philosophy exam. A big fat F....

You dont answer philosophical questions with emotional diorreah...

KittyKatz286

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Joined: Feb, 2009

Posts: 1988

Posted: Dec. 24, 2011 - 5:47 PM ET #3085

Quote Originally Posted by offensivestr:

So surf ape, in your infinite wisdom, you can admit since you just said

Simply because we do not precisely understand the conditions at the rise of our universe "

Then you can admit, since you don't know, that a supreme power that operates above our knowledge is possible?

There is no doubt that surfape will admit this as a possibility. No one ever said it wasn't. It is just the most unlikeliest of scenarios and basically the last resort, if you will. There are so many other rational possibilities that need to be considered before resorting to a supreme being that transcends reality and the laws of physics. And like I've said repeatedly, I have no problem with believers, I have a problem with believers who think they KNOW and with faulty logic.

SurfApe

Rookie

Joined: Sep, 2010

Posts: 877

Posted: Dec. 24, 2011 - 5:51 PM ET #3086

Quote Originally Posted by offensivestr:

There is more validity that has been confirmed in the Bible than most of the stuff we never question in history books. Proof is all around.

And surfape dude,

Cite sources. Peer vetted journals only.

Again, RE your dubious archaeological claims, cite peer vetted sources. As has been previously demonstrated, the last portion of this drivel is a logical fallacy. Simply because a large number of people believe something, it does not make said something true. 99 percent of humanity have even the most rudimentary understanding of relativity or quantum mechanics. That fact effects the validity of those two theories exactly nil.

To answer your idiotic answer, billions don't worship aliens, Bigfoot and whatever other stupid ass slap dick stuff you said. Billions worship Christ.

Again, elementary logical fallacy, coupled with the most unlettered sentence structure imaginable.

Your dumb f in scientists can't prove anything. The best theory you have is that rocks collided and created life and that something was created from nothing. That is some stupid Harry Potter BS.

I must have missed your "rocks colliding to make shit" theory. Did your institute of higher learning teach that before or after moonshining 101? Your infatuation with harry potter should discomfit jk rowling.

So before y'all claim how smart you are, bring something to the table that isn't stupid. And the fact you put all your faith in scientists? Funny stuff

Now get back to collecting shells.

Scientists created the computer that allows you to deposit your intellectual droppings in a public forum. It created the light which allows you to see your keypad, as well as the paper towels which enable you to remove the drool from it.

Quote Originally Posted by offensivestr:

There is more validity that has been confirmed in the Bible than most of the stuff we never question in history books. Proof is all around.

And surfape dude,

Cite sources. Peer vetted journals only.

To answer your idiotic answer, billions don't worship aliens, Bigfoot and whatever other stupid ass slap dick stuff you said. Billions worship Christ.

Again, elementary logical fallacy, coupled with the most unlettered sentence structure imaginable.

Your dumb f in scientists can't prove anything. The best theory you have is that rocks collided and created life and that something was created from nothing. That is some stupid Harry Potter BS.

So before y'all claim how smart you are, bring something to the table that isn't stupid. And the fact you put all your faith in scientists? Funny stuff

Now get back to collecting shells.

offensivestr

Prospect

Joined: Nov, 2008

Posts: 285

Posted: Dec. 24, 2011 - 5:56 PM ET #3087

See other posts for Archeological findings. Stop wasting time and pay attention

lbcake

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Joined: May, 2005

Posts: 27074

Posted: Dec. 24, 2011 - 5:57 PM ET #3088

I'm open to all possibilities. But when the theists start using words like, 'I know' and 'faith', you lose all credibility.

Rostos

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Joined: Feb, 2009

Posts: 27785

Posted: Dec. 24, 2011 - 5:57 PM ET #3089

Quote Originally Posted by jagerfury:

What's so beautiful about it? He had nothing to lose! A real sacrifice is doing something because it is right, not because you will be rewarded. Jesus is nothing but the spoiled single child who wants all the attention. The poor person in Syria fighting for justice in the teeth of brutality, and torture is much more "christian" than the super zombie incapable of being destroyed who quits this earth when the going got tough. Shit, my laborers on the job site have more pluck than that primadonna.

Hey, i have a gambling debt and it needs to be paid off. I dont have anyone money to pay it off, can you pay it off for me? I dont know you and you dont know me, but still, can you pay it off?

Actually, i just got off the phone with the bookie, he said, he will forgive my debt, if you, yes you go to his house, at his house, he will lash you 100 times on your back, then after the lashing, he and his heavies will drag you by the hair ont he ground for a few km's, then he has a very very big and heavy wooden cross that weighs 7-8 times than you do, you will need to carry that cross for a a few km's, everytime you fall, one of his heavies will whip you...

When you get to the end, they will drive 50 cm nails into ankles and hands.......and eventually die.

If you do this, they will forgive my debt, can you do this for me? Actually, the bookmaker said that they will forgive every single persons debt.....

They want you because you have never gambled in your life or done anything wrong...

Cmon, can you do this, after all, according to you, "it is no biggy"

I await your response....

SirJohnDrake

All-Star

Joined: Jan, 2006

Posts: 14765

Posted: Dec. 24, 2011 - 5:58 PM ET #3090

Quote Originally Posted by Mikniks:

I'm mocking it because it's an absolute joke. A guy could live his whole life without sinning and not believe in god and be sent to hell. How fuckin egotistical is your god. What a dick... But if a mass murderer believes in god and says he's sorry he gets into heaven. How can you not see this bullshit? Your god is a dick...

