Posted:
#4426
Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:
And how did the universe come into existence?
That's a good question, but I don't see what Christianity has to do with that.
0
If Christ died on the cross for all of humanity
Posted:
#4427
Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:
Not really.
I said i wasnt going to post anymore in this forum, but i should have clarified to say i wouldnt to KK, Miks and system as i have exhausted everything with them.
If you read through the posts , you will see that the latest cosmology studies indicate the universe began to exist. At this point, space, time and matter began to exist.
All indicators point to a spaceless, timeless and immaterial cause of the universe.....Wonder what that sounds like...
So take your pick
https://www.graveyardofthegods.org/deadgods/listofgods.html
0
Posted:
#4428
"All indicators point to a spaceless, timeless and immaterial cause of the universe...."
Even if William Lame's Craig's assertion is true, all it gets you to is deism. There is no way to determine what God if any created the universe other than the one you feel the most emotionally attached too.
Even if William Lame's Craig's assertion is true, all it gets you to is deism. There is no way to determine what God if any created the universe other than the one you feel the most emotionally attached too.
0
Posted:
#4429
Quote Originally Posted by Wayne317:
You just said that everyone (including this tribe) knows there is a God. These people are clear evidence that everyone does not know there is a God. So yes, your faith is wrong. Anybody with half a brain can see i refuted that statement.
You just said that everyone (including this tribe) knows there is a God. These people are clear evidence that everyone does not know there is a God. So yes, your faith is wrong. Anybody with half a brain can see i refuted that statement.
Christ is the son of God. My passage was refering to God "the Father". Christ is God is human flesh.
No one has an excuse in regrards to God the "holy Father".
You refuted nothing.
Maybe you could explain why God never bothered to introduce himself to them? Funny how with no man made book called the bible Jesus doesn't exist.
Maybe he has and your not listening.
Your ancient iron age middle eastern God does not judge righteously. It judges on one piece of criteria only. If you believe in a story that is in a book or not. You could be the most kind giving, loving person, never committed any crime and and has not gotten a traffic ticket or even littered. But if you don't believe a story in a book, according to your beliefs that person is going to be punished forever.
He judges righteously. You are not the judge, and neither am i.
You make an example of someone as if someone can live a life of sin free? That person you refer to in your example, he or she might look like that to you, but how do you know he doesnt beat himself off every night to little children or touches little kids innappropriately? DONT JUDGE.
Everyone is a sinner. The difference between a believer and non believer is tha the believer an ask for forgiveness.
Meanwhile a serial killer on death row who's spent the last 15-20 asking for forgiveness convinces himself that Jesus has forgiven him. I have to use the word convince because there is no way anyone can verify if Jesus has done so or not since he's such a scared little box and is afraid to show up and verify it.
Again, look at my example above, dont judge anyone. You dont know what is inside the heart and mind of anyone but yourself.
This serial killer according to your religion gets to go to heaven and a regular joe whose only crime was not belving in a book of magic gets punished forever. And you call that righteous? I call it bullshit. But i don't blame that on any God, because all Gods were made up by con men to trick stupid superstitious people to doing what they want them to do.
See above. So on one hand Gods were made up to control people, now the same people(s) are telling everyone God is not real.....Which one is it? 
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Posted:
#4430
Quote Originally Posted by Wayne317:
"All indicators point to a spaceless, timeless and immaterial cause of the universe...."
Even if William Lame's Craig's assertion is true, all it gets you to is deism. There is no way to determine what God if any created the universe other than the one you feel the most emotionally attached too.
"All indicators point to a spaceless, timeless and immaterial cause of the universe...."
Even if William Lame's Craig's assertion is true, all it gets you to is deism. There is no way to determine what God if any created the universe other than the one you feel the most emotionally attached too.
Why the need to call him that?
I never said that the origins of the universe prove the Christian God, i have made very clear throughout these posts. All what the latest cosmology studies prove that naturalism is false.
The origins of the universe point to a spaceless, timeless and immaterial cause of the universe. When you combine that with the historicity of Christ, objective morals values, it points very powerfully to the Christian God.
