George Floyd Trial

A. Blood drug and novel psychoactive substances screens:

"1. Fentanyl 11 ng/mL"

That's just the first few words of the "Toxicology" section. Also listed are norfentanyl, 4-ANPP, methamphetamine, cannabinoids, amphetamines, morphine and so on.

But the 11 nanograms per milliliter of fentanyl is rather important, inasmuch as the chief medical examiner called this "a fatal level of fentanyl under normal circumstances," saying, "deaths have been certified with levels of 3."

Three. But George Floyd went up to 11.

Layer by layer dissection of the anterior strap muscles of the neck discloses no areas of contusion or hemorrhage within the musculature. The thyroid cartilage and hyoid bone are intact. The larynx is lined by intact mucosa. The thyrois is symmetric and red-brown, without cystic or nodular change. The tongue is free of bite marks, hemorrhage, or other injuries. The cervical spinal column is palpably stable and free of hemorrhage.

All sais that if Mr. Floyd had been found dead in his home (or anywhere else) and there were no other contributing factors he would conclude it was an overdose death.

I think I got the gist of it.  It was an image and would not copy as a text.  But I think you get the point. I think you feel he was strangled.  It seems he was not strangled but overdosed due to a struggle and/or the excitement.  I think the cop mostly had his knee on a dead man.  The cop's knee did not kill the guy.

Is the guy a jerk -- again, it sure seems so.  But, again, he is not charged with being a jerk.

If the jury is impartial and follows the evidence and 'science' it will be hard to convict.

Granted, I do not have a TV and have not kept up in detail.  So, there be more emerging details.  But the report I read makes it very tricky to convict on what I think is a blatant case of overcharging someone for political reasons.

"Granted, I do not have a TV and have not kept up in detail."

Then STFU Raiders because you haven't a clue and your cop loving rhetoric STINKS and gives all us other Whites dudes a bad rap.

Witnesses together with recordings PROVE that a handcuffed George Floyd went totally limp at about 5.5 minutes but Officer Chauvin chose to provide full knee pressure for another 4 minutes resulting in Death by Asphyxia.

The paramedics testified Floyd "Was not breathing" when they arrived on the scene.  The Emergency room doctor testified that Floyd was DOA and believes the causation of death was asphyxia.  The Police Chief testified that Chauvin was WAY out of bounds using a knee choke hold that is NOT taught by the Minneapolis Police Department and totally beyond the scope of proper procedure for handling a handcuffed AND limp man.

And WTF do you know about fentanyl???  YOU are an Opiate connoisseur magnificent???  The human body creates a tolerance to any opiate so the more you take the more your body accepts and tolerates.  Floyd could probably dose 10x as much as any person consuming for the first time.

Bottom Line... WTF ever happened to "Serve & Protect"?  What we have now is Police across the USA that shoot first and ask questions later.  Police that think they are the Enforcers, Jury, and Judge over all Civilian Rights.

But, but, but he allegedly tried to pass a counterfeit $20 bill.  So what?  That's the FBI's job.  Not Chauvin's.  In fact if Chauvin had simply done his job as a Police Officer the FBI might have rounded up another half dozen clowns who were involved in this counterfeiting case.  AND half the USA would not have burned down because of this new race war caused by Chauvin.

@TheGoldenGoose

No idea what you mean.  If you only get your news from TV -- I feel sorry for you.  I can easily say you have no idea what you are talking about as well.  Since I have read the reports and you have not -- then, maybe, you do not know enough about this either!

Trust me -- I have dealt with enough bad cops.  Does not make them all automatically bad.  Just like the one semi driver that runs you off the road -- it does not make the other 99.9% bad.

If you are not a drug expert -- listen to those that are.  I for sure know more than you.  If you are not a coroner -- listen to one that is.  I am sure the 'witnesses' just saw the guy with his knee on his neck.  I, for sure, know more about reading these types of reports than you do.  They are not experts on anatomy -- just like you are not.

