If Christ died on the cross for all of humanity

I still find it absolutely amazing that atheists claim that science is their backbone to knowldge and logic and disproving God, when in fact science points very very strongly to a supernatural creator of the universe , a timeless, spaceless and immaterial cause of the universe.

Atheists claim science this, science that, have absolutely no idea on what the latest scientific studies imply. Either get with the latest scientific studies and there implications or keep your mouth quiet.

Oh, and people that say Christians are weak minded for no reason and no evidence, are really the weak minded themselves.

Dont you know the golden rule, when people go around calling others names with no evidence to back it up, they are really refering to themselves.....

Quote Originally Posted by Spitfire15:

Stop this.

Science is a guess, everything is thrown out every 100 years and we just found out that particles can go faster than the speed of light, so there you go.

Religion is a guess, even the most faithful do not know, they believe.

Stop wasting your time and both should agree to GET ON WITH LIVING and stop trying to tell everyone you know what happens when you die, you don't, stop being so fucking scared of it.  When your time is up you'll find out.

You're all fucking crazy.

Religion is not guess work my friend but faith based.

But lets assume it is guess work for a second, like gambling, what is the rational of non believers gambling on their eternal destination?

Its like there are 2 bookmakers.....

bookmaker (a) is the traditional bookmker, you win, he pays you, you lose, you done your cash.

bookmaker (b) is different, you win, he pays you, you lose, he gives you his money back.

Logically, which bookmaker would you choose? after you have answered this, guess which the bookmaker the atheists are choosing and ask your self if they are rational.

Read about the Borde-Guth-Vilenkin model......READ and have a good think about the implications of their findings......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aemfYmusSY&feature=youtu.be

Watch and learn..

No fail.......

The atheists think that Pascals wager is false because there is actually a sunk cost, ie, time spent at church, time spent praying, donations to the church, modifying behaviour to fit within beliefs, like, not stealing, lying, etc etc.

Suppose for a second there is no God, has Josh Hamilton foregone sunks costs? I name him because he is well known.

Secondly, name me one person who has gone from no faith to faith and there life is worse off when compared to before?

The debunking of Pascals wager is fallacious, especially when we have real life examples of proving the opposite.

Josh Hamilton stated that he was on the path of destruction, drugs addiction, alcohol addiction, depression, suicidal etc.

He found God, dropped his drug and alcohol addiction, got out of depression.

Got his baseball career, earning millions, providing for his family and friends, makes sick kids and under privellaged kids happy by visiting them...

How is their a sunk cost with this?

https://tvnz.co.nz/content/2301663/411317.html

Another example of a superstar here in Aus (i dont expect you to know him but he is very big here) that has turned his life around after finding God.

I dont know of ANY examples where a person did not have faith before, then found God and there life has gone in a bad way when compared to before...If you can show examples then i am all ears, but i dont know or heard of anyone.

Regarding the wrong God, that is false. This is a question that is often raised, "what if you are a muslim" etc etc, we know that God judges righteously.  Christians, person and Muslims all believe in the SAME God, the differences arise in the messiah.

I am now convinced you really dont know what you are sayimg....

First, this is nothing more than anectdotal evidence, which is inherently unreliable.  Shit, if this thread lasts long enough i'm convinced that you folks will run through every known logical fallacy and start inventing new ones.  Second, psychotherapists often precipitate the same positive changes in their drug addled charges without any religion involved.  Are shrinks gods?  Because if not, then the ability of belief to affect positive change in an individual's life is a pretty piss poor argument un favor of a god.  The only thing responsible for said change is the individual's brain, whether the causitive stimuli for change is faith based or secular.

I've been convinced that you have no idea what you are typing since I read your first post totally misrepresenting the views of roger penrose.

AAHHH, you get your views on cosmology from christian you tube videos.  I'm finally beginning to understand why you know fuck all about the science you repeatedly and bafflingly reference.  I seriously doubt that you even took an undergrad calc course.  Get fucking real.

Even if pascal's wager wre not logically ridiculous, it would still be morally repugnant you cosmic hedge fund manager.  You should explain it to your stunted little friend who likes to use the word coward in every post, as it is truly cowardice writ large.  Pascals wager= I don't really believe this horseshit, but I better pretend i do just in case...

Rostos heros CV, from wiki-

Academic background

Craig received a Bachelor of Arts degree in communications from Wheaton College, Illinois, in 1971 and two summa juice laude master's degrees from Trinity Evangelical Divinity School in Deerfield, Illinois, in 1975, in philosophy of religion and ecclesiastical history.^[4] He earned a Ph.D. in philosophy under John Hick at the University of Birmingham, England in 1977 and a Th.D. under Wolfhart Pannenberg at the University of Munich in 1984.^[5] From 1980 to 1986 he was an assistant professor of philosophy at Trinity Evangelical Divinity School. He briefly held the position of associate professor of religious studies at Westmont College in Santa Barbara, California, from 1986 to 1987. From 1987 to 1994 Craig pursued further research at the University of Leuven, Belgium. Since 1996 he has held the position of research professor of philosophy at Talbot School of Theology, Biola University in La Mirada, Califor

Funny, I don't see any hard science there at all.  Who would have thunk it.

Why is this unreliable?

KK tried to point out that Pascals wager is false, like all atheists try to because there is a sunk costs associated with it. I have shown 2 real life examples, where not only is it not a sunk cost, but people have turned there lives around for the better.

So in the case of Jarryd Hayne and Josh Hamilton, it is a win win situation all round.

In my example with the bookmaker, could you imagine how bad and angry bookmaker b feels? Thats how God will judge.

They were interviewing one of the scientists involved in the creation theorem.......

Is that really an answer? Read your answer, you said nothing but verbal diorreah........

I know its irrelevant to the wager, but the atheists have been saying that it is false because of the impact it has on the persons real life,

The proponants of Pascals wager state you should believe in God because if you are wrong, you lose nothing, the atheists response is, well yes there is, you do lose something, ie, time for prayer, donations to the church, changing your moral compass to fit the 10 commandments etc etc  

As i have shown with Hayne and Hamilton, this is a fallacious argument.