0
Posted:
#4431
Quote Originally Posted by Wayne317:
So take your pick
https://www.graveyardofthegods.org/deadgods/listofgods.html
So take your pick
https://www.graveyardofthegods.org/deadgods/listofgods.html
It doesnt load.
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Posted:
#4433
Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:
Let me make it clear i am only addressing Waynes posts. There is no need to have further discussions with KK, System and micks as i have stated we have exhausted everything almost possible with each other.
Let me make it clear i am only addressing Waynes posts. There is no need to have further discussions with KK, System and micks as i have stated we have exhausted everything almost possible with each other.
I have no interest in getting back into an argument over this, but I thought you'd like to know that the 2nd law of thermodynamics may be wrong. Apparently the heat emitted from the sun gets hotter as it gets further away. Somehow it goes from 5,500 degrees celsius to 995,000 degrees celsius. This is incredible and shouldn't be possible if the 2nd law is correct. I just wanted to point out that we still have no idea how the universe works.
I'm also curious as to how you and the other guys have been doing, so how are you? lol This also goes for smooth and whoever else was involved in the discussion, except for people named SirJohnDrake. I really have no interest in talking to that imbecile. 
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Posted:
#4434
Quote Originally Posted by Mikniks:
I have no interest in getting back into an argument over this, but I thought you'd like to know that the 2nd law of thermodynamics may be wrong. Apparently the heat emitted from the sun gets hotter as it gets further away. Somehow it goes from 5,500 degrees celsius to 995,000 degrees celsius. This is incredible and shouldn't be possible if the 2nd law is correct. I just wanted to point out that we still have no idea how the universe works.
I'm also curious as to how you and the other guys have been doing, so how are you? lol This also goes for smooth and whoever else was involved in the discussion, except for people named SirJohnDrake. I really have no interest in talking to that imbecile.
Yeah no worries mate, i am 33 yrs old.....
0
Posted:
#4436
Quote Originally Posted by Mikniks:
I really don't want this thread to start up again, but I had to tell you that you are a moron. That is all. Goody day...
I really don't want this thread to start up again, but I had to tell you that you are a moron. That is all. Goody day...
The simple fact that you have to use "name calling" as a way to express yourself, defines you.
So people are idiots if they have experienced something for a fact that is counter to what you think? Makes me wonder why you tolerate anyone.
Since time began people have been trying to prove the existence of God with a scientific approach, and have failed. These include much better minds than yours (or mine). However, isn't it amazing that even those best minds, when having exhausted every possible way to deny the existence of God, because they could not prove otherwise, came to the conclusion that there must be. I will not enter into an argument with you. These forums are meant for civil discussions, where we all tolerate different points of views. But if you continue to verbally abuse me or others on Covers, I'll see to it that you are banned from Covers.
0
Posted:
#4440
Quote Originally Posted by Mikniks:
I have no interest in getting back into an argument over this, but I thought you'd like to know that the 2nd law of thermodynamics may be wrong. Apparently the heat emitted from the sun gets hotter as it gets further away. Somehow it goes from 5,500 degrees celsius to 995,000 degrees celsius. This is incredible and shouldn't be possible if the 2nd law is correct. I just wanted to point out that we still have no idea how the universe works.
I'm also curious as to how you and the other guys have been doing, so how are you? lol This also goes for smooth and whoever else was involved in the discussion, except for people named SirJohnDrake. I really have no interest in talking to that imbecile.
It's not cold anymore!!!! 
makin the golf course look good for ya bro hahaha hows everything up north?
makin the golf course look good for ya bro hahaha hows everything up north?0
Posted:
#4441
"Christ is the son of God. My passage was refering to God "the Father". Christ is God is human flesh.
So the creator of a 13.7 billion year universe with over 100 billion galaxies came to this dust speck on the side of the universe to a middle eastern desert in the form of a human being? Then went on a 33yr suicide mission? For an original sin that was never committed in the first place. And we are supposed to believe that magical bullshit?