Read up on the way it was done and you will see how the windpipe and the blood vessels in the neck are not affected like they say.  If that was the case -- he would have passed out in seconds -- not minutes. 

Of course he was not breathing when the medics arrived -- he was dead and had been dead for quite some time.

@TheGoldenGoose

If you 'other white guys stink' then maybe you white guys should work on that.  I assume you are saying this because the cop was white.  If you study you will know we are way more apt to be killed by a black cop AND far more whites are killed by cops -- white or black -- than blacks. 

All of this mis/dis information is NOT coming from unbiased reporting.  So, again YOU are being bombarded by Liberal media with an agenda.

I would get your news from sources other than TV. 

First, the restraint used on George Floyd was not something Chauvin made up. The hold is called maximal restraint technique, and the officers involved received training in it.

This is not simply a matter of passing the buck to whomever authorized the technique or the training (though this is, of course, relevant to Chauvin’s legal defense). The point is that it’s reasonably well-understood in practice and it is understood not to typically cut off air or blood flow—it is not a chokehold, in contrast to, for example, the restraint that caused the death of Eric Garner. It is regularly applied without causing strangulation (see, for instance). This restraint technique therefore, when applied correctly, does not cause strangulation.

The Knee

We’ve already covered the fact that the autopsies produced no physical evidence that it did, but that’s not conclusive evidence either way. Let’s do our best to figure it out from the video. Take a look at this diagram:

The veins and arteries of the neck are on the front-side of the neck, as I’m sure you breath-play degenerates already well know (I kid, I kid). I encourage you to find them on your own neck to get a good sense of where they are–you’ll feel your pulse when you get it, and even light compression will leave you lightheaded in a few seconds. The windpipe is, of course, front and center.

Now look at George Floyd’s restained position, a still from this video:

Evidently, Chauvin could not possibly be applying direct pressure to Floyd’s windpipe or blood vessels from this position; his knee is towards the back of Floyd’s head (and you can check the video and see that it remains roughly in that position throughout).

Perhaps, then, the cause was indirect pressure against the pavement, as suggested by the private autopsy. But his head is nearly sideways against the ground, which means his windpipe was clear, no matter the force exerted by Chauvin’s knee. The blood vessels of the neck are fairly recessed, so it would be difficult to put pressure on them against a flat surface (you can also try this at home; you’ll find the jaw rather gets in the way). Moreover, pressure on the blood vessels of the neck causes unconsciousness in a few seconds rather than several minutes. Given the timeline, it’s fairly safe to say that we should be looking for asphyxiation, not cut off blood flow; and given the position, It doesn’t seem possible that Chauvin’s knee could have caused it.

If you’re with me so far, I’d just like you to take a moment and reflect that, even if Chauvin and the other officers were responsible for Floyd’s death because of the restraint position, if we have successfully established that the knee to his neck was not itself the cause, then a whole lot of people have been lying to you for nearly a year about an event of major political import. The “clear, obvious” conclusion, “what we all saw”, is false, and the media establishment has whipped the public into a frenzy based on a falsehood, even if you only grant me this partial point. If you take from this post nothing more than that, then I will be more than satisfied.

The knee to Floyd’s neck is not the only possible mechanism by which the officers could have caused his death, however, so let’s move on.

Not the Knee

The private autopsy, among others, cites also pressure to Floyd’s chest and the position in which he was held as contributing factors. I suspect, though this is more a matter of literary criticism than anything, that the independent examiners stressed both neck and back because they know the neck hypothesis is very weak but they don’t want to abandon it for the rhetorical power of the associated image.

Anyway, this section is about compressive and positional asphyxia. Compressive asphyxia refers to limitation on breathing from pressure applied to the chest, thus preventing the diaphragm from expanding. The argument would be that the officers’ pressure on Floyd’s back contributed to his death in this way. Positional asphyxia, in contrast, is when breathing is limited by position alone, with no added weight. Both are potentially relevant here.

Having looked at the video many times over, I’m still not entirely sure where Chauvin’s other knee was with respect to Floyd. Seems like it could be on his back, but also on his shoulder or arm.

