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    All Forums | General Discussion

    If Christ died on the cross for all of humanity

    «First Previous 464748 ... 213214215 Next Last»
    Quantum_Leap
    archsage
    jagerfury
    SirJohnDrake
    Godsplay
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    Quantum_Leap
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    Posted: Nov. 4, 2011 - 6:42 PM ET #1126

    Quote Originally Posted by matt4000:

    Quantum Leap continued...

    8.) How did Saul of Tarsus, the chief persecutor of Christians convert to become the Apostle Paul, the chief follower of Jesus if he didn’t really have an encounter with a risen Jesus? Logically, if Jesus didn’t really rise from the dead, Saul would just gloat in his victory, exposing Jesus as a fraud who couldn’t conquer death after all, so what event could have caused him to convert? Answer: He must have actually encountered the risen Jesus as recorded.

    Paul of course, is the only reason Christianity did not fade away in its infancy. The fact that he was opposing the early Christian groups give rise to the notion that he indeed was susceptiple to imagining his adversary in a psyshotramautic vision--quest.

    Whatever. Once again we are debating supernatural events. How can I disprove a vision that one person supposedly saw?

    Let me ask you this: What kind of father of God would hide himself in this way?

    Let me put it another way: What kind of supernatural being prefers to leave behind confusion in his wake? Who is it really that commits good deeds and bad deeds (and the God of the old testament did quite a number of them --"and so He smote them, women and children..."), just out of a kind of pleasure seeking whim?

    The answer: A trickster.

    Our ancients have passed on countless stories of tricksters, and Jehovah is a prime example of the trickster who does both good and evil and hides himself.


    Eli...Eli...why hast Thou forsaken me?"

    It is what it is.

    And what I am not is an atheist--no labels (not you, but others have called me that). I do not want a black vs white "deist vs Atheist battle. I am simply expanding consciousness, if at all possible.

    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by matt4000:

    Quantum Leap continued...

    8.) How did Saul of Tarsus, the chief persecutor of Christians convert to become the Apostle Paul, the chief follower of Jesus if he didn’t really have an encounter with a risen Jesus? Logically, if Jesus didn’t really rise from the dead, Saul would just gloat in his victory, exposing Jesus as a fraud who couldn’t conquer death after all, so what event could have caused him to convert? Answer: He must have actually encountered the risen Jesus as recorded.

    Paul of course, is the only reason Christianity did not fade away in its infancy. The fact that he was opposing the early Christian groups give rise to the notion that he indeed was susceptiple to imagining his adversary in a psyshotramautic vision--quest.

    Whatever. Once again we are debating supernatural events. How can I disprove a vision that one person supposedly saw?

    Let me ask you this: What kind of father of God would hide himself in this way?

    Let me put it another way: What kind of supernatural being prefers to leave behind confusion in his wake? Who is it really that commits good deeds and bad deeds (and the God of the old testament did quite a number of them --"and so He smote them, women and children..."), just out of a kind of pleasure seeking whim?

    The answer: A trickster.

    Our ancients have passed on countless stories of tricksters, and Jehovah is a prime example of the trickster who does both good and evil and hides himself.


    Eli...Eli...why hast Thou forsaken me?"

    It is what it is.

    And what I am not is an atheist--no labels (not you, but others have called me that). I do not want a black vs white "deist vs Atheist battle. I am simply expanding consciousness, if at all possible.

     
    archsage
    archsage
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    Posted: Nov. 5, 2011 - 11:56 AM ET #1127

    Quantum_Leap: What kind of supernatural being prefers to leave behind confusion in his wake?

    The only way for God to get rid of all confusion is to completely reject human volition -- something that God would not do. If we are to have volition, then, logically both God and confusion can both exist.

    Quantum_Leap: Who is it really that commits good deeds and bad deeds?

    You'd have to define the terms "good" and "bad". As it is, I don't know what exactly you are referring to with those terms.

    Quatum_Leap: "Eli...Eli...why hast Thou forsaken me?"