"No one has an excuse in regrards to God the "holy Father".
Yes they do. Because the majority of the world currently and the majority of everyone who ever lived were and are non Christians. Because in their culture they didn't worship your God,
your beliefs state they deserve torture for all eternity because they grew up in the wrong geographical location.
"You refuted nothing."
That's not up to you but the people reading this. See when I debate science denying superstitious people like you my goal isn't to change your mind but the mind of the people reading that maybe on the fence one way or another.
"You make an example of someone as if someone can live a life of sin free? That person you refer to in your example, he or she might look like that to you, but how do you know he doesnt beat himself off every night to little children or touches little kids innappropriately? DONT JUDGE."
The point wasn't that they lived a sin free life. It doesn't matter if they live a sin free life or not. Your beliefs state that morality has NOTHING to in relation to going to your magical Disney land in the sky. Your God judges solely on if you believe in his incredibly silly story of him coming to earth and killing himself (suicide by cop) and that's it.
"Everyone is a sinner. The difference between a believer and non believer is tha the believer an ask for forgiveness."
I'm not, because i don't believe in your fairy tale nonsense and the only people i need to ask forgiveness for is people i may have treated wrong. You don't have to do that. You can treat anybody like shit, then say sorry to the dead Jesus and promise not to do it again and that settles it.
"Again, look at my example above, dont judge anyone. You dont know what is inside the heart and mind of anyone but yourself."
It doesn't matter what's in their heart if they don't believe in the Jesus suicide story. That's my whole point. Your God rewards people based on how gullible they are to believe in magic.
"So on one hand Gods were made up to control people"
The clergy is still in charge of Churches right? They are lying sacks of shit. All of them. Telling kids they'll burn forever for not believing in a magical story. You and them should be ashamed of yourselves. This is something i learned when i was 5 years old. Dead people stay dead, they don't wake up after a few days and fly to outerspace and promise to comeback later. Dead people don't' get out of their graves and walk around town. Are you kidding me?
If Gods exist, then they are subject to the laws of physics for at least two reasons.
Everything we've ever tested obeys the laws of physics, therefore:
1. There's no compelling evidence to suggest something could exist without following those laws. (Wishful thinking doesn't count as evidence.)
2. Since nothing ever measured has ever broken those laws, that means gods (if they exist) have never "bent the rules" so either they don't want to, or they can't. Either way, they don't and never have.
Based on laws of physics that you claim your God made, the story of Jesus and his magical resurrection impossible.
(Con't)
So the creator of a 13.7 billion year universe with over 100 billion galaxies came to this dust speck on the side of the universe to a middle eastern desert in the form of a human being? Then went on a 33yr suicide mission? For an original sin that was never committed in the first place. And we are supposed to believe that magical bullshit?
"No one has an excuse in regrards to God the "holy Father".
Yes they do. Because the majority of the world currently and the majority of everyone who ever lived were and are non Christians. Because in their culture they didn't worship your God,
your beliefs state they deserve torture for all eternity because they grew up in the wrong geographical location.
"You refuted nothing."
That's not up to you but the people reading this. See when I debate science denying superstitious people like you my goal isn't to change your mind but the mind of the people reading that maybe on the fence one way or another.
"You make an example of someone as if someone can live a life of sin free? That person you refer to in your example, he or she might look like that to you, but how do you know he doesnt beat himself off every night to little children or touches little kids innappropriately? DONT JUDGE."
The point wasn't that they lived a sin free life. It doesn't matter if they live a sin free life or not. Your beliefs state that morality has NOTHING to in relation to going to your magical Disney land in the sky. Your God judges solely on if you believe in his incredibly silly story of him coming to earth and killing himself (suicide by cop) and that's it.
"Everyone is a sinner. The difference between a believer and non believer is tha the believer an ask for forgiveness."
I'm not, because i don't believe in your fairy tale nonsense and the only people i need to ask forgiveness for is people i may have treated wrong. You don't have to do that. You can treat anybody like shit, then say sorry to the dead Jesus and promise not to do it again and that settles it.