But let’s assume the possibility that Chauvin had his right knee where it might have compressed Floyd’s chest area.

Looking over case reports of compressive asphyxia, mostly they’re events like fatal crowd disasters, where there is the accumulated pressure of sometimes hundreds of people, or people who get stuck under heavy equipment, or wedged in a chimney or the like. And then you have these cases that are almost exclusively about law enforcement in which supposedly the weight of a single person had the same effect.

So, at most, you can say that the restraint or compression added to a preexisting condition. Or, as I am arguing, there was one central condition that overwhelmingly caused his difficulty breathing, starting before he was on the ground, and eventually killing him, and the restraint, if it had any effect at all, was minor and most likely not a determinant contributing factor.

There is, however, still one major sticking point that many, rightly, point to.

The Coincidence

This was the main sticking point for me too. I initially thought that, realistically, it couldn’t have been just the drugs, because it would have been a hell of a coincidence for Floyd to have died right then, in that window of a few minutes, right when he happened to be restrained.

This is also related to the main contention of this video, which is that George Floyd was not showing signs of a fentanyl overdose as he interacted with police officers before being restrained–not of an advanced fentanyl overdose, anyway, in which he would be largely unresponsive, and not agitated as he was.

These would indeed be very serious problems for my case here–unless George Floyd happened to ingest his fatal dose of fentanyl just as police were approaching him, say, in an attempt to hide evidence, which would have killed him in more or less the time it took him to die.

The evidence for this is circumstantial, but non non-existent. 

And then there’s the fact that he had done the same thing before, a year previous, swallowing percocet to hide it from the police.

If you still think that’s a reach, consider the situation as we understand it. From his altered behavior during the encounter, we know Floyd was high. From the tox report, we known on what. We know he saw the police coming and reacted to it. The hurdle here is whether he had drugs with him in the car–police claim that he did–and whether he swallowed them to hide the incriminating stash as the police approached (or part of it, anyway).

Given the accumulated evidence, this seems like the most likely sequence of events.

All of that was from a simple writeup. There are more that are way more detailed and far more technical.

But I think you can get the main points from the article above. 

So, it is not as clear a case of murder -- as the Liberal media with an agenda would have you believe.

S T O P

You don't get to run off 10 posts of complete BS without somebody (in this case ME) being able to respond.  That is not a conversation.  That is an irresponsible takeover of the Thread.  Do it again and you'll be in the Penalty Box looking out.  I am in the process of refuting your erroneous claims and will respond in about 15 minutes if not distracted by other business.  So just keep your panties from getting twisted up and STAND BY.

Nah   it is copying of one of the reports --- had to break it up instead of put on one post -- too long.  If I just post the link -- most folks are too lazy to go read it.  Of course if you have a short attention span you might want to just catch the update on TV tonight. 

Refute away -- not my erroneous autopsy.  I am just quoting what it said.

Near as I know there is not a limit on amount of posts.  Especially when there is a limit of words per post and you want to quote more than that amount.

Let me respond to you Fact by Fact.

Fact #1... I cut the TV media cable over three years ago.  $300 a month for Fox News or CNN to tell me how to think or act?  No thank you.  My smart phone and my desktop give me streaming sports and news 24/7 from around the world.  I get my news from several different sources.  So that's the first of your erroneous assumptions.

Nope--  I have heard you say that many times!  That was tongue-in-cheek to you.  We have been over this before  -- when I ask you exactly where you get it?  The same Liberal sources on smart phone?  You never were specific on this.

But nonetheless, carry on.

My news sources are no secret.  I'll give them out (AGAIN) when I'm finished addressing your previous erroneous assumptions.  Nice try on the deflection but I'm sticking to the facts.

Fact #2...  This THICK BLUE LINE.  You say 99.9% of cops are good?  YOU WISH!!!  A good cop IS NOT a good cop if he is unwilling to cross that THICK BLUE LINE.  The three former Minneapolis officers, Tou Thao, Thomas Lane and J. Alexander Kueng, were charged with aiding and abetting murder and aiding and abetting manslaughter.  Maybe, just maybe, this will convince the good cops to avoid bad cops like Chauvin and DO THE RIGHT THING.