    This bible verse, most likely, has been mistranslated from the original Aramaic, which is why it was left in the text in it's original form, and why even in scriptures its meaning was obscure.

    Quantum_Leap: And what I am not is an atheist

    What are you then? One can either be a Theist, or an Atheist. And, human ignorance permits you to be Agnostic (literally, without-gnostic -- 'lacking knowledge').
    Reply
    Quantum_Leap: What kind of supernatural being prefers to leave behind confusion in his wake?

    The only way for God to get rid of all confusion is to completely reject human volition -- something that God would not do. If we are to have volition, then, logically both God and confusion can both exist.

    Quantum_Leap: Who is it really that commits good deeds and bad deeds?

    You'd have to define the terms "good" and "bad". As it is, I don't know what exactly you are referring to with those terms.

    Quatum_Leap: "Eli...Eli...why hast Thou forsaken me?"

    This bible verse, most likely, has been mistranslated from the original Aramaic, which is why it was left in the text in it's original form, and why even in scriptures its meaning was obscure.

    Quantum_Leap: And what I am not is an atheist

    What are you then? One can either be a Theist, or an Atheist. And, human ignorance permits you to be Agnostic (literally, without-gnostic -- 'lacking knowledge').
     
    jagerfury
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    Posted: Nov. 5, 2011 - 9:46 PM ET #1128

    Quote Originally Posted by matt4000:

    What Can We Say About the History of Jesus?

    The indisputable conclusion from all of these friendly and unfriendly historical sources is that there really was a Jesus of Nazareth in history.   A Jesus who lived a life unlike any another other before Him or since; one who taught like any other teacher has ever taught; one who performed real miracles that defied the laws of nature and testified to His divinity; one who really died on a cross outside the city of Jerusalem; one who made claims unlike any other; and one -- and the only one - who really rose from the dead.

    I could find just as many historical references to the life and times of Santa Claus. Doesn't make his existence a reality. Just means there is a lot of ink on the imaginary man.
    I'd rather be playing D&D.
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by matt4000:

    What Can We Say About the History of Jesus?

    The indisputable conclusion from all of these friendly and unfriendly historical sources is that there really was a Jesus of Nazareth in history.   A Jesus who lived a life unlike any another other before Him or since; one who taught like any other teacher has ever taught; one who performed real miracles that defied the laws of nature and testified to His divinity; one who really died on a cross outside the city of Jerusalem; one who made claims unlike any other; and one -- and the only one - who really rose from the dead.

    I could find just as many historical references to the life and times of Santa Claus. Doesn't make his existence a reality. Just means there is a lot of ink on the imaginary man.
     
    SirJohnDrake
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    Posted: Nov. 6, 2011 - 1:53 PM ET #1129

    Quote Originally Posted by jagerfury:

    I could find just as many historical references to the life and times of Santa Claus. Doesn't make his existence a reality. Just means there is a lot of ink on the imaginary man.

    Almost everybody knows jolly old Santa is just a made up character while Jesus was for real. 

    Santa's references will be found in the fairy tale made up fictional books while Jesus' references  will be found in the non-fictional historical books such as the Holy Bible.

     

    Reply

    Quote Originally Posted by jagerfury:

    I could find just as many historical references to the life and times of Santa Claus. Doesn't make his existence a reality. Just means there is a lot of ink on the imaginary man.

    Almost everybody knows jolly old Santa is just a made up character while Jesus was for real. 

    Santa's references will be found in the fairy tale made up fictional books while Jesus' references  will be found in the non-fictional historical books such as the Holy Bible.

     

     
    Godsplay
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    Posted: Nov. 6, 2011 - 3:22 PM ET #1130

    Quote Originally Posted by E-Muffin:

     

    Wow! I actually watched this and wish I hadn't. No offense, but that was terrible and that guy was WAY to annoying. I prefer a more realistic approach. Again, no offense.

    Thanks for watching.
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by E-Muffin:

     

    Wow! I actually watched this and wish I hadn't. No offense, but that was terrible and that guy was WAY to annoying. I prefer a more realistic approach. Again, no offense.