"Again, look at my example above, dont judge anyone. You dont know what is inside the heart and mind of anyone but yourself."
It doesn't matter what's in their heart if they don't believe in the Jesus suicide story. That's my whole point. Your God rewards people based on how gullible they are to believe in magic.
"So on one hand Gods were made up to control people"
The clergy is still in charge of Churches right? They are lying sacks of shit. All of them. Telling kids they'll burn forever for not believing in a magical story. You and them should be ashamed of yourselves. This is something i learned when i was 5 years old. Dead people stay dead, they don't wake up after a few days and fly to outerspace and promise to comeback later. Dead people don't' get out of their graves and walk around town. Are you kidding me?
If Gods exist, then they are subject to the laws of physics for at least two reasons.
Everything we've ever tested obeys the laws of physics, therefore:
1. There's no compelling evidence to suggest something could exist without following those laws. (Wishful thinking doesn't count as evidence.)
2. Since nothing ever measured has ever broken those laws, that means gods (if they exist) have never "bent the rules" so either they don't want to, or they can't. Either way, they don't and never have.
Based on laws of physics that you claim your God made, the story of Jesus and his magical resurrection impossible.
(Con't)
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Posted:
#4442
"now the same people(s) are telling everyone God is not real.....Which one is it"
No they are not the same people. Now that you can't burn people alive for not believing in your magical non sense people are speaking out against it.
Let's just get one thing clear, I'm not against creators if they exist. I'm not against the search for creators. I just don't know what religion has to do with that at all. All religion ever does is stand in the way because discoveries contradict their magical books.
"I never said that the origins of the universe prove the Christian God"
Well that's good, because the Christian God is an unfalsifiable claim and therefor irrelevant in a discussion about the origins of anything.
"I have made very clear throughout these posts. All what the latest cosmology studies prove that naturalism is false."
This is why i can't stand science denying superstionists. Not having an current answer to a question doesn't mean that by default magic creation by incantation spell is the correct answer. If people thought like you do we would still say Gods responsible for thunder, lighting, rain, earthquakes, and sickness and every other thing that was unexplainable once upon a time. We'd still be throwing virgins in volcanoes in hopes they would not erupt. This is the same mentality that you are displaying in 2012. We don't know everything right now, therefor nobody will ever know, that means it was done by magic.
That's not even the worst part about it, fact is even if we had an answer, you would not accept it unless it was in agreement with you holy book. Would you be willing to admit that? You are forbidden to agree with anything that contradicts that even if it's shown to be correct.
So what difference does it make what the latest cosmology says when you don't believe in any of it to begin with? To not accept science then say "latest cosmology says" is very dishonest but that's all you people are anyway. It's not only cosmology either you probably deny current biology and geology as well. To hold your position you have to pretty much deny every field of science all together. Quit pretending that you accept current science, that's a lie and you know it.
The origins of the universe point to a spaceless, timeless and immaterial cause of the universe.
Again pick one https://www.graveyardofthegods.org/deadgods/listofgods.html
It loads for me, but it has thousands of potential space-less, timeless and immaterial causes of the universe. All of which you would have believed in had you live in those times and those locations.
" When you combine that with the historicity of Christ, objective morals values, it points very powerfully to the Christian God."
This proves what i just said. "There is no way to determine what God if any created the universe other than the one you feel the most emotionally attached too."
Thanks for confirming that.
The origins of the universe have nothing at all to do with man made scripture of magical human/gods killing themselves or humans definition of objective moral values. Those are both 100% independent of each other. The universe was here before us and if not for 2 fused ape chromosomes we would not be here and nobody would have ever know what objective moral values were but the universe would have still been here. ( being the science denier that you are i can't wait to read your response to that)
So the creation of the universe has nothing at all with anything regarding us. Humans have only been here less than 1% of the universe existence (again i know you don't believe that being a science denier) Christianity and Christians have no place at the table of discussion for the origins of the universe. That is a discussion for people who actually have to do research not read a book of ancient desert myths and say this is the way it happened because it says so in this book. You people have no objective or verifiable means of determine the origins of the universe. Most of you do a great job of feeding the poor and charity work, stick to that. Leave origins to people who actually have a real method to find things out.