Where did I say 99.9% of cops were good?  I did not.  Even if I did--it would be hyperbole to make a point.  Point being -- overwhelming majority of cops are good.  I have already stated I have dealt with many bad cops.  I did say this about truckers -- but the point is the same.

Not deflection.  Addressing your erroneous points is all.  Try to stay caught up.

So far, all of my issues with this have been backed up by facts -- not some random thoughts about good or bad cops and Blue Lines. 

I only was addressing the guy's points on the murder charge and whether he should be convicted or not.

He said he was not guilty of murder but should still be charged.  That is faulty rationale.  That is my overarching point.  Really could care less about the rest of it.

@TheGoldenGoose

 I do not have an issue with you.  I usually agree with most of your points.  I know you have had issues with cops before.  I would just wonder if this would prejudice you is all.  I for sure know there are bad cops.

@Raiders22

 Damned right I have issues with Police.  They lie because they are TRAINED to coerce information from civilians.  They constantly abuse and overstep boundaries when dealing with the public.  Have you ever been harassed or outright abused by a cop?  I have.  Was grabbed by my balls WHILE HANDCUFFED.  Simply because I told the Officer I would not answer any more questions, I was invoking my 5th Amendment Rights, and wanted my attorney.  I immediately filed a complaint against this tyrant cop.  They began their "internal investigation" where I gave a deposition to the Lieutenant.  No surprise that the cop and his partner completely denied any wrongdoing and their body cameras were mysteriously "unavailable".  The Police Chief eventually cleared these thugs of any wrongdoing and issued me a certified letter stating that after full review he finds that "these events never occurred".  FUKK THE POLICE!!!

Minneapolis Police Chief Medaria Arradondo was a star witness for the prosecution Monday at the trial of a former officer charged with killing George Floyd, repeating the criticism he levied after Floyd’s death.  Arradondo, the city’s first Black chief, fired Derek Chauvin and three other officers the day after Floyd died, and soon afterward labelled it “murder.” He testified Monday that Chauvin’s actions were counter to his training and to department values.

The Minneapolis police chief testified Monday that now-fired Officer Derek Chauvin violated departmental policy — and went against “our principles and the values that we have” — in pressing his knee on George Floyd’s neck and keeping him down after Floyd had stopped resisting and was in distress.

Continuing to kneel on Floyd’s neck once he was handcuffed behind his back and lying on his stomach was “in no way, shape or form” part of department policy or training, “and it is certainly not part of our ethics or our values,” Police Chief Medaria Arradondo said on Day Six of Chauvin’s murder trial.

A use of force trainer for the Minneapolis Police Department testified in the Derek Chauvin trial Tuesday that officers should use the least amount of force necessary to restrain a suspect and avoid placing pressure on their neck.

Lt. Johnny Mercil added that an officer should stop kneeling on a suspect once they are handcuffed and no longer resisting. Several other members of the department have testified so far, including Chief Medaria Arradondo, who said Monday that Chauvin violated police policy, training and ethics when he knelt on George Floyd’s neck.

Other Minneapolis police trainers as well as a use of force expert from the Los Angeles Police Department also testified Tuesday.

When shown a photo of Chauvin kneeling on Floyd’s neck, Mercil said that is not a Minneapolis police trained neck restraint. When asked by prosecutors if the force would be authorized if the subject was under control and handcuffed, Mercil said, “I would say no.”

Mercil, who trains Minneapolis police on use of force, said officers should use the least amount of force necessary to control someone, and once they get control, they should de-escalate their restraint.

Mercil said neck restraints can only be used if an individual is actively resisting or actively aggressive, depending on the type of restraint used. They cannot be used if they are passively resisting.

The sanctity of life is important in regards to use of force, Mercil said, and the force used should be reasonable. Mercil added that the head and neck are areas of the body more prone to injury, and that officers are trained to use caution when applying force there.