    Thanks for watching.
     
    Droxside
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    Posted: Nov. 6, 2011 - 10:19 PM ET #1131

    I'm still here, god has not struck me down yet....LMFAO...
    Reply
    I'm still here, god has not struck me down yet....LMFAO...
     
    Droxside
    Droxside
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    Posted: Nov. 6, 2011 - 10:20 PM ET #1132

    In the famous words of Freddie Fender..."wasted days and wasted nights" from both sides...
    Reply
    In the famous words of Freddie Fender..."wasted days and wasted nights" from both sides...
     
    Quantum_Leap
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    Posted: Nov. 8, 2011 - 1:21 PM ET #1133

    Quote Originally Posted by archsage:

    Quantum_Leap: What kind of supernatural being prefers to leave behind confusion in his wake?

    The only way for God to get rid of all confusion is to completely reject human volition -- something that God would not do. If we are to have volition, then, logically both God and confusion can both exist.

    Quantum_Leap: Who is it really that commits good deeds and bad deeds?

    You'd have to define the terms "good" and "bad". As it is, I don't know what exactly you are referring to with those terms.

    Quatum_Leap: "Eli...Eli...why hast Thou forsaken me?"

    This bible verse, most likely, has been mistranslated from the original Aramaic, which is why it was left in the text in it's original form, and why even in scriptures its meaning was obscure.

    Quantum_Leap: And what I am not is an atheist

    What are you then? One can either be a Theist, or an Atheist. And, human ignorance permits you to be Agnostic (literally, without-gnostic -- 'lacking knowledge').

    You don't really know that you have free will, or whether there are conditions that are determining your existence. You cannot presume you know God's intent. Why do you give God human emotions and thought processes? I could just as easily play the 'prickly intellectiual' who snobbishly believes he knows everything, and ask YOU all of the questions about HUGE errors and omissions in the bible--but choose not to do so, because it is ultimately useless. You play your game because you are trying (or support those who do try) to evangelicize, spread the word, convert non-believers.

    And ultimately (wittingly or otherwise) you are keeping man UNFREE (taking away his free will) by threatening him with damnation. So go ahead and play the 'modern Moses' game.' Whatever, man. Please lay off the rest of us--stop trying to realize your Earthly prizes--such as political power, economic power (a la Joel Osteen and his 'prosperity preaching' antics that influence millions) or territorial gains (the Catholic church is the largest landowner in the world), or influence world leaders (need I give examples throughout history of christian exploits, tortures, genocides...???).

    This is leading nowhere; as it is supposed to do.

    Reply

    Quote Originally Posted by archsage:

    Quantum_Leap: What kind of supernatural being prefers to leave behind confusion in his wake?

    The only way for God to get rid of all confusion is to completely reject human volition -- something that God would not do. If we are to have volition, then, logically both God and confusion can both exist.

    Quantum_Leap: Who is it really that commits good deeds and bad deeds?

    You'd have to define the terms "good" and "bad". As it is, I don't know what exactly you are referring to with those terms.

    Quatum_Leap: "Eli...Eli...why hast Thou forsaken me?"

    This bible verse, most likely, has been mistranslated from the original Aramaic, which is why it was left in the text in it's original form, and why even in scriptures its meaning was obscure.

    Quantum_Leap: And what I am not is an atheist

    What are you then? One can either be a Theist, or an Atheist. And, human ignorance permits you to be Agnostic (literally, without-gnostic -- 'lacking knowledge').

    You don't really know that you have free will, or whether there are conditions that are determining your existence. You cannot presume you know God's intent. Why do you give God human emotions and thought processes? I could just as easily play the 'prickly intellectiual' who snobbishly believes he knows everything, and ask YOU all of the questions about HUGE errors and omissions in the bible--but choose not to do so, because it is ultimately useless. You play your game because you are trying (or support those who do try) to evangelicize, spread the word, convert non-believers.