No they are not the same people. Now that you can't burn people alive for not believing in your magical non sense people are speaking out against it.
Let's just get one thing clear, I'm not against creators if they exist. I'm not against the search for creators. I just don't know what religion has to do with that at all. All religion ever does is stand in the way because discoveries contradict their magical books.
"I never said that the origins of the universe prove the Christian God"
Well that's good, because the Christian God is an unfalsifiable claim and therefor irrelevant in a discussion about the origins of anything.
"I have made very clear throughout these posts. All what the latest cosmology studies prove that naturalism is false."
This is why i can't stand science denying superstionists. Not having an current answer to a question doesn't mean that by default magic creation by incantation spell is the correct answer. If people thought like you do we would still say Gods responsible for thunder, lighting, rain, earthquakes, and sickness and every other thing that was unexplainable once upon a time. We'd still be throwing virgins in volcanoes in hopes they would not erupt. This is the same mentality that you are displaying in 2012. We don't know everything right now, therefor nobody will ever know, that means it was done by magic.
That's not even the worst part about it, fact is even if we had an answer, you would not accept it unless it was in agreement with you holy book. Would you be willing to admit that? You are forbidden to agree with anything that contradicts that even if it's shown to be correct.
So what difference does it make what the latest cosmology says when you don't believe in any of it to begin with? To not accept science then say "latest cosmology says" is very dishonest but that's all you people are anyway. It's not only cosmology either you probably deny current biology and geology as well. To hold your position you have to pretty much deny every field of science all together. Quit pretending that you accept current science, that's a lie and you know it.
The origins of the universe point to a spaceless, timeless and immaterial cause of the universe.
Again pick one https://www.graveyardofthegods.org/deadgods/listofgods.html
It loads for me, but it has thousands of potential space-less, timeless and immaterial causes of the universe. All of which you would have believed in had you live in those times and those locations.
" When you combine that with the historicity of Christ, objective morals values, it points very powerfully to the Christian God."
This proves what i just said. "There is no way to determine what God if any created the universe other than the one you feel the most emotionally attached too."
Thanks for confirming that.
The origins of the universe have nothing at all to do with man made scripture of magical human/gods killing themselves or humans definition of objective moral values. Those are both 100% independent of each other. The universe was here before us and if not for 2 fused ape chromosomes we would not be here and nobody would have ever know what objective moral values were but the universe would have still been here. ( being the science denier that you are i can't wait to read your response to that)
So the creation of the universe has nothing at all with anything regarding us. Humans have only been here less than 1% of the universe existence (again i know you don't believe that being a science denier) Christianity and Christians have no place at the table of discussion for the origins of the universe. That is a discussion for people who actually have to do research not read a book of ancient desert myths and say this is the way it happened because it says so in this book. You people have no objective or verifiable means of determine the origins of the universe. Most of you do a great job of feeding the poor and charity work, stick to that. Leave origins to people who actually have a real method to find things out.
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Posted:
#4443
No offense to anybody posting in here now, but honestly, probably everything that will be said from here on out is stuff that has already been mentioned, argued over, etc in this thread. The creator of this thread himself said to just let it go, so let's honor his wish. If you want to bring something up, make your own thread, and people can make their decision as to post or not post in that particular thread. I am reluctantly not going to comment on what has been recently said, even though I want to. Let's just honor the man's wish fellas
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Posted:
#4444
Quote Originally Posted by BigJeezy70:
ALL religions are based on faith. You either have faith or you don't. I don't. I'm an athiest and will argue to the death with anyone about it.
Religions are good for one thing.....WARS.
If i had any musical talent at all I'd make a remake of the song war by Edwin Star:
Religion what is it good for? Absolutely nothing!!