It's no joke. I already told you there is nobody who never sins...what kind of brains do you have? Everybody has sinned one time or another. I'm sure the whole majority of us at one time or another has told a lie or stole something...those are sins...you get it?

Furthermore the greatest sin is not believing in Him and rejecting His only begotten Son Jesus Christ our Lord Savior.

If a mass killer who sincerely believes in God and ask for forgiveness and repents then sins no more, then yes he will be saved. God will know if this person is sincere or not so you can't deceive Him, whereas a person who rejects Him but has lived a decent life but mind you is still a sinner, that person will go to hell....understand?

It has nothing to do with Him being egotistical. He created everything and so He owns everyone's soul. Answer me did you create yourself?...the answer is no, did your parents create themselves?...the answer is no. Get it through that thick skull of yours and submit to whom created you.

If you don't want to believe in Him, how could He possibly allow you to join Him at His residence in heaven?

Keep mocking, keep ridiculing, let's see how brave you are when someday you know the time is coming, see if you don't finally breakdown and call Him for forgiveness and mercy. A whole lot of people like yourself will finally come to their senses, although I don't truly know if it will be too late for you or not. God will be the judge.

offensivestr

Prospect

Joined: Nov, 2008

Posts: 285

Posted: Dec. 24, 2011 - 5:58 PM ET #3091

And Harry potter was referenced from your fellow atheists, once again, pay attention to past posts

SurfApe

Rookie

Joined: Sep, 2010

Posts: 877

Posted: Dec. 24, 2011 - 5:59 PM ET #3092

Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

You would get such a big F if you ever attempted a Philosophy exam. A big fat F....

You dont answer philosophical questions with emotional diorreah...

A shame that you focused on philosophy whilst more learned individulas studied that as a hobby and learned the intricasies of the natural world which you remain so blithely ignorant of. If this discussion is to be reduced to imaginary grades, i give you an F in physics, not the least of which for completely misunderstanding entropy and the second law, an F in cosmology for bastardising sir roger penrose and completely missing the point of hawking and other theoretitacl physiscists, and for selectively quoting einstein RE god, an F in biology, arcaeology, chemistry, and history, and i'm sure quite a few other failures. I'll take your f in pholosophy, though i would undoudbtedly surpass you there as well.

lbcake

Hall of Fame

Joined: May, 2005

Posts: 27074

Posted: Dec. 24, 2011 - 5:59 PM ET #3093

Quote Originally Posted by lbcake:

I'm open to all possibilities. But when the theists start using words like, 'I know' and 'faith', they lose all credibility.

SYSTEM

Veteran

Joined: Dec, 2004

Posts: 1702

Posted: Dec. 24, 2011 - 6:00 PM ET #3094

Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

Hey, i have a gambling debt and it needs to be paid off. I dont have anyone money to pay it off, can you pay it off for me? I dont know you and you dont know me, but still, can you pay it off?

When you get to the end, they will drive 50 cm nails into ankles and hands.......and eventually die.

If you do this, they will forgive my debt, can you do this for me? Actually, the bookmaker said that they will forgive every single persons debt.....

They want you because you have never gambled in your life or done anything wrong...

Cmon, can you do this, after all, according to you, "it is no biggy"

I await your response....

it was a nice story, that's about it

Rostos

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Joined: Feb, 2009

Posts: 27785

Posted: Dec. 24, 2011 - 6:00 PM ET #3095

Quote Originally Posted by Sugarbear19:

Begging the question (or petitio principii, "assuming the initial point") is a type of logical fallacy in which the proposition to be proven is assumed implicitly or explicitly in the premise.

The first known definition in the West is by the Greek philosopher Aristotle around 350 BC, in his book Prior Analytics, where he classified it as a material fallacy. Begging the question is related to the circular argument, circulus in probando (Latin, "circle in proving") or circular reasoning, though these are considered absolutely different by Aristotle.^[1]

Another F if you attempted to answer this question in a philosophy exam.

funny how you quote aristotle, he is the main proponant of "from nothing, comes nothing"....

You simple failure to answer a basic dihotomy indicates your strike out.

As i expected....

SYSTEM

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Joined: Dec, 2004

Posts: 1702

Posted: Dec. 24, 2011 - 6:02 PM ET #3096

Quote Originally Posted by SirJohnDrake:

Furthermore the greatest sin is not believing in Him and rejecting His only begotten Son Jesus Christ our Lord Savior.

If you don't want to believe in Him, how could He possibly allow you to join Him at His residence in heaven?

you're a joke

sins

Rostos

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Joined: Feb, 2009

Posts: 27785

Posted: Dec. 24, 2011 - 6:05 PM ET #3097

Quote Originally Posted by SYSTEM:

it was a nice story, that's about it

You know what system, from now on, i am going to sign up for every course in university, courses in physics, biology, engineering, medicine, because i am going to adopt you methodology of answering question in exams, with sinple, "what a load of crap", "thats not true", "thats rubbish"....

I am not going to answer the questions at all, not going to give the reasons why the statements int e exam are false, just going to use your terminology, i am sure i will get my PHD's in those subjects with your logic....