    And ultimately (wittingly or otherwise) you are keeping man UNFREE (taking away his free will) by threatening him with damnation. So go ahead and play the 'modern Moses' game.' Whatever, man. Please lay off the rest of us--stop trying to realize your Earthly prizes--such as political power, economic power (a la Joel Osteen and his 'prosperity preaching' antics that influence millions) or territorial gains (the Catholic church is the largest landowner in the world), or influence world leaders (need I give examples throughout history of christian exploits, tortures, genocides...???).

    This is leading nowhere; as it is supposed to do.

     
    Quantum_Leap
    Quantum_Leap
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    Posted: Nov. 8, 2011 - 1:35 PM ET #1134

    Oh, before you say "Those were non-christians..."to abdicate all the crusade soldiers and leaders (in all continents with different names, different motivations, flags, lusts), please ask yourself if it is fair to take away responsibility by Jesus' death on the cross?

    I cannot think of a more dangerous hoax than this. To let everyone off the hook because God allowed his only son to be beaten, then crucified (and by the way, Jesus never died on the cross--you cannot prove it, and it is more plausible he was hustled away before the end of Jewish Passover).

    To condone irresponsibility is SICK and a perversion, and is tantamount to carrying a weightes stone around us all until we slay all of these 'Thou Shalts' and uphold the best of humanity--taking care of the Earth (not being irresponsible and EGOTISTICAL).

    Reply

    Oh, before you say "Those were non-christians..."to abdicate all the crusade soldiers and leaders (in all continents with different names, different motivations, flags, lusts), please ask yourself if it is fair to take away responsibility by Jesus' death on the cross?

    I cannot think of a more dangerous hoax than this. To let everyone off the hook because God allowed his only son to be beaten, then crucified (and by the way, Jesus never died on the cross--you cannot prove it, and it is more plausible he was hustled away before the end of Jewish Passover).

    To condone irresponsibility is SICK and a perversion, and is tantamount to carrying a weightes stone around us all until we slay all of these 'Thou Shalts' and uphold the best of humanity--taking care of the Earth (not being irresponsible and EGOTISTICAL).

     
    SirJohnDrake
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    Posted: Nov. 8, 2011 - 3:42 PM ET #1135

    Quote Originally Posted by E-Muffin:

     

    Wow! I actually watched this and wish I hadn't. No offense, but that was terrible and that guy was WAY to annoying. I prefer a more realistic approach. Again, no offense.

    I watched it and glad I did, I found it quite entertaining and there were other videos just as entertaining.

    You can't watch it with a closed-mind...know what I mean? 

    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by E-Muffin:

     

    Wow! I actually watched this and wish I hadn't. No offense, but that was terrible and that guy was WAY to annoying. I prefer a more realistic approach. Again, no offense.

    I watched it and glad I did, I found it quite entertaining and there were other videos just as entertaining.

    You can't watch it with a closed-mind...know what I mean? 

     
    E-Muffin
    E-Muffin
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    Posted: Nov. 9, 2011 - 1:55 PM ET #1136

    Quote Originally Posted by SirJohnDrake:

    I watched it and glad I did, I found it quite entertaining and there were other videos just as entertaining.

    You can't watch it with a closed-mind...know what I mean? 

     

    The fact that I watched it shows I have an open mind. Had nothing to do with the message at all. It was more of how annoying the guy was and how unrealistic he acted.

    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by SirJohnDrake:

    I watched it and glad I did, I found it quite entertaining and there were other videos just as entertaining.

    You can't watch it with a closed-mind...know what I mean? 

     

    The fact that I watched it shows I have an open mind. Had nothing to do with the message at all. It was more of how annoying the guy was and how unrealistic he acted.

     
    Quantum_Leap
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    Posted: Nov. 9, 2011 - 3:42 PM ET #1137

    I sincerely hope this "teaparty" and "Occupy Wall Street" protesting ameliorates into some kind of "Occupy the Churches" movement. Churches have no right to enjoy a tax free status, and to avoid paying property taxes, and taking up PRIME REAL ESTATE across the country for no other purpose except to pander their religion to us, and to other countries (what a waste). They give nothing back--not even hope, only delusions.