0
Posted:
#4446
Quote Originally Posted by Wayne317:
"Christ is the son of God. My passage was refering to God "the Father". Christ is God is human flesh.
So the creator of a 13.7 billion year universe with over 100 billion galaxies came to this dust speck on the side of the universe to a middle eastern desert in the form of a human being? Then went on a 33yr suicide mission? For an original sin that was never committed in the first place. And we are supposed to believe that magical bullshit?
"Christ is the son of God. My passage was refering to God "the Father". Christ is God is human flesh.
So the creator of a 13.7 billion year universe with over 100 billion galaxies came to this dust speck on the side of the universe to a middle eastern desert in the form of a human being? Then went on a 33yr suicide mission? For an original sin that was never committed in the first place. And we are supposed to believe that magical bullshit?
So, now you are saying that God should have done it differently? How do you know how Gods should act? What standard or basis do you have to compare this against? How do you know how he should have done it? Your answer will be nothing but speculation as you have no "manual" on how God should act.
"No one has an excuse in regrards to God the "holy Father".
Yes they do. Because the majority of the world currently and the majority of everyone who ever lived were and are non Christians. Because in their culture they didn't worship your God,
your beliefs state they deserve torture for all eternity because they grew up in the wrong geographical location.
There is a difference between someone NOT HEARING about the gospel at all and someone that does but rejectes it, ie, rejects Christ and chooses another religion. As i stated, God judges righteously.
"You refuted nothing."
That's not up to you but the people reading this. See when I debate science denying superstitious people like you my goal isn't to change your mind but the mind of the people reading that maybe on the fence one way or another.
In my view, your responses didnt refue anything. The scripture states that God judges righteously. End of discussion. if one has never heard of the Gospel, God doesnt send them to hell for not accepting Christ. This is a typical atheist misconception that fails..
"You make an example of someone as if someone can live a life of sin free? That person you refer to in your example, he or she might look like that to you, but how do you know he doesnt beat himself off every night to little children or touches little kids innappropriately? DONT JUDGE."
The point wasn't that they lived a sin free life. It doesn't matter if they live a sin free life or not. Your beliefs state that morality has NOTHING to in relation to going to your magical Disney land in the sky. Your God judges solely on if you believe in his incredibly silly story of him coming to earth and killing himself (suicide by cop) and that's it.
It has EVERYTHING to do with sin. That was the reason why Christ was crucified. It has everything to do with morality. I love how you try and degrade my God into a magical figure, i can already tell you are more anti God charged with emotion. I dont know why you keep on making judgements about who gets to go to heavan and who doesnt. Christ says many times there is ONLY one judge. I havent told anyone here if they are going to heavan to hell, yet you seem to think you can.
"Everyone is a sinner. The difference between a believer and non believer is tha the believer an ask for forgiveness."
I'm not, because i don't believe in your fairy tale nonsense and the only people i need to ask forgiveness for is people i may have treated wrong. You don't have to do that. You can treat anybody like shit, then say sorry to the dead Jesus and promise not to do it again and that settles it.
So your not a sinner? You have already used Gods name in vain, so straight away you have sinned and backed that up with a lie claiming that you have never sinned. Furthermore, you like most atheists seem to think that Chrostians can say " i will go and murder someone now, then after i do it, i will ask for forgiveness and all will be good". It doesnt work like that bud.
"Again, look at my example above, dont judge anyone. You dont know what is inside the heart and mind of anyone but yourself."
It doesn't matter what's in their heart if they don't believe in the Jesus suicide story. That's my whole point. Your God rewards people based on how gullible they are to believe in magic.
DONT JUDGE.
"So on one hand Gods were made up to control people"
The clergy is still in charge of Churches right? They are lying sacks of shit. All of them. Telling kids they'll burn forever for not believing in a magical story. You and them should be ashamed of yourselves. This is something i learned when i was 5 years old. Dead people stay dead, they don't wake up after a few days and fly to outerspace and promise to comeback later. Dead people don't' get out of their graves and walk around town. Are you kidding me?