    I wish it would happen in my lifetime that this real estate were used for schools, parks, hospitals--anything but for a failed religion. Future generations will be more enlightened than we were.

    OK, I'll start this right now: ELIMINATE TAX FREE STATUS for ALL RELIGIONS (and their businesses) NOW!!!! PAY OR GET OUT!!!!

    Reply

    I sincerely hope this "teaparty" and "Occupy Wall Street" protesting ameliorates into some kind of "Occupy the Churches" movement. Churches have no right to enjoy a tax free status, and to avoid paying property taxes, and taking up PRIME REAL ESTATE across the country for no other purpose except to pander their religion to us, and to other countries (what a waste). They give nothing back--not even hope, only delusions.

    I wish it would happen in my lifetime that this real estate were used for schools, parks, hospitals--anything but for a failed religion. Future generations will be more enlightened than we were.

    OK, I'll start this right now: ELIMINATE TAX FREE STATUS for ALL RELIGIONS (and their businesses) NOW!!!! PAY OR GET OUT!!!!

     
    SirJohnDrake
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    Posted: Nov. 9, 2011 - 3:59 PM ET #1138

    Quote Originally Posted by Droxside:

    I'm still here, god has not struck me down yet....LMFAO...

    It's just a matter of time son...just a matter of time.

    God said, "I will even laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your dread comes" (Prov. 1:26).

    Reply

    Quote Originally Posted by Droxside:

    I'm still here, god has not struck me down yet....LMFAO...

    It's just a matter of time son...just a matter of time.

    God said, "I will even laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your dread comes" (Prov. 1:26).

     
    mafiaboy1
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    Posted: Nov. 9, 2011 - 9:27 PM ET #1139

    First of all, I find it hard to believe that jesus never sin in his entire life, 95% of the male population jerks off and the othe 5% lie about it so he must of spanked it around sometime down the road.....what do u guys think?
    Reply
    First of all, I find it hard to believe that jesus never sin in his entire life, 95% of the male population jerks off and the othe 5% lie about it so he must of spanked it around sometime down the road.....what do u guys think?
     
    matt4000
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    Posted: Nov. 9, 2011 - 10:49 PM ET #1140

    Sorry guys. I have been busy with work and family. I haven't had time to respond. 
    Will respond the best I can when I have time to do so.
    Reply
    Sorry guys. I have been busy with work and family. I haven't had time to respond. 
    Will respond the best I can when I have time to do so.
     
    matt4000
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    Posted: Nov. 9, 2011 - 10:55 PM ET #1141

    KittyKat,

    I've been meaning to answer your question about"blasphemy of the Holy Spirit". Sorry, I forgot to.
    Anyway, here is exactly what it means...

    The blasphemy of the Spirit today, which is the same as the unpardonable sin, is the state of continued unbelief.

    There is no pardon for a person who dies in unbelief.

    Continual rejection of the Holy Spirit’s promptings to trust in Jesus Christ as your personal savior... is the unpardonable blasphemy against Him.

    Remember what is stated in John 3:16: “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.” 

    Further on in the same chapter is the verse “Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him” (John 3:36). 

    The only condition wherein someone would have no forgiveness is if he is not among the “whoever believes in Him,” for it is he who “rejects the Son."

    Reply
    KittyKat,

    I've been meaning to answer your question about"blasphemy of the Holy Spirit". Sorry, I forgot to.
    Anyway, here is exactly what it means...

    The blasphemy of the Spirit today, which is the same as the unpardonable sin, is the state of continued unbelief.

    There is no pardon for a person who dies in unbelief.

    Continual rejection of the Holy Spirit’s promptings to trust in Jesus Christ as your personal savior... is the unpardonable blasphemy against Him.

    Remember what is stated in John 3:16: “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.” 

    Further on in the same chapter is the verse “Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him” (John 3:36). 

    The only condition wherein someone would have no forgiveness is if he is not among the “whoever believes in Him,” for it is he who “rejects the Son."

     
    matt4000
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    Posted: Nov. 9, 2011 - 11:00 PM ET #1142

    KittyKat continued...

    The only condition in which someone would have no forgiveness is if he/she is not among the “whoever” that believes in Him.

    Jesus said, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me” (John 14:6).

    To reject the only means of salvation is to condemn oneself to an eternity in hell because to reject the only pardon is, obviously, unpardonable.

    Reply
    KittyKat continued...

    The only condition in which someone would have no forgiveness is if he/she is not among the “whoever” that believes in Him.

    Jesus said, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me” (John 14:6).

    To reject the only means of salvation is to condemn oneself to an eternity in hell because to reject the only pardon is, obviously, unpardonable.

     
    matt4000
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    Posted: Nov. 9, 2011 - 11:18 PM ET #1143

    SirJohnDrake and others,

    Did you ever here about Sir Lionel Luckhoo?

    Concerning Christ's resurrection...

    As for His resurrection, there are several lines of evidence which make for a compelling case. Anyway, I thought this was an interesting one.

    The late jurisprudential prodigy and international statesman Sir Lionel Luckhoo (of The Guinness Book of World Records fame for his unprecedented 245 consecutive defense murder trial acquittals).

    He epitomized Christian enthusiasm and confidence in the strength of the case for the resurrection when he wrote, “I have spent more than 42 years as a defense trial lawyer appearing in many parts of the world and am still in active practice. I have been fortunate to secure a number of successes in jury trials and I say unequivocally the evidence for the Resurrection of Jesus Christ is so overwhelming that it compels acceptance by proof which leaves absolutely no room for doubt.”
    Reply
    SirJohnDrake and others,

    Did you ever here about Sir Lionel Luckhoo?

    Concerning Christ's resurrection...

    As for His resurrection, there are several lines of evidence which make for a compelling case. Anyway, I thought this was an interesting one.

    The late jurisprudential prodigy and international statesman Sir Lionel Luckhoo (of The Guinness Book of World Records fame for his unprecedented 245 consecutive defense murder trial acquittals).

    He epitomized Christian enthusiasm and confidence in the strength of the case for the resurrection when he wrote, “I have spent more than 42 years as a defense trial lawyer appearing in many parts of the world and am still in active practice. I have been fortunate to secure a number of successes in jury trials and I say unequivocally the evidence for the Resurrection of Jesus Christ is so overwhelming that it compels acceptance by proof which leaves absolutely no room for doubt.”
     
    matt4000
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    Posted: Nov. 9, 2011 - 11:40 PM ET #1144

    Quantum Leap,
    You said "Let me ask you this: What kind of father of God would hide himself in this way?"

    Jehovah revealed himself over and over again throughout the Old Testament.

    Then, he went above and beyond to tell the people ALL throughout the Old Testament that he was going to come as the messiah to save the world, then fulfilled every prophecy in the Old Testament in Jesus Christ.

    There are many Old Testament prophecies about Jesus Christ. Some interpreters place the number of Messianic prophecies in the hundreds.

    Here are a few that are considered the clearest and most important concerning the Old Testament predicting the coming of Jesus Christ?


    Reply
    Quantum Leap,
    You said "Let me ask you this: What kind of father of God would hide himself in this way?"

    Jehovah revealed himself over and over again throughout the Old Testament.

    Then, he went above and beyond to tell the people ALL throughout the Old Testament that he was going to come as the messiah to save the world, then fulfilled every prophecy in the Old Testament in Jesus Christ.

    There are many Old Testament prophecies about Jesus Christ. Some interpreters place the number of Messianic prophecies in the hundreds.

    Here are a few that are considered the clearest and most important concerning the Old Testament predicting the coming of Jesus Christ?


     
    matt4000
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    Posted: Nov. 9, 2011 - 11:41 PM ET #1145

    Continued...

    Regarding Jesus’ birth—
    Isaiah 7:14: “Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.” Isaiah 9:6: “For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.” Micah 5:2: “But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from ancient times.”