Again, you are more anti God. Hypothetically, lets assume God doesnt exist, is it bad to tell someone that they will go to hell and scare them if they steal, lie, rape, murder etc? Maybe if people acted more in accordance with the commandments, the world wouldnt be such a f###ing mess the way it is.......
Who said anything about physically dead people walking up from there graves?
If Gods exist, then they are subject to the laws of physics for at least two reasons.
Everything we've ever tested obeys the laws of physics, therefore:
1. There's no compelling evidence to suggest something could exist without following those laws. (Wishful thinking doesn't count as evidence.)
2. Since nothing ever measured has ever broken those laws, that means gods (if they exist) have never "bent the rules" so either they don't want to, or they can't. Either way, they don't and never have.
Based on laws of physics that you claim your God made, the story of Jesus and his magical resurrection impossible.
(Con't)
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Posted:
#4447
@ Wayne continued
The bottom line is , you believe something pop into existence FROM NOTHING, (and you say i believe in a disney story). Things coming into being from nothing has never been observed and to think it can happen is ludicorous
Furthermore, when something popped into existence from nothing, the rare of explansion was so precise that out of pure luck, a universe was formed. The rate of expnason if slower or faster than smallest of fractions would have meant there was no universe.
Then out of more pure luck, a lightining rod hit a pond causing life to occur.
Then out of more out of more pure luck, this single cell organism, replicated , and then out of more luck, ended up being a human being.
And you say my story is a fairy tale.......
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Posted:
#4450
@ wayne continued
How has science disproven God? What Sciences have disproven God? This is another atheistic myth, that science is their back bone and disproved God. This is so far from the truth. Science itself is based on faith. Has science shown that living can come from non living? NO? Has science shown that things can pop into existence from nothing? NO....The atheist should be afraid of science, not religion.
The origins of the universe point to a spaceless, timeless and immaterial cause of the universe.
Again pick one https://www.graveyardofthegods.org/deadgods/listofgods.html
It loads for me, but it has thousands of potential space-less, timeless and immaterial causes of the universe. All of which you would have believed in had you live in those times and those locations.
I cant load it.......As i said, the origins of the universe renders naturalim false,. The athest doesnt believe of anything outside the natural universe, ie, supernatural. So the atheist has a problem doesnt it. This only adds wait to Gods existence.
" When you combine that with the historicity of Christ, objective morals values, it points very powerfully to the Christian God."
This proves what i just said. "There is no way to determine what God if any created the universe other than the one you feel the most emotionally attached too."
Thanks for confirming that.
I never said that the argument in isolation proves the Christian God. You havent argued against this argument that it points strongly to a super natural cause of the universe, all what you are doing is saying it doesnt prove the Christian God....Dont run away from it....Then you will say we dont know....again, in and out of atheism and agnosticism...Not very intellectually honest.
The origins of the universe have nothing at all to do with man made scripture of magical human/gods killing themselves or humans definition of objective moral values. Those are both 100% independent of each other. The universe was here before us and if not for 2 fused ape chromosomes we would not be here and nobody would have ever know what objective moral values were but the universe would have still been here. ( being the science denier that you are i can't wait to read your response to that)
So now evolution is fact? Oh dear...and you say i have been brainwashed......oh dear.....
But i will play here, so therefore, there is no reason for your existince, you are just luck......You have no ultimate purpose. You have no intrinsic value. There is no reason why i cant murder you. You are nothing more than a rock that i kick on the side of the road, because like the rock, you have no reason for your existence.
So the creation of the universe has nothing at all with anything regarding us. Humans have only been here less than 1% of the universe existence (again i know you don't believe that being a science denier) Christianity and Christians have no place at the table of discussion for the origins of the universe. That is a discussion for people who actually have to do research not read a book of ancient desert myths and say this is the way it happened because it says so in this book. You people have no objective or verifiable means of determine the origins of the universe. Most of you do a great job of feeding the poor and charity work, stick to that. Leave origins to people who actually have a real method to find things out.
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