    Reply
    Continued...

    Regarding Jesus’ birth—
    Isaiah 7:14: “Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.” Isaiah 9:6: “For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.” Micah 5:2: “But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from ancient times.”

     
    matt4000
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    Posted: Nov. 9, 2011 - 11:42 PM ET #1146

    Continued...

    Concerning Jesus' ministry and death—
    Zechariah 9:9: “Rejoice greatly, O Daughter of Zion! Shout, Daughter of Jerusalem! See, your king comes to you, righteous and having salvation, gentle and riding on a donkey, on a colt, the foal of a donkey.” Psalm 22:16-18: “Dogs have surrounded me; a band of evil men has encircled me, they have pierced my hands and my feet. I can count all my bones; people stare and gloat over me. They divide my garments among them and cast lots for my clothing.”
    Reply
    Continued...

    Concerning Jesus' ministry and death—
    Zechariah 9:9: “Rejoice greatly, O Daughter of Zion! Shout, Daughter of Jerusalem! See, your king comes to you, righteous and having salvation, gentle and riding on a donkey, on a colt, the foal of a donkey.” Psalm 22:16-18: “Dogs have surrounded me; a band of evil men has encircled me, they have pierced my hands and my feet. I can count all my bones; people stare and gloat over me. They divide my garments among them and cast lots for my clothing.”
     
    matt4000
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    Posted: Nov. 9, 2011 - 11:43 PM ET #1147

    Continued...

    The clearest prophecy about Jesus is the entire 53rd chapter of Isaiah.
    Isaiah 53:3-7 is especially unmistakable: “He was despised and rejected by men, a man of sorrows, and familiar with suffering. Like one from whom men hide their faces he was despised, and we esteemed him not. Surely he took up our infirmities and carried our sorrows, yet we considered him stricken by God, smitten by him, and afflicted. But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed. We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all. He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is silent, so he did not open his mouth.”

    Reply
    Continued...

    The clearest prophecy about Jesus is the entire 53rd chapter of Isaiah.
    Isaiah 53:3-7 is especially unmistakable: “He was despised and rejected by men, a man of sorrows, and familiar with suffering. Like one from whom men hide their faces he was despised, and we esteemed him not. Surely he took up our infirmities and carried our sorrows, yet we considered him stricken by God, smitten by him, and afflicted. But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed. We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all. He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is silent, so he did not open his mouth.”

     
    matt4000
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    Posted: Nov. 9, 2011 - 11:49 PM ET #1148

    Continued...

    The “seventy sevens” prophecy in Daniel chapter 9 predicted the precise date that Jesus, the Messiah, would be “cut off.”

    Isaiah 50:6 accurately describes the beating that Jesus endured.

    Zechariah 12:10 predicts the “piercing” of the Messiah, which occurred after Jesus died on the cross.

    Many more examples could be provided, but these will be suffice for now. The Old Testament most definitely prophesies the coming of Jesus as the Messiah.

    So, when You said "Let me ask you this: What kind of father of God would hide himself in this way?"

    I am unsure where you get this from?
    He Clearly and undoubtedly revealed himself all throughout history and throughout the Old Testament and He still does!!!



    Reply
    Continued...

    The “seventy sevens” prophecy in Daniel chapter 9 predicted the precise date that Jesus, the Messiah, would be “cut off.”

    Isaiah 50:6 accurately describes the beating that Jesus endured.

    Zechariah 12:10 predicts the “piercing” of the Messiah, which occurred after Jesus died on the cross.

    Many more examples could be provided, but these will be suffice for now. The Old Testament most definitely prophesies the coming of Jesus as the Messiah.

    So, when You said "Let me ask you this: What kind of father of God would hide himself in this way?"

    I am unsure where you get this from?
    He Clearly and undoubtedly revealed himself all throughout history and throughout the Old Testament and He still does!!!



     
    matt4000
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    Posted: Nov. 10, 2011 - 12:01 AM ET #1149

    Continued...

    Just in case you ask "What are the seventy sevens in Daniel 9:24-27" that I mentioned above?

    Daniel 9:24-27 is a key Biblical passage. It is the only Old Testament passage which refers to the Messiah as “Messiah.”

    Elsewhere He is called “Shiloh” (Genesis 49:10), the “Root of Jesse” (Isaiah 11:10), the “Righteous Branch” (Jeremiah 23:5), the “Prince of Peace” (Isaiah 9:6), etc. 

    But the name by which He is known best, “Messiah,” appears in only one passage: Daniel 9:24-27. Here is an excerpt from that passage:

    "Seventy sevens have been decreed for your people. . . . So you are to know and discern that from the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince there will be seven sevens and sixty-two sevens; it will be built again, with plaza and moat, even in times of distress. Then after the sixty-two sevens the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing, and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary.”


    Reply
    Continued...

    Just in case you ask "What are the seventy sevens in Daniel 9:24-27" that I mentioned above?

    Daniel 9:24-27 is a key Biblical passage. It is the only Old Testament passage which refers to the Messiah as “Messiah.”

    Elsewhere He is called “Shiloh” (Genesis 49:10), the “Root of Jesse” (Isaiah 11:10), the “Righteous Branch” (Jeremiah 23:5), the “Prince of Peace” (Isaiah 9:6), etc. 

    But the name by which He is known best, “Messiah,” appears in only one passage: Daniel 9:24-27. Here is an excerpt from that passage:

    "Seventy sevens have been decreed for your people. . . . So you are to know and discern that from the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince there will be seven sevens and sixty-two sevens; it will be built again, with plaza and moat, even in times of distress. Then after the sixty-two sevens the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing, and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary.”


     
     
    matt4000
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    Posted: Nov. 10, 2011 - 12:03 AM ET #1150

    Seventy sevens continued...

     Exactly what is meant by “seventy sevens”? The phrase by itself is ambiguous, but taken in context the meaning is clear. Daniel’s prayer in verses 3-19 of the chapter refers to the fulfillment of a specific seventy-year period, the seventy years of the Babylonian captivity (as prophesied by Jeremiah). Daniel received the seventy sevens prophecy in response to his prayer. The prophecy foretold a period of seven times seventy yet to come, or seventy seven-year periods. Seventy seven-year periods equals 490 years.

    The prophecy goes on to say that “from the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince there will be seven sevens (49) and sixty-two sevens (434). . . . Then after the sixty-two sevens the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing.”

    Nebuchadnezzar had Jerusalem dismantled around 587 BC after having to put down two rebellions there in less than 10 years. At the time this prophecy was given, Jerusalem still lay in ruins. According to the prophecy, from the decree to rebuild Jerusalem there would be seven seven-year periods and sixty-two more seven-year periods—or 483 years—until the Messiah would show up. After the culmination of the 62 seven-year periods, or after 483rd year, the Messiah would be cut off.

    Reply
    Seventy sevens continued...

     Exactly what is meant by “seventy sevens”? The phrase by itself is ambiguous, but taken in context the meaning is clear. Daniel’s prayer in verses 3-19 of the chapter refers to the fulfillment of a specific seventy-year period, the seventy years of the Babylonian captivity (as prophesied by Jeremiah). Daniel received the seventy sevens prophecy in response to his prayer. The prophecy foretold a period of seven times seventy yet to come, or seventy seven-year periods. Seventy seven-year periods equals 490 years.

    The prophecy goes on to say that “from the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince there will be seven sevens (49) and sixty-two sevens (434). . . . Then after the sixty-two sevens the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing.”

    Nebuchadnezzar had Jerusalem dismantled around 587 BC after having to put down two rebellions there in less than 10 years. At the time this prophecy was given, Jerusalem still lay in ruins. According to the prophecy, from the decree to rebuild Jerusalem there would be seven seven-year periods and sixty-two more seven-year periods—or 483 years—until the Messiah would show up. After the culmination of the 62 seven-year periods, or after 483rd year, the Messiah would be cut off.

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